Gays In The Military

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HauntedJame said:
My brother was a Marine. And he always told me that everyone knew who was gay and didn’t have a problem with them, because they were all brothers (and sisters!). It was one of those things for him that he noticed that the gay Marines were better at organising than he was, as well as asserting situations. And trust me, he wasn’t saying it to pamper me. He said it because it was true.

I also think that gay soldiers find it easier to treat everyone equally, because they know how it feels to be discriminated against.My brother told me about when one of his fellow Marines started making jokes of one of the women that was there. The gay Marine in the group grabbed him by the back of the neck and told him that it wasn’t a woman in front of him, but a Marine, and if he called a Marine those things he would end up with a beating. The man apologised and after that started taking that attitude…that gender didn’t matter as much as the uniform.
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If your brother worked with women that means that he wasn’t in combat arms but rather support. Combat arms is a different lifestyle than support. Being in a support unit is more like a job and as such not as big of an issue since most of these units supply one or two man barrack rooms. In combat arms, if you are lucky to have barracks it is usually 4 men to a room and most of the time it is a open squad bay with communal showers. When on ship it an open room with absolutely no privacy. Being a Grunt (Infantryman) is a lifestyle and not a job. There are no women only men. We did everything together. We trained, ate, worked out, fought, showered, slept, etc. We were true brothers because we ate the same dirt and bled the same blood.

Here is one of the main problems that I see here. Everybody is equating serving in the military as just another job. Well it isn’t. It isn’t a job, especially in combat arms. It is a life and a sacrifice. The men that serve this country in combat arms are giving up years of their life and their health to insure that there is an America.

All of the pro-gay people on this board are only thinking of the gay men who may want to serve. No where are you even considering the men, who are fighting for your rights everyday. What about their rights? Don’t you think they have the right and the privilege to not have to deal with this mess? If you don’t shame on you.

I served 4 years in the Marine Corps as a grunt. In the entire regiment, I never met a gay man. Many were married and the rest hanged out together as a squad or platoon. No one hardly ever did anything by themselves.

Also the way all the pro-gay people are talking you would think that 50% of all men are gay. The truth of the matter is about 2% tops and it is probably closer to less than 1%.
 
ERose said:
If your brother worked with women that means that he wasn’t in combat arms but rather support. Combat arms is a different lifestyle than support. Being in a support unit is more like a job and as such not as big of an issue since most of these units supply one or two man barrack rooms. In combat arms, if you are lucky to have barracks it is usually 4 men to a room and most of the time it is a open squad bay with communal showers. When on ship it an open room with absolutely no privacy. Being a Grunt (Infantryman) is a lifestyle and not a job. There are no women only men. We did everything together. We trained, ate, worked out, fought, showered, slept, etc. We were true brothers because we ate the same dirt and bled the same blood.

Here is one of the main problems that I see here. Everybody is equating serving in the military as just another job. Well it isn’t. It isn’t a job, especially in combat arms. It is a life and a sacrifice. The men that serve this country in combat arms are giving up years of their life and their health to insure that there is an America.

All of the pro-gay people on this board are only thinking of the gay men who may want to serve. No where are you even considering the men, who are fighting for your rights everyday. What about their rights? Don’t you think they have the right and the privilege to not have to deal with this mess? If you don’t shame on you.

I served 4 years in the Marine Corps as a grunt. In the entire regiment, I never met a gay man. Many were married and the rest hanged out together as a squad or platoon. No one hardly ever did anything by themselves.

Also the way all the pro-gay people are talking you would think that 50% of all men are gay. The truth of the matter is about 2% tops and it is probably closer to less than 1%.
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My brother served one tour in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. But he was somewhat of a career Marine. He was infantry and only once or twice was he “in the rear with the gear” (he’s in his early 40s, as he is the oldest of us and got his honourable discharge last year). Now, I never joined up and I certainly don’t hang out with service men or women, but I take his word on it all rather than yours. And he never saw gay men as a mess. And it doesn’t matter how many people are gay, if it was 1 in 10 or 1 in a billion; as long as they want to serve their country, they should be able to. It works in other countries. There’s gay men and women serving over in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, in the various other countries’ armed forces that have joined us.
 
HauntedJame said:
My brother served one tour in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. But he was somewhat of a career Marine. He was infantry and only once or twice was he “in the rear with the gear” (he’s in his early 40s, as he is the oldest of us and got his honourable discharge last year). Now, I never joined up and I certainly don’t hang out with service men or women, but I take his word on it all rather than yours. And he never saw gay men as a mess. And it doesn’t matter how many people are gay, if it was 1 in 10 or 1 in a billion; as long as they want to serve their country, they should be able to. It works in other countries. There’s gay men and women serving over in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, in the various other countries’ armed forces that have joined us.
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So when did he serve with women? Women are not allowed in the combat arms so he didn’t serve with women as a grunt. One question for you are you straight or gay?
 
