Gay rights groups attack iPhone confession app for Roman Catholics

[kleary]

This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the homosexual movements intend on aboilishing “Freedom of Religion” from the US Constitution! Catholicism has already been talked about on many blogs as being “outlawed”- doors to churches chained closed and all clergy arrested!

Ken

 

[mormonfollower]

I dont understand why they get mad about it. I mean I know Im mormon but we believe the same thing about homosexuality, maybe even stricter, but just because we believe its wrong doesnt mean they need to go against it. I know catholics believe it is a sin so it SHOULD be in there. They need to respect other peoples beliefs as well as their own. It makes me mad.

 

[mormonfollower]

Absolutely.

Nobody is forcing anyone to use the iPhone program. It’s purely voluntary. If one doesn’t want to use it, then don’t. It’s that simple.

I find it hard to believe that gay rights groups were not aware the the Church teaches that homosexual activity is a sin. What difference does the iPhone make? If the Church teaches something is wrong, then something is wrong.

This is bizarre.

I agree! It’s there own fault for having curiousity to get it and look at it. This app is for catholics and if they want to pretend to be catholics and get it then cricize it, thats wrong. Their fault for looking at it.

 

[LittleSoldier]

**They have their own nightclubs, organizations, publications, liturgies, mannerisms, style of dress, and, of course, they date the same sex.

I guess the big problem is that it’s one thing to suffer from SSA, but when one is engaging in homosexual sex, now that’s a homosexual lifestyle. **

Do you mean that if two men engage in a homosexual act one time they are now involved in a homosexual lifestyle? What if a man with SSA goes to a “gay” nightclub to see what it is like? Does that mean he is now engaged in a homosexual lifestyle? What mannerisms? I guess I’m asking for an operational definition of “homosexual lifestyle” from you. It’s confusing to try to guess what people mean by terms sometimes.

 

[LittleSoldier]

The little disclaimer at the bottom tells me that the data is, at least slightly, skewed. In summary, it shows that the graph reflects what its author(s) think it should look like and not what the data they collected reveals.

Yeah, the old “you can prove anything you want with statistics.” Gotta be careful with that data and any conclusions drawn from it.

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

Do you mean that if two men engage in a homosexual act one time they are now involved in a homosexual lifestyle? What if a man with SSA goes to a “gay” nightclub to see what it is like? Does that mean he is now engaged in a homosexual lifestyle? What mannerisms? I guess I’m asking for an operational definition of “homosexual lifestyle” from you. It’s confusing to try to guess what people mean by terms sometimes.

That reminds me of something I’ve heard from a few guys about one time, and you’re called something, but this isn’t the place for discussions that get that frank.

I think if a person engages in a homosexual act one time, it’s like a trial Gay lifestyle member. After a few acts and a few weeks, you’re a new Gay lifestyle member, with some perks, like a rainbow bumper sticker, and a rainbow sash to wear. After 15,000 liaisons, you’re a Gay elder. As for mannerisms, I’m referring to Gay, effeminate mannerisms, that go along with the open, accepting lifestyle, but I’m going to hold off for another post or two before citing specific examples, as it may be too much for one post.

The bottom line, it seems a sure bet that the people who are protesting this iPhone app are fully participating in the Gay lifestyle, and do not merely suffer from SSA, and are not closet cases.

 

[Havard]

Do you mean that if two men engage in a homosexual act one time they are now involved in a homosexual lifestyle? What if a man with SSA goes to a “gay” nightclub to see what it is like? Does that mean he is now engaged in a homosexual lifestyle? What mannerisms? I guess I’m asking for an operational definition of “homosexual lifestyle” from you. It’s confusing to try to guess what people mean by terms sometimes.

The ‘lifestyle’ issue seems like a red herring. Either one has repented for one’s sins and is trying to live a holy life, or one hasn’t. Simply seeking a non-marital sexual relationship, the attempt itself, is a sin against chastity. On the other hand, going to a nightclub to dance, enjoy the music, make friends, socialize, etc., as long as the person is not being reckless about exposing himself to the occasion of sin, is fine.

