Gay rights activists protest N. California mall

[aprilfloyd]

Have you ever taken an course in Church History?

Which Church?

 

[fix]

This is my second day on here and this is my first post. I have read this thread through from the beginning and I cannot believe some of the comments; people referring to gay and lesbian people as a parasite on society, a cancer, an evil, a threat, people they don’t want their children exposed to… basically I feel I am reading a breading ground for hate and it is very disturbing! I am shocked!

I am by no means any kind of expert, I would consider myself a lay person. I go to Church and I always take away the message of love and peace. I try not to judge people as I do not have the right. I sit here and think, ‘what would Jesus think of these comments?’ I do not recall anywhere in the Bible where Jesus preaches hate? Where he condemns homosexuality? His was a message of love and I have seen very little of that message through this thread.

What did our Lord say about those who would lead children into sin?

 

[bellasbane]

Which Church?

Catholic Church - since that is the one you claim to have been raised in and don’t understand.

 

[aprilfloyd]

You have to wonder just how much authority comes from your parliamentary system within the context of the EU. Gay people cannot marry, marriage is between a man and a woman.

I hear what you are saying, but that is a Catholic view on marriage, not a legal one. It will be enacted law as it is in other countries and gay people will marry. The religious definition may be narrow, but it won’t change anything.

 

[bellasbane]

What did our Lord say about those who would lead children into sin?

Respecting Human Dignity

The commission of the Church to preach the Good News to all people in every land points to the fundamental dignity possessed by each person as created by God. God has created every human person out of love and wishes to grant him or her eternal life in the communion of the Trinity. All people are created in the image and likeness of God and thus possess an innate human dignity that must be acknowledged and respected.

In keeping with this conviction, the Church teaches that persons with a homosexual inclination “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” We recognize that these persons have been, and often continue to be, objects of scorn, hatred, and even violence in some sectors of our society. Sometimes this hatred is manifested clearly; other times, it is masked and gives rise to more disguised forms of hatred. “It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs.”

Those who would minister in the name of the Church must in no way contribute to such injustice. They should prayerfully examine their own hearts in order to discern any thoughts or feelings that might stand in need of purification. Those who minister are also called to growth in holiness. In fact, the work of spreading the Good News involves an ever-increasing love for those to whom one is ministering by calling them to the truth of Jesus Christ.

usccb.org/issues-and-acti…ation-2006.pdf

 

[GaryTaylor]

Hi Gary,

I don’t think your are thinking this through. Natural Selection has ensured that homosexuality survives; it is part of the human species. With all respect, you can’t change that. Homosexuals don’t live separately as a group. That is illogical, as they would not survive. To suggest that there must be an example of ‘homosexual culture’ living independently is to misunderstand the fundamentals of evolution.

Hi aprilfloyd

Part of would be correct, contingent on, not a separate entity. Natural Selection has ensured many aspects of behavior will indeed continue to be around. None however distract from the main objective which is reproduction and life.

A. the sanctity and preservation of life must be the first priority upheld and always

B. anything contrary to A doesn’t change A nor can it. from this perspective we can address point B with responsible love and concern, which doesn’t mean to elevate a contingent to the level of the priority. Exactly why the founding fathers said; “Life, then Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” So as to not ever confuse the order.

 

[Tigg]

Yeah.

It’s difficult to convince a narcissistic personality whose entire being is defined by their enslavement to their sexual perversion that they may… have a problem.

Funny that.

It must be my perverse nature, but I am immensely enjoying your acerbic posts, of course I’m also entertained by sarcasm!
:tiphat:

 

[fix]

Respecting Human Dignity

The commission of the Church to preach the Good News to all people in every land points to the fundamental dignity possessed by each person as created by God. God has created every human person out of love and wishes to grant him or her eternal life in the communion of the Trinity. All people are created in the image and likeness of God and thus possess an innate human dignity that must be acknowledged and respected.

In keeping with this conviction, the Church teaches that persons with a homosexual inclination “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” We recognize that these persons have been, and often continue to be, objects of scorn, hatred, and even violence in some sectors of our society. Sometimes this hatred is manifested clearly; other times, it is masked and gives rise to more disguised forms of hatred. “It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs.”

Those who would minister in the name of the Church must in no way contribute to such injustice. They should prayerfully examine their own hearts in order to discern any thoughts or feelings that might stand in need of purification. Those who minister are also called to growth in holiness. In fact, the work of spreading the Good News involves an ever-increasing love for those to whom one is ministering by calling them to the truth of Jesus Christ.

usccb.org/issues-and-acti…ation-2006.pdf

How does that answer my question?

 

[JackyB]

I hear what you are saying, but that is a Catholic view on marriage, not a legal one. It will be enacted law as it is in other countries and gay people will marry. The religious definition may be narrow, but it won’t change anything.

Not just a Catholic view. It hasn’t been enacted yet, who knows what can happen. There is something very personal about this thread and you I do hope it can be resolved in your own heart, just never stop looking in the right places.

 

[bellasbane]

It must be my perverse nature, but I am immensely enjoying your acerbic posts, of course I’m also entertained by sarcasm!

   :tiphat:

How do you feel about this post?

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

It is allowed as part of the act of love within marriage.

Do you agree with Cor Cordis’ interpretation of this passage in the CCC?

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

And based on your expertise and vast clinical experience in this field, you are comfortable pointing that out to the good doctor based on these articles.I see.

I certainly am comfortable point that out and his contention that there is a vast conspiracy to hide what he regards as the “truth” of the matter is utter nonsense.

