Gay sibling hurt by my choice to join the Catholic Church

[EasterJoy]

Did Michaelangelo’s attraction to men benefit the world? Maybe. I want to think so. But then again, I wonder if that is just me trying to rationalize why my sinful inclination is a good thing.

Amen!

No, I mean that the brain that has a particular wash of hormones on it or a particular arrangement of structures could both leave one more enamored of one’s own gender could be more likely to have some of those special capacities that Michaelangelo had. I’m not saying that a heterosexual man could not have that sort of way of thinking, but that the likelihood of having that sort of way of seeing might be higher. Doesn’t it seem as if a lot of poets were depressed–a lot, but not all. It’s not as if all men with same-sex attraction can arrange flowers, but if you find 20 guys who enjoy arranging flowers, maybe the group will have a higher proportion of men with same-sex attraction. Many sprinters, as it turns out, have long toes. Not all, but many. Well, if it were immoral to change channels with your toes, wouldn’t people with the long toes be the ones naturally likely to try it? Long toes have repercussions. What makes someone more likely to look on someone of their own sex with sexual interest may come from something like, well, a brain with some structure that is longer or shorter or thicker or thinner or something.

Think about it–if you live in Hawaii, it is a paradise, except that you never get snow and molds grow like no one’s business if you don’t keep things ventilated. Oregon is beautiful and green, but it is because of all the rain, which some people find depressing and wow, there is a lot of mud and moss, too. There is lots of sun in Southern California, but lots of fire danger when the Santa Anna winds come up, and not a lot of water. The Midwest has tornados, and on and on. There are rocky heights that can barely sustain life, that could never be a farm, but they are so beautiful. Life is so hard there, the plants barely hanging on, and these are some of the most beautiful places on Earth.

Lots of things in nature have the messy difficulties all intertwined with the beauties that come out of just that same state. You can’t have the beauty without having the particular difficulty that comes with it. You can learn to set things up so that the difficulties are mitigated and the beauties magnified. With God, all things are possible, because God can make any cross into a victory over death, if we are faithful.

I tell you what, I have to believe that those with the hardest crosses but who remained faithful will be the most magnificent souls in eternity. They will surely be the diamonds in God’s crown, that is what I’m thinking.

 

[SecretCatholic]

You’re completely misunderstanding me. I am making a point about how to conduct a conversation with a non-Catholic.

Okay, I understand.

I don’t know whether all natural biological desires are good. Notice, by the way, that you and NekoNecro agree that all natural biological desires are good – your disagreement is about whether homosexual attraction is a natural biological desire.

I disagree with both of you about the claim that “all natural biological desires are good”. It seems to me, for example, that males are naturally more inclined to promiscuity/polygamy than women are. But that natural inclination does not justify promiscuity.

Christianity teaches that we are fallen. Why should we expect fallen natural desires to be morally good? Is the idea that our concupiscence shows up after birth? What theological justification is there for such a position?

My thought is that those desires the church teaches are disordered are part of our fallen nature and thus not originally part of man. So they are not part of man’s true nature, but have trough sin become common enough to be called “natural” to man. I also think society has a huge influence on how those desires are focused.

I used to think it was “natural” for men to sleep around and good for “experience”. I was also taught that we were biologically meant to “spread our seed” (though one hoped it would not take root!) That had a big influence on my behavior, but now I see it for the immature and irresponsible sin that it is.

That does not make testosterone bad, and it doesn’t mean the world would be a better place if every man could just learn to act like a woman!

I think it is likely that homosexual inclinations are a vulnerability that are only part (but also an inseparable parcel) of a valuable overall neurological make-up that is fully intended by God. Just as a man would not wish God had made him a woman because he struggles with the effects of a high testosterone level, just so a person with homosexual inclinations might not wish to have been made differently in order to evade the trial of same-sex attraction.

I’m not trying to over-generalize here, because certainly it is not every case, but I do notice that gay men tend to have a combination of strengths (and weaknesses) of both sexes which seem to give them unique capabilities that neither straight men nor women tend to have. I know that “gay artist” sounds like a stereotype, but I think there may be something to that. Certainly everyone has a place and a contribution to make.