 

[crazzeto]

Do you mean that if two men engage in a homosexual act one time they are now involved in a homosexual lifestyle? What if a man with SSA goes to a “gay” nightclub to see what it is like? Does that mean he is now engaged in a homosexual lifestyle? What mannerisms? I guess I’m asking for an operational definition of “homosexual lifestyle” from you. It’s confusing to try to guess what people mean by terms sometimes.

What this hypothedical SSA person who goes to a gay club to “see what it’s like” is doing is putting them selves in the near occation of sin, which is not a good thing regardless of sexual orientation. Something we are constantly tempted to do is to pretend the rules aren’t the same across the board, this happend either subtly or overtly.

In this case, I know that you had no such intention to confuse things, but if you sit back and think about it for a minute… You have to admit, a person with SSA who goes to a gay club is doing little more than putting them selves in the near occation of sin, such a thing is typically considered a sin in and of it’s self (not grave matter perhaps, but still).

I don’t have SSA in any way, but I have been dragged to one such club on a date with a particular young lady who was enthusiastically “pro gay” in the modern sense in my single days. Before this point in time I considered gay clubs to be little more than night clubs, where everyone was a man, who wanted the company of a man. I didn’t think it was any different than the night clubs I had gone to in my college days.

I found out it’s quite different, it’s extrodenarly sexually charged in there. People are doing things in there that I would get arrested for doing in any “normal” night club even if the person I was “dancing” with consented. In there it doesn’t hardly matter though.

The ‘lifestyle’ issue seems like a red herring. Either one has repented for one’s sins and is trying to live a holy life, or one hasn’t. Simply seeking a non-marital sexual relationship, the attempt itself, is a sin against chastity. On the other hand, going to a nightclub to dance, enjoy the music, make friends, socialize, etc., as long as the person is not being reckless about exposing himself to the occasion of sin, is fine.

I have to dissagree, the ‘lifestyle’ is anything but a red herring. You have to experience it, if only just by brushing up against it in the smallest way to understand. Until you see what happens in a “gay culture” it’s nearly impossible to comprehend. There is just so much propeganda to make one think it is little different than what hetrosexuals do, only it’s same sex.

Wrong, very wrong. It’s completely depraved, and the more depraved the better. There is a primacy of sexuality in ones life. This is why I admire so much those individuals I have found here on this forum who left this lifestyle in the persute of holyness. It’s aboslute night and day, the homosexual lifestyle fundamentally opposed God and holyness, this is why there is such a propensity in that community to make these kinds of bizzar attacks. People truely caught up in the lifestyle, are fundamentally oriented 180 degrees away from Christ.

 

[LittleSoldier]

That reminds me of something I’ve heard from a few guys about one time, and you’re called something, but this isn’t the place for discussions that get that frank.

I think if a person engages in a homosexual act one time, it’s like a trial Gay lifestyle member. After a few acts and a few weeks, you’re a new Gay lifestyle member, with some perks, like a rainbow bumper sticker, and a rainbow sash to wear. After 15,000 liaisons, you’re a Gay elder. As for mannerisms, I’m referring to Gay, effeminate mannerisms, that go along with the open, accepting lifestyle, but I’m going to hold off for another post or two before citing specific examples, as it may be too much for one post.

The bottom line, it seems a sure bet that the people who are protesting this iPhone app are fully participating in the Gay lifestyle, and do not merely suffer from SSA, and are not closet cases.

I agree. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[LittleSoldier]

What this hypothedical SSA person who goes to a gay club to “see what it’s like” is doing is putting them selves in the near occation of sin, which is not a good thing regardless of sexual orientation. Something we are constantly tempted to do is to pretend the rules aren’t the same across the board, this happend either subtly or overtly.