Yeah. It’s difficult to convince a narcissistic personality whose entire being is defined by their enslavement to their sexual perversion that they may… have a problem. Funny that.

Case in point.

 

[bellasbane]

How does that answer my question?

It sets a standard of conduct for how Catholics should behave towards homosexuals that takes the entire Gospel into consideration and not just one cherry-picked passage.

What did our Lord say about those who would lead children into sin?

You asked how we should deal with the person “those who would lead” - this is how we should deal with the person - that is, unless you think you know more than the Bishops.

 

[fix]

It sets a standard of conduct for how Catholics should behave towards homosexuals that takes the entire Gospel into consideration and not just one cherry-picked passage.

You are implying people here are acting wrongly. I see arguments against the “gay” agenda. That is not uncharitable.

You asked how we should deal with the person “those who would lead” - this is how we should deal with the person - that is, unless you think you know more than the Bishops.

I asked what Jesus said. Do you disagree with Him? The quote from the Bishops is fine. I just do not see why you posted it?

 

[fix]

It sets a standard of conduct for how Catholics should behave towards homosexuals that takes the entire Gospel into consideration and not just one cherry-picked passage.

You asked how we should deal with the person “those who would lead” - this is how we should deal with the person - that is, unless you think you know more than the Bishops.

Just for completeness sake:

The movement within the Church, which takes the form of pressure groups of various names and sizes, attempts to give the impression that it represents all homosexual persons who are Catholics. As a matter of fact, its membership is by and large restricted to those who either ignore the teaching of the Church or seek somehow to undermine it. It brings together under the aegis of Catholicism homosexual persons who have no intention of abandoning their homosexual behaviour. One tactic used is to protest that any and all criticism of or reservations about homosexual people, their activity and lifestyle, are simply diverse forms of unjust discrimination.

There is an effort in some countries to manipulate the Church by gaining the often well-intentioned support of her pastors with a view to changing civil-statutes and laws. This is done in order to conform to these pressure groups’ concept that homosexuality is at least a completely harmless, if not an entirely good, thing. Even when the practice of homosexuality may seriously threaten the lives and well-being of a large number of people, its advocates remain undeterred and refuse to consider the magnitude of the risks involved.

What, then, are homosexual persons to do who seek to follow the Lord? Fundamentally, they are called to enact the will of God in their life by joining whatever sufferings and difficulties they experience in virtue of their condition to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross. That Cross, for the believer, is a fruitful sacrifice since from that death come life and redemption. While any call to carry the cross or to understand a Christian’s suffering in this way will predictably be met with bitter ridicule by some, it should be remembered that this is the way to eternal life for all who follow Christ.

It is, in effect, none other than the teaching of Paul the Apostle to the Galatians when he says that the Spirit produces in the lives of the faithful “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, trustfulness, gentleness and self-control” (5:22) and further (v. 24), “You cannot belong to Christ unless you crucify all self-indulgent passions and desires.”

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

 

[Lochias]

i am not bigoted towards catholicism - i don’t understand it

I propose, despite your Catholic upbringing, that you are not even attempting to understand the Church, or why it teaches what it teaches, but are instead giving in to emotional knee-jerk reactions about how you “feel” things should go.

You’ve been here for a while, and had a lot of discussion here with a lot of people, and all you ever do is tell us that we’re wrong, and why we’re wrong.

Understand involves listening.

 

[PRmerger]

I was not suggesting that this has been formally studied.

Fair enough.

Maybe it has.

I doubt it. How* would* one study parents’ attempt to raise a child heterosexual? What criteria would one use?

But let’s try realism for a moment. Until quite recently, that is until the 1970’s and later, there were very strong social forces encouraging heterosexuality and marriage. Those forces still exist today, to a lesser degree. For the most part, it is much easier in our society to live happily and be accepted, if one is straight and married, though this is indeed changing.

True, this.

Your comment raises the question in my mind: have DH and I been tacitly or overtly attempting to raise our daughters heterosexual?

My initial reaction is: nope.

And it raises the question: how in the world would we have done that anyway? Would exposing them to homosexual friends be considered attempting to raise them homosexual? And what studies show that this is a criterion for raising homosexual children? What about making them read books like, “I Have 2 Mommys”? Is there any evidence that that is a factor in raising homosexual children?

 

[bellasbane]

You are implying people here are acting wrongly. I see arguments against the “gay” agenda. That is not uncharitable.

I am implying nothing other than that we should all examine our own conscience in light of what the Bishops have to say about how Catholics should conduct themselves with respect to individuals who are homosexual.

Your question was not about an “agenda” it was about people. Had your question been about an agenda then what I posted would not have applied.

I asked what Jesus said. Do you disagree with Him? The quote from the Bishops is fine. I just do not see why you posted it?

Jesus said nothing about how we are to behave towards homosexuals in particular. However, the Bishops are the successors of Christ’s apostles and this is how they choose to “fill in the gap”. Are you suggesting we should ignore them and “fill in the gap” ourselves?

 

[aprilfloyd]

:doh2:

 

[PRmerger]

Why can’t the Catholic Church clean up its own house, even after decades and an entire papacy? It has the absolute authority to do so, but seems to be paralysed in some sort of turpitude. Nobody seems to be able to answer that question.

What, exactly, are you proposing? How would the CC “clean up its own house”? What would that look like to you, especially keeping in mind that from her earliest days there were sinners among the shepherds? Great sinners, indeed.

 

[aprilfloyd]

:doh2:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Iqem_qOclwk/TOeeWQOxTMI/AAAAAAAAC4k/9CYVHZ2pENE/s1600/miracle.gif