Rather, everyone needs to master the difficulties presented by his or her DNA, brain chemistry, training (or lack of it), past, and other aspects of themselves so that they may be made the unique instruments in the hand of God they were made to be.

Did Michaelangelo’s attraction to men benefit the world? Maybe. I want to think so. But then again, I wonder if that is just me trying to rationalize why my sinful inclination is a good thing.

It doesn’t make a difference to me either way, but has Michaelangelo’s attraction been proven? Anyway, I think our greatest weaknesses can turn into our greatest strengths if we know how to harvest them and use them for good.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Okay, I understand.

Sorry I sort of yelled at you before. In my head, I was yelling amicably, but I’m not sure the printed work carried my tone of voice very well.

My thought is that those desires the church teaches are disordered are part of our fallen nature and thus not originally part of man. So they are not part of man’s true nature, but have trough sin become common enough to be called “natural” to man. I also think society has a huge influence on how those desires are focused.

But it seems to me that science does not study our true nature – which is only accessible through unscientific reason or theology. Science just studies are fallen nature. According to our fallen nature, homosexuality is natural.

I used to think it was “natural” for men to sleep around and good for “experience”. I was also taught that we were biologically meant to “spread our seed” (though one hoped it would not take root!) That had a big influence on my behavior, but now I see it for the immature and irresponsible sin that it is.

Yes, because our theological nature (the theology of the body) is not identical to our fallen nature.

It doesn’t make a difference to me either way, but has Michaelangelo’s attraction been proven? Anyway, I think our greatest weaknesses can turn into our greatest strengths if we know how to harvest them and use them for good.

I think it’s proven he had a romantic relationship with another man, though romantic was not equivalent to sexual at the time. And he had a rather intimate relationship with the most famous masculine piece of rock in the history of the world.

 

[rinnie]

What should I do? I feel like I’m hurting my sibling who is gay. He has made mention of same sex marriage not being allowed in the RC church and although he is trying to get a laugh I can tell that he is upset about the church’s teaching on this issue. I have no desire to protest gay marriage or gay adoption anywhere in public or on Facebook by “liking” any obvious cause. I still love my brother and would love any of his gay friends or boyfriends. On Easter I made sure to ask him about a friend of his’ upcoming same-sex wedding and told him to have a good time. I think he was upset greatly last year when Chick FA the restaurant ended up having a record day in sales and lines (my other hetero brother posted photos of the himself in line on FB, and I chose not to support CFA that day, although we do continue to eat there and I love shopping and eating at other Christian places, I’m not anti-Islam or anti-anything else). I think the CEO had made mention of same sex marriage not being “right” and my gay brother takes that to mean that the CEO is homophobic. Now I’m certainly not homophobic but I do believe in traditional marriage.

How do I support trad marriage without offending my brother? Can I say congrats or looks like a fun party on photos from a same-sex wedding on FB? How can I explain the reasons behind the Church’s position if he puts me on the spot?

Please excuse the run-on sentences: it’s a bad habit.

You can’t! You either accept the RCC and its truth and reject sin. Or reject the Church and its truth and accept sin. As Christ told us you cannot be lukewarm.

This is unfortunately one of those cases.

 

[rinnie]

No, I mean that the brain that has a particular wash of hormones on it or a particular arrangement of structures could both leave one more enamored of one’s own gender could be more likely to have some of those special capacities that Michaelangelo had. I’m not saying that a heterosexual man could not have that sort of way of thinking, but that the likelihood of having that sort of way of seeing might be higher. Doesn’t it seem as if a lot of poets were depressed–a lot, but not all. It’s not as if all men with same-sex attraction can arrange flowers, but if you find 20 guys who enjoy arranging flowers, maybe the group will have a higher proportion of men with same-sex attraction. Many sprinters, as it turns out, have long toes. Not all, but many. Well, if it were immoral to change channels with your toes, wouldn’t people with the long toes be the ones naturally likely to try it? Long toes have repercussions. What makes someone more likely to look on someone of their own sex with sexual interest may come from something like, well, a brain with some structure that is longer or shorter or thicker or thinner or something.