ERose said:
So when did he serve with women? Women are not allowed in the combat arms so he didn’t serve with women as a grunt. One question for you are you straight or gay?
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I don’t know exactly when he served with women, I just know the story about the Marine woman. I can’t exactly phone him up.

And usually, I’d say mind your own business on my sexuality, but I am gay.
 
ERose said:
If your brother worked with women that means that he wasn’t in combat arms but rather support. Combat arms is a different lifestyle than support. Being in a support unit is more like a job and as such not as big of an issue since most of these units supply one or two man barrack rooms. In combat arms, if you are lucky to have barracks it is usually 4 men to a room and most of the time it is a open squad bay with communal showers. When on ship it an open room with absolutely no privacy. Being a Grunt (Infantryman) is a lifestyle and not a job. There are no women only men. We did everything together. We trained, ate, worked out, fought, showered, slept, etc. We were true brothers because we ate the same dirt and bled the same blood.
.
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Gays can’t be true brothers? Are you claiming something negative about their courage, or patriotism, or resolve?
 
HauntedJame said:
I don’t know exactly when he served with women, I just know the story about the Marine woman. I can’t exactly phone him up.

And usually, I’d say mind your own business on my sexuality, but I am gay.
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I do not mean to question your brother and his point of view, but what I am trying to point out that it is his point of view and those who live the lifestyle of being a grunt that truly matters. One thing that I believe that the military is doing correctly in responding to this attempted policy shift is asking ALL active military personnel what they think since it will impact them the most.

By the way your brother has my fullest respect and gratitude for the sacrifices that he has made for this country and you and your family have my deepest respects for the sacrifices that you have gone through enduring his time defending his country.

I am not trying to be a gay basher here. I just know that when I was in the Marines about 16 years ago it wouldn’t have worked. I am assuming that the living conditions are the same now as they were back then especially in the field.
 
40% said no??!!??? :eek: Come on people! Jesus said, love your neighbor. He did not say, love your neighbor, unless he’s gay. Homosexuals are in no more a state of sin than a straight man who struggles with pornography or masturbation, which I’m sure there is plenty of in the army! Don’t be so quick to judge :mad:
 
ERose said:
I do not mean to question your brother and his point of view, but what I am trying to point out that it is his point of view and those who live the lifestyle of being a grunt that truly matters. One thing that I believe that the military is doing correctly in responding to this attempted policy shift is asking ALL active military personnel what they think since it will impact them the most.

By the way your brother has my fullest respect and gratitude for the sacrifices that he has made for this country and you and your family have my deepest respects for the sacrifices that you have gone through enduring his time defending his country.

I am not trying to be a gay basher here. I just know that when I was in the Marines about 16 years ago it wouldn’t have worked. I am assuming that the living conditions are the same now as they were back then especially in the field.
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Thank you.

I suppose it is a difficult one, but I firmly believe that it would be better if homosexuals were allowed to just be “out”, simply because it stops the aura of secrecy. These men have to trust each other with their lives; knowing about them personally helps (or so I am told). My brother has seen the change in the military the last years…I think the same number of homosexuals are there, but more are admitting their sexuality to their fellow servicemen, simply because it becomes about trust, especially since 9/11. Attitudes have changed and I think that the Marines are coming a bit more together.

My brother left the Marines because he had enough of the war, and because he decided he had done his bit. Also, I think, he was getting annoyed with the “youths” of the video game generation…he’s an old man at heart! But he has always been supportive of me, but he has a wife and kids and has become more active as a Catholic. I suppose in a strange way he is ashamed of me, yet loves me. But anyway, that’s my personal little cross to carry 😊

I don’t want to argue with anyone. I just think that if people are willing to die for their country, they should be able to be honest about who they are. Same goes for religion and the military.
 
YES. If it came down to me alone, YES, gays would be in the military…not openly, but, yes.
 
ERose said:
I… There are no women only men. We did everything together. We trained, ate, worked out, fought, showered, slept, etc. We were true brothers because we ate the same dirt and bled the same blood.

Here is one of the main problems that I see here. Everybody is equating serving in the military as just another job. Well it isn’t. It isn’t a job, especially in combat arms. It is a life and a sacrifice. The men that serve this country in combat arms are giving up years of their life and their health to insure that there is an America.

All of the pro-gay people on this board are only thinking of the gay men who may want to serve. No where are you even considering the men, who are fighting for your rights everyday. What about their rights? Don’t you think they have the right and the privilege to not have to deal with this mess? If you don’t shame on you…
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You calling those who disagree with you “shameful,” but you accuse me of having nothing to say?

I’ll ask again the simple honest question, that I would think a brave serviceman would easily answer honestly: Do you feel that gay servicemen would not fight and bleed and serve as courageously and honorably as you? It is a very simple question. Your rhetoric suggests that gay soldiers are not up to these standards of honor. I would like to know if you are actually claiming this.
 