In this case, I know that you had no such intention to confuse things, but if you sit back and think about it for a minute… You have to admit, a person with SSA who goes to a gay club is doing little more than putting them selves in the near occation of sin, such a thing is typically considered a sin in and of it’s self (not grave matter perhaps, but still).

I don’t have SSA in any way, but I have been dragged to one such club on a date with a particular young lady who was enthusiastically “pro gay” in the modern sense in my single days. Before this point in time I considered gay clubs to be little more than night clubs, where everyone was a man, who wanted the company of a man. I didn’t think it was any different than the night clubs I had gone to in my college days.

I found out it’s quite different, it’s extrodenarly sexually charged in there. People are doing things in there that I would get arrested for doing in any “normal” night club even if the person I was “dancing” with consented. In there it doesn’t hardly matter though.

You’re right - my intention was not to cause confusion but to try to understand what a “gay lifestyle” is. I know that oftentimes young boys engage in homosexual behavior but it is a questioning sort of activity. There was a “Question for an Apologist” a few weeks ago that addressed this issue.

I didn’t know what went on in gay nightclubs. Like you, I thought they were just nightclubs with the clientele being mostly men. I’m sorry you went through that but in a way I’m also glad because now you can teach those of us who don’t know and who really don’t ever want to set foot in such a place.

Excellent point about gay nightclubs being a near occasion of sin. They most certainly are, and I had never thought about it that way.

 

[Havard]

I have to dissagree, the ‘lifestyle’ is anything but a red herring. You have to experience it, if only just by brushing up against it in the smallest way to understand. Until you see what happens in a “gay culture” it’s nearly impossible to comprehend. There is just so much propeganda to make one think it is little different than what hetrosexuals do, only it’s same sex.

Wrong, very wrong. It’s completely depraved, and the more depraved the better. There is a primacy of sexuality in ones life. This is why I admire so much those individuals I have found here on this forum who left this lifestyle in the persute of holyness. It’s aboslute night and day, the homosexual lifestyle fundamentally opposed God and holyness, this is why there is such a propensity in that community to make these kinds of bizzar attacks. People truely caught up in the lifestyle, are fundamentally oriented 180 degrees away from Christ.

I’m from San Francisco, you’re barking up the wrong tree. I’ve spent many nights witnessing to gay men who grew up Catholic, hearing their struggles, and trying to be the best witness I could to them. All of my gay friends (most are non-Catholic) are monogamous, most of them volunteer (two have dedicated their lives to social work), and a few of them even go to Church, albeit other denominations. There is no ‘primacy of sex’ in their lives as you put it. They don’t cruise bars for sex, attend parades in their underwear, or otherwise even remotely resemble the hedonistic ‘lifestyle’ that are attributed to the gay community.

I loathe generalizations, but one I will make is that more gay men and women resemble ordinary, private people than the debaucherous fools you see on tv.

 

[crazzeto]

I’m from San Francisco, you’re barking up the wrong tree. I’ve spent many nights witnessing to gay men who grew up Catholic, hearing their struggles, and trying to be the best witness I could to them. All of my gay friends (most are non-Catholic) are monogamous, most of them volunteer (two have dedicated their lives to social work), and a few of them even go to Church, albeit other denominations. There is no ‘primacy of sex’ in their lives as you put it. They don’t cruise bars for sex, attend parades in their underwear, or otherwise even remotely resemble the hedonistic ‘lifestyle’ that are attributed to the gay community.

I loathe generalizations, but one I will make is that more gay men and women resemble ordinary, private people than the debaucherous fools you see on tv.

Except I’m not talking about people I’ve “seen on tv”. Oh no my friend, back before I saw with my own eyes what was going on with my own eyes I would have been ready to accpet what you said. Personal experience has a way of opening up your eyes. Before my reversion took root I was already opposed to the greater gay community and lifestyle for this reason. My faith has taught me however, that no matter the context it is evil. Even for the few who might manage a monogamous relationship, that Isn’t the issue.

It is sin, we are all of us called to holyness in the form of chastity. All who are not yet married (legitimatly) would do well to persue it.