Think about it–if you live in Hawaii, it is a paradise, except that you never get snow and molds grow like no one’s business if you don’t keep things ventilated. Oregon is beautiful and green, but it is because of all the rain, which some people find depressing and wow, there is a lot of mud and moss, too. There is lots of sun in Southern California, but lots of fire danger when the Santa Anna winds come up, and not a lot of water. The Midwest has tornados, and on and on. There are rocky heights that can barely sustain life, that could never be a farm, but they are so beautiful. Life is so hard there, the plants barely hanging on, and these are some of the most beautiful places on Earth.

Lots of things in nature have the messy difficulties all intertwined with the beauties that come out of just that same state. You can’t have the beauty without having the particular difficulty that comes with it. You can learn to set things up so that the difficulties are mitigated and the beauties magnified. With God, all things are possible, because God can make any cross into a victory over death, if we are faithful.

I tell you what, I have to believe that those with the hardest crosses but who remained faithful will be the most magnificent souls in eternity. They will surely be the diamonds in God’s crown, that is what I’m thinking.

I agree. But the point is choosing God over your own personal desires and sin.

We all have sin and mortal sin is mortal sin no matter what it is. If your sin is mortal you must confess and quit it no matter what it is.

And to that individual the sin is hard no matter what it is. We ALL have a cross to carry, its not the cross we carry its our choice to either carry it, and go to God for help, or refuse it and reject God and go our own way.

 

[EasterJoy]

Okay, I understand.

My thought is that those desires the church teaches are disordered are part of our fallen nature and thus not originally part of man. So they are not part of man’s true nature, but have trough sin become common enough to be called “natural” to man. I also think society has a huge influence on how those desires are focused.

I used to think it was “natural” for men to sleep around and good for “experience”. I was also taught that we were biologically meant to “spread our seed” (though one hoped it would not take root!) That had a big influence on my behavior, but now I see it for the immature and irresponsible sin that it is.



I’m not trying to over-generalize here, because certainly it is not every case, but I do notice that gay men tend to have a combination of strengths (and weaknesses) of both sexes which seem to give them unique capabilities that neither straight men nor women tend to have. I know that “gay artist” sounds like a stereotype, but I think there may be something to that. Certainly everyone has a place and a contribution to make.



It doesn’t make a difference to me either way, but has Michaelangelo’s attraction been proven? Anyway, I think our greatest weaknesses can turn into our greatest strengths if we know how to harvest them and use them for good.

I have no idea if Michealangelo had a deep-seated attraction to other men, and I don’t see how anyone else can know, either. He had a deep attachment to a younger man, but scholars dispute whether the relationship was erotic or paternal. He never married, but had a pious widow as a close friend for many years, to whom and for whom he wrote hundreds of poems.

My point is that most temperaments we recognize as having a good side also have a bad side, “two sides of the same coin,” as it were. The key is self-mastery, not declaring some people to have “good” temperaments and others to have “bad” temperaments. The presence of some trial in one’s psychological make-up is so integral to the human condition that the psychiatric community has discarded the concept of “neurotic” altogether, as is a level of “disorder” that essentially everyone has! There are true disorders that present trials or disabilities well beyond the typical, but when it comes to trials of the mind, we do seem to be on a complex continuum where the glorious and the inglorious often go hand-in-hand. This is why we all need grace, if we are to hope to ever become saints.

 

[EasterJoy]

I agree. But the point is choosing God over your own personal desires and sin.

We all have sin and mortal sin is mortal sin no matter what it is. If your sin is mortal you must confess and quit it no matter what it is.

And to that individual the sin is hard no matter what it is. We ALL have a cross to carry, its not the cross we carry its our choice to either carry it, and go to God for help, or refuse it and reject God and go our own way.

