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Totterman
Guest
Jesus,our Lords peace be whit You.
First,after a TV-program here in Finland that wos against the gay-people have lead to the fact that since that program,I think it came out on thursday,over 4.000 people have left the Lutherian Church. And I wont comment on that.
Gay Mass,thoughts? As a catholic You are of course free to make Your own choises and do as You want. God gave us the freedom to ask,to think,and to make our own choises,and my thoughts are the same as the Catholic Churc teaches.
The question about gays are a topic the Church,and not only the Catholic Church must face,how to deal whit it,is another question,and I strongly advice all readers to follow the Church in all theese matters. As Catholics we must follow the Church,and as believers we must pray for all gays that they will be able to stay in celibacy,and love them as we must love all people. I see gays as brothers and sisters in Christ,(I am not gay)and therefore they need our help to not sin. Why some people are interested in others of same sex as them we realy don’t know why,and as in so many things,we did not need to know. I advice You to pray for them,and follow the Church also in this matter.
First,after a TV-program here in Finland that wos against the gay-people have lead to the fact that since that program,I think it came out on thursday,over 4.000 people have left the Lutherian Church. And I wont comment on that.
Gay Mass,thoughts? As a catholic You are of course free to make Your own choises and do as You want. God gave us the freedom to ask,to think,and to make our own choises,and my thoughts are the same as the Catholic Churc teaches.
The question about gays are a topic the Church,and not only the Catholic Church must face,how to deal whit it,is another question,and I strongly advice all readers to follow the Church in all theese matters. As Catholics we must follow the Church,and as believers we must pray for all gays that they will be able to stay in celibacy,and love them as we must love all people. I see gays as brothers and sisters in Christ,(I am not gay)and therefore they need our help to not sin. Why some people are interested in others of same sex as them we realy don’t know why,and as in so many things,we did not need to know. I advice You to pray for them,and follow the Church also in this matter.
po18guy
Well-known member
Amen!
Have you converted from Lutheran, or have you always been Catholic?
po18guy
Well-known member
The Seattle Archdiocese had this same problem in the 1980s. It went along until word of it reached Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. Due to numerous and profound problems within the Diocese, Seattle Archbishop Hunthausen was stripped of his powers and Archbishop Donald Wuerl was sent in to shepherd the Diocese. And, just as His Holiness has recently sent Seattle a blessed new Archbishop, he will certainly take action where needed in Westminster.
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diggerdomer
Guest
How does this relate to this category of Moral Theology? That’s my thought.
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SunnaB16
Guest
The category of Immoral Theology doesn`t exist, as yet.
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littletherese3
Guest
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Adam1986
Guest
I don’t see anything wrong with that at all. There’s nothing wrong with having a Mass dedicated to LGBTQ. If anything it is a GREAT thing LGBTQ people to see other people like themselves celebrating Mass and the Catholic faith.
There’s nothing wrong with being gay according to the Catholic Church only acting on it. So how can it be scandal if no one is promoting sex? Just being who they are and how God made them. I think it’s a great thing, I hope more churches do this.
I am a gay man myself, for what it’s worth.
There’s nothing wrong with being gay according to the Catholic Church only acting on it. So how can it be scandal if no one is promoting sex? Just being who they are and how God made them. I think it’s a great thing, I hope more churches do this.
I am a gay man myself, for what it’s worth.
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PaulinVA
Guest
I don’t see how one can have a dedicated Mass for the gay community and still maintain Catholic theology/doctrine.
Someone who is gay and chaste probably wouldn’t identify with this, would they? This Mass is obviously for people living the gay lifestyle, not the Catholic lifestyle. They are, at their roots, incompatible.
You can have Same Sex Attraction and live a chaste, virtuous, exemplary life. However, if you jump in and wallow in the homosexual lifestyle, that is rejecting Catholic teaching.
Someone who is gay and chaste probably wouldn’t identify with this, would they? This Mass is obviously for people living the gay lifestyle, not the Catholic lifestyle. They are, at their roots, incompatible.
You can have Same Sex Attraction and live a chaste, virtuous, exemplary life. However, if you jump in and wallow in the homosexual lifestyle, that is rejecting Catholic teaching.
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duffyk4
Guest
People go to mass to celebrate their identity as Catholics, not to celebrate their sexual orientation. Such divisions can only lead to trouble.
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3DOCTORS
Guest
But couldn’t a Courage priest-spiritual director celebrate a private Mass for those in the support group, since Courage is a church-approved group that provides help and healing for those with same-sex attraction who are committed to living according to Church teaching?
Further, for those Courage members who would be willing, I’d even like to see a Mass where they are recognized with some kind of a blessing, so that they didn’t feel isolated from the Body of Christ like lepers. I have friends with same-sex attraction, and feeling they were alone with their problem was a factor in their turning to the “gay community” where they would be “accepted.” This is tragic.