 

[dje101]

Gay rights groups attack iPhone confession app for Roman Catholics
The launch of an iPhone app that guides Catholics through confession has prompted a furious response from gay rights groups, who accuse it of “promoting anti-gay spiritual abuse”.

“Confession: A Roman Catholic App”, which costs £1.19 from the Apple iTunes store, has shot to 26 in the download charts, behind Sims 3 and Resident Evil 4: Platinum.

The app allows “a personalised examination of conscience for each user”, and has already won the backing of senior members of the Catholic church. A spokesman for the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales said it was a “useful tool to help people prepare for the sacrament of reconciliation”. Among the questions users are asked is: “Have I been guilty of any homosexual activity?”
…

this is absolutely redonculous. if the homosexual activists made an app that promoted their beliefs, the Church would not be allowed to say that it is wrong and it promotes homosexuality without being accused of hate speech. but these groups can say whatever they like and the Supreme Court would more than likely side with them.

I’m not a Catholic, but this still irritates me. I need to pray that my turns to

 

[Havard]

Except I’m not talking about people I’ve “seen on tv”. Oh no my friend, back before I saw with my own eyes what was going on with my own eyes I would have been ready to accpet what you said. Personal experience has a way of opening up your eyes. Before my reversion took root I was already opposed to the greater gay community and lifestyle for this reason. My faith has taught me however, that no matter the context it is evil. Even for the few who might manage a monogamous relationship, that Isn’t the issue.

It is sin, we are all of us called to holyness in the form of chastity. All who are not yet married (legitimatly) would do well to persue it.

You’re changing the subject. I never said it wasn’t evil. I said it’s not fair, not accurate, and not helpful to paint all gays with the same brush. It’s especially not helpful in ministering to them.

 

[crazzeto]

You’re changing the subject. I never said it wasn’t evil. I said it’s not fair, not accurate, and not helpful to paint all gays with the same brush. It’s especially not helpful in ministering to them.

I’m not changing the subject, I’m focused very clearly on the same subject I’ve always been focused on. You say that it’s not helpful to declare the gay culture unhealthy when ministering to homosexuals? Well then how do you propose to reconcile them to God? Admonishing the sinner is an act of spiritual mercy, a very great one indeed and one that we all need. Just because your Gay, it doesn’t give you a free pass from admonishment. The gay culture is what it is, 180 degrees oriented from God. It would tell the sinner that they’re “OK ” Keep right no sinning, it’s not your fault, it’s that intolerant church structure that won’t let you get married. Well it’s not that intolerant church struature, it’s God who created us who tells us for our own good that this kind of behaviour is wrong and that we should abandon it with great haste.

With regard to the gay culture, I’m not making stuff up, I have no interest in being unfair. As I said in my previoius posting I once thought completely differently than I do now. Beleive it or not I actually fought very hard to be “on the side of the poor oppressed homosexual”. All it took for that to go out the window was for me to open my eyes and see the culture plainly as it really is. If you refuse to see it, then you still blind your self. Not only is it there to be experienced if you so desire, the data is also out there for you to find.

The same people pushing “gay marriage” also push “open marriage/relationships” why? Because the over whelming majority of homosexual relationships exist in this unstable state of flux. They very openly sleep with people outside of the relationship. When a study found this not long ago and published it, new agencies such as MS-NBC took to the airwaves not dening it (because they couldn’t), but rather extoling the wonderful virtues of having an “open relationship”.

 

[Charlotte1776]

Havard, my brother is gay and I can tell you with full confidence that everything crazzeto has said about the gay culture is 100% true. If you talk to the people involved in that lifestyle, read what gets written and passed around within it, and witness what goes on firsthand, you will find that gay relationships are very different than straight ones. It truly, truly is focused on the sex, most relationships are short-term hookups, and even in long-term gay relationships it is extremely common to continue to have sex with other men outside the relationship to feed their sexual appetites. And, believe me, gay culture strongly promotes very disturbing and depraved sexual appetites. Have you ever seen a gay parade?