My point is that when someone says, “I was born this way,”
a) they may be entirely right that their inclination towards some ways of behaving are hard-wired in their brain
b) we should not believe “this way” ought to be understood narrowly, since things as different as running fast and being able to change channels with one’s feet can sometimes be traced back to a degree of development of a particular feature, such as long and powerful toes.
c) We all have inclinations that leave us more vulnerable to some sins and also more capable of some virtue or valuable capacity and by that same make-up less “suited” to others. Our task is self-mastering ourselves by openness to God’s grace in us, in order to live with the most virtue and the least vice and so be made fit to enjoy eternal life with God, in a limited way now and in eternal bliss forever after death, the unique image of God we were each meant to become.

 

[SecretCatholic]

Sorry I sort of yelled at you before. In my head, I was yelling amicably, but I’m not sure the printed work carried my tone of voice very well.

No problem, your intention was good.

But it seems to me that science does not study our true nature – which is only accessible through unscientific reason or theology. Science just studies are fallen nature. According to our fallen nature, homosexuality is natural.

I can appreciate the former thought, but I’m not sure I agree with the latter. I think in-born homosexuality is still an abnormality, which like all abnormalities pops up now and then. (I say in-born, because the behavior can be cultural as it was in old times and may be now to a lessor degree) To me any behavior which does not promote the propagation and survival of the species is by definition an abnormality (suicidal tendencies, a high propensity for cancer, asexuality, homosexuality, etc.)

I think it’s proven he had a romantic relationship with another man, though romantic was not equivalent to sexual at the time. And he had a rather intimate relationship with the most famous masculine piece of rock in the history of the world.

I think a straight man can admire the beauty of the male human body without feeling a sexual attraction to it. I certainly can. I also love the physical beauty of animals such as the cheetah, the zebra and the dolphin without feeling any sexual desire towards them. That said, I don’t know Michealangelo’s relationship to is work and artists do tend to be outside the norm, regardless.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I can appreciate the former thought, but I’m not sure I agree with the latter. I think in-born homosexuality is still an abnormality, which like all abnormalities pops up now and then. (I say in-born, because the behavior can be cultural as it was in old times and may be now to a lessor degree) To me any behavior which does not promote the propagation and survival of the species is by definition an abnormality (suicidal tendencies, a high propensity for cancer, asexuality, homosexuality, etc.)

Add “religious celibacy” to your list.

So it’s not as simple as saying that these things are all wrong because they do not promote the propagation of the species.

I think a straight man can admire the beauty of the male human body without feeling a sexual attraction to it. I certainly can.

Thank you for saying this. Most men will never admit such a thing, which makes a man like me feel more and more isolated from other men. The cultural standard of heterosexuality seems to demand that we not even see aesthetic goodness in another man, and – even if I can imagine not being sexually attracted to other men – I can’t imagine not finding certain other men beautiful.

 

[MacQ]

You can’t! You either accept the RCC and its truth and reject sin. Or reject the Church and its truth and accept sin. As Christ told us you cannot be lukewarm.

This is unfortunately one of those cases.

However…the OP certainly can have a loving relationship with said sibling without sacrificing the teachings of the Church. In fact, that is what we are called to do.
Jesus dined with sinners.

 

[rinnie]

However…the OP certainly can have a loving relationship with said sibling without sacrificing the teachings of the Church. In fact, that is what we are called to do.
Jesus dined with sinners.

Not always. There are times that you either accept and become a part of the sin, or you refuse to accept and become a part of the sin and they reject you.

I have seen it in my own family. My own sister is having this problem.

Her daughter says she is gay.

My Sister accepts this way of living one day, wines about it the next.

You can’t have it both ways. It is a horrible place to be in I admit, but its what it is.

Pretty much everyone in my family ignores this.

I am pretty much straight forward, I told her, I love you, but cannot tell you this is right and I agree with it, because I can’t.

Talk about getting hurt, I am called every name in the book.

I know many people who are gay, and love every one of them. But they say they are happy and I can see deep inside they are not.

None of us can be happy when we live sin.

