Gay rights activists protest N. California mall

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I am implying nothing other than that we should all examine our own conscience in light of what the Bishops have to say about how Catholics should conduct themselves with respect to individuals who are homosexual.

Your question was not about an “agenda” it was about people. Had your question been about an agenda then what I posted would not have applied.

Jesus said nothing about how we are to behave towards homosexuals in particular. However, the Bishops are the successors of Christ’s apostles and this is how they choose to “fill in the gap”. Are you suggesting we should ignore them and “fill in the gap” ourselves?
You are setting up straw men. No one is interested in mistreating anyone. My point is calling others uncharitable is wrong when it is based not in truth. If someone has said something wrong then they should be called on it, but the poster I responded to made broad accusations without any proof.

False charges are wrong and quoting the bishops is only helpful when you have proof people are acting wrongly otherwise you contribute to the incorrect judgment that is going on.

I also posted a document from tha Vatican that clearly shows people ought not make these charges of unjust discrimination when homosexual issues arise and are criticized.
 
I think you would be best served by taking some logic classes in the future, because your reasoning skills are weak. I say hat with all Christian charity. These classical subjects are no longer taught, and it is a shame. As a society, we are dumb and becoming dumber by the minute.
 
“At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts. Let’s not be naive, we’re not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.”
If a poster here said this would people call him/her uncharitable?
 
Not just a Catholic view. It hasn’t been enacted yet, who knows what can happen. There is something very personal about this thread and you I do hope it can be resolved in your own heart, just never stop looking in the right places.
It has been enacted in many countries.
 
I am sorry. I don’t quite understand your point. Mine was that what started as expanding womens’ rights in society and marriage lead inexorably to the end of legal differences based on gender in civil marriage under the law. This is what I meant by a slippery slope. Once that progression was complete, then it became a foregone conclusion that one may not under the US Constitution discriminate based on gender to grant a marriage license. It is indeed a slippery slope, and it took about a century to slide down it this far.
Granting women rights does not validate an inherently dysfunctional action that is intrinsically contrary to their natural design.

However, ignoring the self-evident differences of gender based solely on a chosen dysfunctional action that is overtly contrary to our natural design and then sanctioning state recognition and coerced societal validation specifically based on that intrinsically disordered action and granting it equal statues to the natural paradigm of marriage, changes all the objective standards of every socially acceptable union.

Does it not?

Gay “marriage” by it’s very nature, IS based on an intrinsically disordered action. You cannot give it equal legal status on par with the heterosexual union of marriage without hijacking and thus bastardizing the entire concept of morally acceptable unions by any and all standards.

How do you deny the incest union?

By what objective moral standard?

And when the psychological parameters of “maturity” and adulthood" have been redefined (and they’re already in the process) how do you deny the pederast his “rightful” expression of “love”? Who are you to stand in the way of progress?

And how about polyamory (group marriages)?

By what moral objection do you deny them their rights?

And since disordered desires redefined as the right to express “love” is the new amoral standard, how can you possibly deny the person who wishes to express their “love” for animals?

Should “loving” your pet by illegal?

Can the animal not derive pleasure (love) from it? Define “love”.

Is it really against the animals will?

Don’t we subject animals to harmful things against their will on a daily basis?

Does it matter that the animal isn’t human? Why should that get in the way of the human from being formally granted his or her right to express their “love”?

By what objective moral standard do you ignore our natural design and human nature to validate homosexual actions that cannot equally be applied to many other unnatural unions based on their disordered attractions?

More so yet, how can you possibly prevent it from being applied?

You’re simply distorting the concept of the “slippery slope” by realigning and irrationally comparing it to other healthy societal progression that are based on the intrinsically natural advancement of recognized natural rights that are NOT contrary to the inherent goodness of our ordered design. And in doing so you are misapplying the amoral standard of “progression for progression’s sake” to any and all changes no matter how dysfunctional and immoral their intrinsic actions are.

And what’s more, you are validating the immoral actions of same-sex unions by applying the dysfunctional standards of broken heterosexual unions as the objective moral norm. You’re simply pointing out socially acceptable dysfunction to validate an intrinsically disordered dysfunction.

By misapplying the objective standards of the slippery slope argument, you have already (inadvertently) displayed the inherently unnatural progression that gay unions will have on all of society.

Since you are comparing a disordered action to naturally ordered actions and calling it a natural "right, what prevents other unnatural actions from being deemed “natural” as well?
 