HauntedJame said:
Thank you.

**I suppose it is a difficult one, but I firmly believe that it would be better if homosexuals were allowed to just be “out”, simply because it stops the aura of secrecy. **These men have to trust each other with their lives; knowing about them personally helps (or so I am told). My brother has seen the change in the military the last years…I think the same number of homosexuals are there, but more are admitting their sexuality to their fellow servicemen, simply because it becomes about trust, especially since 9/11. Attitudes have changed and I think that the Marines are coming a bit more together.

My brother left the Marines because he had enough of the war, and because he decided he had done his bit. Also, I think, he was getting annoyed with the “youths” of the video game generation…he’s an old man at heart! But he has always been supportive of me, but he has a wife and kids and has become more active as a Catholic. I suppose in a strange way he is ashamed of me, yet loves me. But anyway, that’s my personal little cross to carry 😊

I don’t want to argue with anyone. I just think that if people are willing to die for their country, they should be able to be honest about who they are. Same goes for religion and the military.
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Great post.
 
larkin31 said:
You calling those who disagree with you “shameful,” but you accuse me of having nothing to say?

I’ll ask again the simple honest question, that I would think a brave serviceman would easily answer honestly: Do you feel that gay servicemen would not fight and bleed and serve as courageously and honorably as you? It is a very simple question. Your rhetoric suggests that gay soldiers are not up to these standards of honor. I would like to know if you are actually claiming this.
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ERose?
 
Hello friends,

Gays serving openly in the military legitimizes their sin. Trying to install gays in the military is just a facet of the onslaught against traditional values which have sustained our civilization. Official recognition by the military would be a great victory for the homosexual agenda at all levels. And this agenda is simple. It is the destruction of the traditional family.

In my humble opinion, “don’t ask, don’t tell,” should be kept in place. Yes, heterosexuals sin. We are all sinners and we must always try to ask God for his Grace to fight against evil. But no heterosexual is pushing for the legitimization of any particular sin, whichever that may be. A given heterosexual sin which should come to the surface during military service and prove to be detrimental to morale can lead to disciplinary action.

Warmest regards to all and God bless you. May the Blessed Mother and the Saints intercede for all of us now and at the hour of our death.
 
Sticknirvana said:
Hello friends,

Gays serving openly in the military legitimizes their sin. Trying to install gays in the military is just a facet of the onslaught against traditional values which have sustained our civilization. Official recognition by the military would be a great victory for the homosexual agenda at all levels. And this agenda is simple. It is the destruction of the traditional family.

In my humble opinion, “don’t ask, don’t tell,” should be kept in place. Yes, heterosexuals sin. We are all sinners and we must always try to ask God for his Grace to fight against evil. But no heterosexual is pushing for the legitimization of any particular sin, whichever that may be. A given heterosexual sin which should come to the surface during military service and prove to be detrimental to morale can lead to disciplinary action.

Warmest regards to all and God bless you. May the Blessed Mother and the Saints intercede for all of us now and at the hour of our death.
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God bless you too! This is one of the primary points! 🙂
 
Sticknirvana said:
…In my humble opinion, “don’t ask, don’t tell,” should be kept in place. Yes, heterosexuals sin. We are all sinners and we must always try to ask God for his Grace to fight against evil. But no heterosexual is pushing for the legitimization of any particular sin, whichever that may be. …
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Are you kidding? Service men and women don’t divorce and remarry? None of them say, “My form of sex with my wife is none of the government’s damn business”? None say, “Anti-sodomy laws had better not apply to the private relations between husband and wife”? None of them say, “I appreciate that free-speech protects my right to view pornography free of criminal punishment”?

And the rest of hetero society? And what some of them argue for? Did you really think about this claim?
 
Sticknirvana said:
Hello friends,

Gays serving openly in the military legitimizes their sin. Trying to install gays in the military is just a facet of the onslaught against traditional values which have sustained our civilization. Official recognition by the military would be a great victory for the homosexual agenda at all levels. And this agenda is simple. It is the destruction of the traditional family.
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That is complete bull. It is not the homosexual agenda at all! It is certainly not mine…it is about love and openness, about being a good person regardless of sexuality. If homosexuals got to serve without hiding their sexuality, the whole military would function better simply because this “secret shame” wouldn’t be there. There’d be unity. Yes, some wouldn’t like it. But some servicemen don’t like Muslims in the military either, or Wiccans. It’s just how it is, not everyone will be happy but in the long run it will be healthier for everyone to be able to trust and know each other.

And those that hide their sexuality and live a different life when on leave face the possibility of dying in the war and not being able to have the person they love attend the funeral, or get any recognition as someone who has lost their partner. Imagine how that must feel.
 
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