So if you can tell me how we can have a loving relationship lead the way. Because it is one way, at least in my family. You can’t have it both ways.

I either accept and agree with what my niece is doing, or I am out of the loop you could say with her and her family. Unless I accept and agree that this is okay, and not a sin, I am the one not accepted.

So be it, I refuse to turn a blind eye, and see her hurting herself and others and pretend its okay with me and what God teaches.

She says only God can judge her, and I agree. She said she will get into heaven before me, again maybe she is right.

I am accused of the throwing of stones because I don’t accept the sin,
I was taught love the sinner hate the sin. That does not work in my family, its love the sinner and the sin or you are judgemental.

So if you can share any advice I am quite open.

 

[rinnie]

My point is that when someone says, “I was born this way,”
a) they may be entirely right that their inclination towards some ways of behaving are hard-wired in their brain
b) we should not believe “this way” ought to be understood narrowly, since things as different as running fast and being able to change channels with one’s feet can sometimes be traced back to a degree of development of a particular feature, such as long and powerful toes.
c) We all have inclinations that leave us more vulnerable to some sins and also more capable of some virtue or valuable capacity and by that same make-up less “suited” to others. Our task is self-mastering ourselves by openness to God’s grace in us, in order to live with the most virtue and the least vice and so be made fit to enjoy eternal life with God, in a limited way now and in eternal bliss forever after death, the unique image of God we were each meant to become.

I am sorry I disagree. While I agree we all have inclinations that open us up to sin, we still cannot give into them and say I was born this way.

We are all made in the image of God.

If a person is lazy and does not want to get off the couch are they born that way?

When it rains and is cold outside I want to be lazy, rather or not my inclination to throw on the tv and watch it all day and it usually is, I have free will to get off my butt and get moving.

To say a person is born gay means God gave them no free will.

I used to believe the way you are saying, but no longer feel this way.

While I agree we are all born with weakness, turning to God helps us beat them.

God does not give us weakness, he gives us strength.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I have no idea if Michealangelo had a deep-seated attraction to other men, and I don’t see how anyone else can know, either. **He had a deep attachment to a younger man, but scholars dispute whether the relationship was erotic or paternal. **He never married, but had a pious widow as a close friend for many years, to whom and for whom he wrote hundreds of poems.

My point is that most temperaments we recognize as having a good side also have a bad side, “two sides of the same coin,” as it were. The key is self-mastery, not declaring some people to have “good” temperaments and others to have “bad” temperaments. The presence of some trial in one’s psychological make-up is so integral to the human condition that the psychiatric community has discarded the concept of “neurotic” altogether, as is a level of “disorder” that essentially everyone has! There are true disorders that present trials or disabilities well beyond the typical, but when it comes to trials of the mind, we do seem to be on a complex continuum where the glorious and the inglorious often go hand-in-hand. This is why we all need grace, if we are to hope to ever become saints.

It’s a false dichotomy to suggest there is only those two possibilities.

Not always. There are times that you either accept and become a part of the sin, or you refuse to accept and become a part of the sin and they reject you.

I have seen it in my own family. My own sister is having this problem.

Her daughter says she is gay.

My Sister accepts this way of living one day, wines about it the next.

You can’t have it both ways. It is a horrible place to be in I admit, but its what it is.

Pretty much everyone in my family ignores this.

I am pretty much straight forward, I told her, I love you, but cannot tell you this is right and I agree with it, because I can’t.

Talk about getting hurt, I am called every name in the book.

I know many people who are gay, and love every one of them. **But they say they are happy and I can see deep inside they are not.
**
None of us can be happy when we live sin.

So if you can tell me how we can have a loving relationship lead the way. Because it is one way, at least in my family. You can’t have it both ways.

I either accept and agree with what my niece is doing, or I am out of the loop you could say with her and her family. Unless I accept and agree that this is okay, and not a sin, I am the one not accepted.

So be it, I refuse to turn a blind eye, and see her hurting herself and others and pretend its okay with me and what God teaches.