Further, for those Courage members who would be willing, I’d even like to see a Mass where they are recognized with some kind of a blessing, so that they didn’t feel isolated from the Body of Christ like lepers. I have friends with same-sex attraction, and feeling they were alone with their problem was a factor in their turning to the “gay community” where they would be “accepted.” This is tragic.
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Adam1986
Guest
Why wouldn’t someone who is gay and chaste identify with it? People who are a certain ethnicity sometimes go to a Mass that is dedicated to who they are. Why can’t a chaste Catholic except who they are and go to a Mass that shows them A LOT of other Catholics who are also chaste. It would help them not have sex because it would show them that they are not alone in this.
You can’t just say that anyone who is gay and accepts and embraces who they are are a rutting pig. There are some completely chaste gay men and women.
A Catholic Mass is not wallowing in the homosexual lifestyle. It is showing a side of Catholicism that is open and accepting.
A homosexual Mass is a great thing.
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Adam1986
Guest
It’s not celebrating their sexual orientation because it is a MASS. It is celebrating who they are and the Catholic Church says it’s perfectly fine to be gay. Would you say it’s wrong for an Italian to go to an Italian Mass?
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Adam1986
Guest
I agree with what you are saying except for one thing, why does it need to be a private Mass? You said you don’t want gay people to feel like lepers, but isn’t not publicizing a gay Mass doing the same thing. Making them feel less adequate?
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3DOCTORS
Guest
“Perfectly fine to be gay” – I think what you are trying to say is that it is no sin to have SSA (same-sex attraction) if you are not acting on it. Am I interpreting your words correctly?
But “perfectly fine” – not exactly. Not trying to split hairs here. It is more of an affliction, a cross, like alcoholism. This is not a popular view, but it is Church teaching. And we do want to help alcoholics, but not by buying them a bottle of booze.
So again, to have a Mass that would celebrate “gayness” itself wouldn’t work – but to have a Mass to provide spiritual strength for those with SSA living chastely, and recognizing them as our brothers and sisters in Christ despite their affliction – that is more accurate and truthful.
It may not happen in the near future given all the controversy of this issue, but it’d be nice if the day would come. And again, say there was a Courage retreat – they’d have Mass for the participants, I would think. Just like if there were a similar retreat, with Mass offered, for recovering alcoholics.
But again, we run into the difficulty – not a moral difficulty, but a practical one. Many alcoholics and many with SSA have had to hide even if they are no longer practicing the sinful behavior, due to stigma. So they might be reluctant to be the focus of attention among a majority who don’t have their affliction. It depends on the individual.
Having SSA is not, therefore, the same as belonging to an ethnic or national group; those are cultural. Having SSA is more unique.
Check out the Courage website and Fr. John Harvey’s books for further clarification.
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Dale_M
Guest
You cited a news article from two years ago. Do you have any thoughts you care to share with us? I am curious why you bring it up now, without comment.
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cjforJesus
Guest
The Catholic Church thus teaches: “Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2357).
However, the Church also acknowledges that "[homosexuality’s] psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. . . . The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition.
“Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection” (CCC 2357– 2359).
Paul comfortingly reminds us, "No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape.
We pray for them and love them just as anyone else,but setting them apart by a specific title “Gay mass” just further stigmatizes in my opinion.
However, the Church also acknowledges that "[homosexuality’s] psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. . . . The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition.
“Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection” (CCC 2357– 2359).
Paul comfortingly reminds us, "No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape.
We pray for them and love them just as anyone else,but setting them apart by a specific title “Gay mass” just further stigmatizes in my opinion.
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InSearchofGrace
Guest
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3DOCTORS
Guest
Thanks – I had to learn a lot about the topic in order to minister to some friends. Through prayers of many, some folks I know have returned to the Faith from active gay lifestyles. The persons with SSA that I’m friends with know where I stand. They know that as a single heterosexual person I accept the need to practice chastity. They also know I care about them and am doing my best to “speak the truth in love.”
Having suffered my own emotional/mental difficulties, I also relate to the SSA persons’ feelings of isolation. I know how lonely it can feel in church when you feel like everybody else “has it together” and they might run away screaming if you opened your heart to them.
So I think God uses me now & then as a “wounded healer” – at least, that’s what I try to be. :console:
Having suffered my own emotional/mental difficulties, I also relate to the SSA persons’ feelings of isolation. I know how lonely it can feel in church when you feel like everybody else “has it together” and they might run away screaming if you opened your heart to them.
So I think God uses me now & then as a “wounded healer” – at least, that’s what I try to be. :console:
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Corki
Guest
No, because there is nothing disordered about anyone’s ethnicity.
The Church does not say “it’s perfectly fine to be gay”. She says that homosexual inclinations are objectively disordered.
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