The goal of the gay community is to make homosexual relationships appear to be no different than heterosexual ones so they can gain acceptance and legal protections, but the dirty little secret that is widely known within the community but rarely shared outside of it is that they aren’t.

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

to feed their sexual appetites.

It’s probably like Chinese food:an hour later, you’re hungry again, because there’s not much substance; it’s not filling. Trying to use Gay sex as a replacement for what God intended will not be fulfilling, so they will keep trying even harder to fill the emptiness inside of themselves, and never succeed.

No offense to our Chinese members.

 

[crazzeto]

It’s probably like Chinese food:an hour later, you’re hungry again, because there’s not much substance; it’s not filling. Trying to use Gay sex as a replacement for what God intended will not be fulfilling, so they will keep trying even harder to fill the emptiness inside of themselves, and never succeed.

No offense to our Chinese members.

What we eat here isn’t really Chinese food anyway.

 

[Havard]

Crazzeto:

That is not what I said. What I said is that it’s unfair to call it the gay culture period. You’re taking a segment of a group and saying they represent the entire group.

Charlotte:

That your brother identifies with and associates with that particular segment of the gay community is especially lamentable, and I will pray for him. However, they are not the majority among the gays.

As to my experience with ‘the gay community’, I feel silly needing to post some kind of ‘gay resume’ but here goes: I am a third generation San Franciscan. In over 30 years in San Francisco, I’ve been to three gay pride parades in San Francisco, but I refuse to attend the Folsom Street Fair, (which is technically not about gays, but often gets imputed to them) and I’ve been to one gay parade in Amsterdam. I have gone to bars and restaurants in the Castro and Polk Street casually, as they often have fun things going on that do not only cater to gay people (some of the best DJ’s perform at clubs in the Castro.)

But I wouldn’t call the wild and raucous displays you see on tv ‘representative of the gay community’ any more than my quiet, slightly nerdy friend who’s a senior tax associate at a major law firm, the sensitive artist who’s been together with his partner for longer than I’ve been alive, or the down-to-earth lesbian couple who I know that run a towing company. They, and many others like them, deserve more than to be portrayed like exhibitionists and nymphomaniacs to which you refer.

And again, I reassert that they, the gays who are neither exhibitionists nor nymphos, that are the majority, and not the other way around.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Crazzeto:

That is not what I said. What I said is that it’s unfair to call it the gay culture period. You’re taking a segment of a group and saying they represent the entire group.

First I should say that my experience is limited. I’ve never been to a gay bar/nightclub. I am not close friends with anyone who is gay/lesbian.

That being said, I do know of one lesbian couple who are in what appears to be a monogamous relationship, they have a son (they were able to adopt him privately because they are lesbians; this troubles me very much), they have bought a house together, and both are highly educated (one is a university professor).

The only other couple I know of I met when looking for a room to rent. They lived together, called each other “best friends” and beyond that I know nothing except that their apartment appeared exactly the same as any other apartment I’ve ever seen.

So - I suspect you are correct. We don’t categorize all heterosexual people as belonging to one group - that group being swingers, adulterers, etc. And we shouldn’t do the same to gay/lesbians. It isn’t fair and it isn’t accurate. I know the lesbian couple with the son have been in a monogamous relationship for over ten years now. I don’t believe they are putting on an act and hiring a babysitter on Saturday night so they can go to raunchy lesbian nightclubs. I can’t imagine them marching in a parade in their underwear or holding signs saying “We’re Here! We’re Queer! Get Used to It!” I can’t say for sure they don’t do these things but I really can’t see it.

There are subgroups. There are monogamous gay/lesbians. There are gay/lesbians who flaunt their lifestyle in a truly offensive manner and they mean to do it that way. And there are other subgroups in between these two extremes.

The two things I am sure of is that every single gay and lesbian person is a loved creation of God and we should pray for them, and that the gay/lesbian lifestyle is morally wrong even if practiced by monogamous couples.