She says only God can judge her, and I agree. She said she will get into heaven before me, again maybe she is right.

I am accused of the throwing of stones because I don’t accept the sin,
I was taught love the sinner hate the sin. That does not work in my family, its love the sinner and the sin or you are judgemental.

So if you can share any advice I am quite open.

I could say the same thing about everyone I’ve met that claims to be happy.

I have LGB friends who know where I stand and like me anyway, the difference is I unlike most people spoke tactfully and had a rapport established by loving them as people.

I am sorry I disagree. While I agree we all have inclinations that open us up to sin, we still cannot give into them and say I was born this way.

We are all made in the image of God.

If a person is lazy and does not want to get off the couch are they born that way?

When it rains and is cold outside I want to be lazy, rather or not my inclination to throw on the tv and watch it all day and it usually is, I have free will to get off my butt and get moving.

To say a person is born gay means God gave them no free will.

I used to believe the way you are saying, but no longer feel this way.

While I agree we are all born with weakness, turning to God helps us beat them.

God does not give us weakness, he gives us strength.

Given that gayness doesn’t describe actions I don’t see how this is so.

 

[GangGreen]

People are born with mental illnesses as well, but we don’t go and say that they’re normal and OK. It’s only homosexuality where this becomes an issue.

It’s the issue of today’s hypersexualized world that says Sex = Happiness. People need sex to be happy because that’s what the world tells them. Living a chaste life is just not an option to the world. People see this a something weird, foreign, and not normal. To the world living a life of sexual deviance and putting your eternal soul at risk of damnation is a better option than living a chaste life and serving God Almighty. This goes for both hetero and homosexuals.

To the OP, your eternal salvation is more important than your sibling’s feelings. Christ said he would pit brother against brother and this is what he meant. The world hates Catholics because they speak and live the truth and they hated Christ before you.

 

[Bookcat]

*As Jesus said - a house will be divided. *

How are we to proceed when such happens?
*
Truth with Charity. Charity with Truth.*

“Only in truth does charity shine forth, only in truth can charity be authentically lived.
Without truth, charity degenerates into sentimentality. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled in an arbitrary way.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI (Caritas in Veritate)

We must love with truth and gentleness. Not conforming ourselves to the world -but being loving and gentle lights -shining with the light of Christ -shining as “stars” in the midst of the darkness (see St. Paul’s letters).

On the one hand we must not in any way approve the “homosexual” choices that are made -be they what has been called in our culture same sex marriage --or any other like relationships or the associated aspects.

As the Catechism notes regarding Homosexual acts: “Under no circumstances can they be approved.” (2357)

And regarding anything sinful:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#V

We must not give into “false kindness” or “false love” by being positive towards such or in anyway approving such. Such is very easy temptation in our current society. We can fall into it without even realizing it -we need to be very circumspect in this.

Now at the same time - one loves the *persons * (without showing approval etc) - loving them in truth. With great kindness and gentleness. Praying for them and pointing them as one can -to true life -the same true life we are given - in Christ Jesus.

Catechism:

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm#II

---

*Important for all is a renewal of the mind *: vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html (keep reading past the beginning).

Let us with love and truth and gentleness…and courage - go forward:

"Rather, courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world. This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires. On the other hand, he describes chasing the winds and trends of the time as infantile. Thus, being committed to the inviolability of human life from its first instant, thereby radically opposing the principle of violence also precisely in the defence of the most defenceless human creatures is part of an adult faith. It is part of an adult faith to recognize marriage between a man and a woman for the whole of life as the Creator’s ordering, newly re-established by Christ. Adult faith does not let itself be carried about here and there by any trend. It opposes the winds of fashion. It knows that these winds are not the breath of the Holy Spirit; it knows that the Spirit of God is expressed and manifested in communion with Jesus Christ. However, here too Paul does not stop at saying “no”, but rather leads us to the great “yes”. He describes the mature, truly adult faith positively with the words: “speaking the truth in love” (cf. Eph 4: 15). The new way of thinking, given to us by faith, is first and foremost a turning towards the truth. "

~ Pope Benedict XVI (from the above link–read the whole it is very very very rich)

 

[MacQ]

Not always. There are times that you either accept and become a part of the sin, or you refuse to accept and become a part of the sin and they reject you.