Masturbation is definitely NOT allowed under any circumstances. Foreplay with your husband or wife is OK, but it should not be self stimulating and serve as an end in itself.

In the eye’s of the Church, autosexuality is just as bad as homosexuality.
I never stated that it should be used as an end in itself. But rather, it is morally acceptable as part of the intimate expressions of love between husband and wife as long as the end result is intercourse.
 
Just for completeness sake:
The movement within the Church, which takes the form of pressure groups of various names and sizes, attempts to give the impression that it represents all homosexual persons who are Catholics. As a matter of fact, its membership is by and large restricted to those who either ignore the teaching of the Church or seek somehow to undermine it. It brings together under the aegis of Catholicism homosexual persons who have no intention of abandoning their homosexual behaviour. One tactic used is to protest that any and all criticism of or reservations about homosexual people, their activity and lifestyle, are simply diverse forms of unjust discrimination.
One tactic used is to protest that any and all criticism of or reservations about homosexual people, their activity and lifestyle, are simply diverse forms of unjust discrimination.

This isn’t happening on this thread. If you read through it, you’ll see plenty of people freely expressing criticism of the “gay agenda”.
 
One tactic used is to protest that any and all criticism of or reservations about homosexual people, their activity and lifestyle, are simply diverse forms of unjust discrimination.

This isn’t happening on this thread. If you read through it, you’ll see plenty of people freely expressing criticism of the “gay agenda”.
What exactly is your complaint?
 
I never stated that it should be used as an end in itself. But rather, it is morally acceptable as part of the intimate expressions of love between husband and wife as long as the end result is intercourse.
Self stimulation is not an expression of love. Sorry!

Masturbation is not the same as foreplay.
 
What is your complaint?
Again, I responded to a poster who said she was reading hateful things here and she indicated Jesus never mentioned homosexuality so that it may not be sinful. I would like to know what exactly is hateful here and acknowledgement that Jesus said we ought not lead others into sin including by rationalizing homosexual acts as moral and licit.
 
Again, I responded to a poster who said she was reading hateful things here and she indicated Jesus never mentioned homosexuality so that it may not be sinful. I would like to know what exactly is hateful here and acknowledgement that Jesus said we ought not lead others into sin including by rationalizing homosexual acts as moral and licit.
She’s right. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality. However, the Church has had a lot to say about it and that’s what matters. This thread is about what the Church has to say. What it has to say about homosexuality, the homosexual agenda, and how Catholics should behave so as to not undermine the dignity of people with homosexual tendencies.

If you would like to know exactly what she found hateful here, why don’t you just ask her?
 
It has been enacted in many countries.
Can’t remember haveing argued that point with you at all, not everything I have writen is an argument against you or is this a case of attack is the best form of defence?
 
Self stimulation is not an expression of love. Sorry!

Masturbation is not the same as foreplay.
The Catechism:
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought **outside of "the sexual relationship **which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139
Actually by that definition, I will concede one parameter towards your point of view that actually undermines your overall point:

Self stimulation within the bonds of the marital expressions of love is technically **NOT **masturbation at all; As long as the love act is completed in normal nuptial intercourse.

Thank you.:tiphat:

We learned something today.👍
 
Isn’t it amazing:

The advocates of homosexuality in here will go to great lengths to redirect topics, rephrase questions to their liking, and simply ignore any stated facts or questions that are detrimental to their point of view.

And they do it with such ease and lack of self-awareness of their own contradictions that it almost seems to be a subconscious reflex.

Unbelievable.:hypno:
I so agree and have seen it in my personal life. SSA apologists are well coached according to the play book. Their only choice is to redirect and/or dodge questions because they cannot refute the truth. Whenever I have tried to address an issue with SSA apologists, they resort to name calling and never answer the question I ask without resorting to some illogical straw man or false dichotomy tactic. But you cannot refute the truth. By definition, it stands on it’s own merits.
 
She’s right. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality.
That is not the issue. The implication is that it is moral because He did not mention it.
However, the Church has had a lot to say about it and that’s what matters. This thread is about what the Church has to say. What it has to say about homosexuality, the homosexual agenda, and how Catholics should behave so as to not undermine the dignity of people with homosexual tendencies.
If you would like to know exactly what she found hateful here, why don’t you just ask her?
I posted to her and now you led us down this rabbit hole.
 
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