I have seen it in my own family. My own sister is having this problem.

Her daughter says she is gay.

My Sister accepts this way of living one day, wines about it the next.

You can’t have it both ways. It is a horrible place to be in I admit, but its what it is.

Pretty much everyone in my family ignores this.

I am pretty much straight forward, I told her, I love you, but cannot tell you this is right and I agree with it, because I can’t.

Talk about getting hurt, I am called every name in the book.

I know many people who are gay, and love every one of them. But they say they are happy and I can see deep inside they are not.

None of us can be happy when we live sin.

So if you can tell me how we can have a loving relationship lead the way. Because it is one way, at least in my family. You can’t have it both ways.

I either accept and agree with what my niece is doing, or I am out of the loop you could say with her and her family. Unless I accept and agree that this is okay, and not a sin, I am the one not accepted.

So be it, I refuse to turn a blind eye, and see her hurting herself and others and pretend its okay with me and what God teaches.

She says only God can judge her, and I agree. She said she will get into heaven before me, again maybe she is right.

I am accused of the throwing of stones because I don’t accept the sin,
I was taught love the sinner hate the sin. That does not work in my family, its love the sinner and the sin or you are judgemental.

So if you can share any advice I am quite open.

Well, my advice would be simply to love her and let her know you do.
Privately, you can pray for her, but you don’t have to engage in trying to change her.

 

[MacQ]

To the OP, your eternal salvation is more important than your sibling’s feelings. Christ said he would pit brother against brother and this is what he meant. The world hates Catholics because they speak and live the truth and they hated Christ before you.

Sigh.
I really don’t see how the OP’s eternal salvation is at risk for having a loving relationship with her gay sibling. Relationships are not about constant fault-finding in the other, regardless of what their faults may be. It’s just about loving them.

 

[rinnie]

Well, my advice would be simply to love her and let her know you do.
Privately, you can pray for her, but you don’t have to engage in trying to change her.

I have always loved her and continue to pray for her. She knows I love and respect her, but she also knows I cannot agree with her way of life. Its a hard place to be in, It would be much easier to turn a blind eye and just says its none of my business and do what you want.

I would never try to engage in trying to change her, I have no power over her. She can and will change only with grace from God and if and when she wants to.

But the point is she says if I don’t accept her and her friend then I am pretty much out. So I agree to be left out.

There is no anger or hate on my part, and she knows this, I just can’t sit and tell her its okay.

Her opinion is until you do, you will not have me a part of your life. I have learned to live with this, and move on.

She said I have no right to judge her, and as I stated I told her I agree with her.

But it is not I who has said this was a sin, it was God who said so.

So my place right now is admit this is okay and not a sin, or we cannot have eachother in our lives. As I stated I accepted this. I cannot say it is okay and not a sin.

As I told her it is not my teaching it is the Church.

But my point is for some people, they are put in the position they MUST choose. I was and I chose God.

 

[rinnie]

Sigh.
I really don’t see how the OP’s eternal salvation is at risk for having a loving relationship with her gay sibling. Relationships are not about constant fault-finding in the other, regardless of what their faults may be. It’s just about loving them.

And as I stated, if the sibling is okay with her not accepting the life style, but accepting her, its cool.

But to answer your question, or maybe for you to answer mine. How can you have eternal salvation if you choose to accept sin?

 

[CathConvert2013]

Wow, thanks all for the thoughtful posts. I guess I’m having a hard time pointing out his sins when I haven’t conquered my own… I understand a lot more though. Condoning the gay lifestyle is akin to making someone an appointment for an abortion, or supporting someone wanting one or having had one and isn’t repentant. However, I wouldn’t run around telling people that so-and-so had or considered having an abortion. Oh wait, I’ve done that too (being happy that they chose not to). Lord help me!