Gays May Be Prosecuted at 2014 Olympics

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Another Russian woman gets into the discussion because she kissed her team mate. I think by the looks of the photo, she kissed her on the side of the mouth which is very common in some cultures. I know I do that with female family members.

sports.yahoo.com/news/russian-athlete-denies-podium-kiss-meant-back-gay-130211411.html

She is angered and rightfully so because she did a kiss that somehow the West blew it up as a protest.
“There was no hidden political motive,” she said of the kiss, shown by television channels around the world.
“Instead of congratulating the athletes, they (the press) decided to insult not only Yulia but the whole (Russian) athletics federation. First of all, both Yulia and I are married,” she said to applause from Russian journalists…
“It was a wave of unbelievable feelings and if somehow, completely by chance, while we were congratulating each other, our lips touched … whoever fantasizes about that is sick.”.
The sad part to me is that there will be gays who take this innocent gesture between girls to use it during the Olympics now to make a “protest”.
 
gnosisofthomas;11116457:
… You boil the human condition down to nothing more than sex and procreation, which is a rather bleak view of humanity, in my opinion. By this definition, then priestly and monastic celibacy would also be disordered, because in choosing to not form sexual unions and procreate, those who are celibate are deliberately going against the norm for a health human being.
If you take a basic biology class, you can see how male and female sexual parts are complementary. When in use, they work together. That is what mating it. Mating is not the only element of the human condition but it is one that has a built in design. To try to mate in a manner that works against this design is what makes homosexual activity disordered.

Humans, nor any other being that I know of, is in a constant state of mating. When you look at nature, all mammals have periods where they do not practice mating behavior or mating bonds and there are individuals who do not mate. Celibacy works in the same way. Celibacy is not mating. It is neither mating according to or against the design so it is incorrect to say it is disordered since mating is not part of a celibates activity.
True! It is difficult for a homosexual practitioner to accept that the practice to which he is attracted is mis-use of the sexual faculty, and will therefore use the argument that celibacy would also be a disorder, as the poster did. Mis-use is different from non-use, which in the Christian context is celibacy offered for the kingdom of heaven.

I think those lost in their spiritual quest sometimes look to justification, offered by the false teaching of gnostics, gnostics of so called several lost gospels. We have been warned about false teachers and agenda by those who call themselves Catholic but live or believe differently from tenets of the faith.

The homosexual insisting that homosexual genital expression is right or feels right is a classic gnostic. He refuses to understand that gender is intrinsic to the design in mating, that maleness and femaleness are not arbitrary categories. Disregard of the category leads to the incorrect conclusion that same sex mating is equal to the real thing when it is mere approximation, a simulation, no matter the love and physical attraction the same sex partners have for each other.
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Other than the authority of Jesus Christ, the very God of Heaven, exercised by the Magisterium of the Church He founded for that purpose.
Hmmm, well Jesus never said anything about same-sex relationships And the authority of your church’s Magisterium is debatable to everyone but members of your church.
 
True! It is difficult for a homosexual practitioner to accept that the practice to which he is attracted is mis-use of the sexual faculty, and will therefore use the argument that celibacy would also be a disorder, as the poster did. Mis-use is different from non-use, which in the Christian context is celibacy offered for the kingdom of heaven.

I think those lost in their spiritual quest sometimes look to justification, offered by the false teaching of gnostics, gnostics of so called several lost gospels. We have been warned about false teachers and agenda by those who call themselves Catholic but live or believe differently from tenets of the faith.

The homosexual insisting that homosexual genital expression is right or feels right is a classic gnostic. He refuses to understand that gender is intrinsic to the design in mating, that maleness and femaleness are not arbitrary categories. Disregard of the category leads to the incorrect conclusion that same sex mating is equal to the real thing when it is mere approximation, a simulation, no matter the love and physical attraction the same sex partners have for each other.
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Let me just say that I think sex has a much deeper purpose than mere procreation. It’s an intimate physical, emotional, and spiritual union between two people that. I completely understand you and your church’s position on sex and procreation – I just think it’s a very bleak view of the sex act.

As for your whole “Gnostic teaching” rant, you might be interested to know that in all of Christian scripture, the only book in which Jesus is recorded condemning “sodomy” comes from Gnostic scripture: the Pistis Sophia. Had your church chosen to canonize the Pistis Sophia, you may have actually had a better argument for the Catholic position on homosexuality. In any case, you’re going to have to come up with a better argument, because what you said is not Gnostic at all.
 
Hmmm, well Jesus never said anything about same-sex relationships And the authority of your church’s Magisterium is debatable to everyone but members of your church.
Not only debateable, but denied outright. Might as well say it like it is.

Because you have your own religion in which, apparently, homosexual relations are okay at minimum, blessed at maximum, there is an irreconcileable difference between your beliefs and ours. We all know that by now. Odd that you would cite one of the false “gospels” to support the opposite, any more than we need the Book of Mormon.

And of course, the Bible condemns homosexual activity, and doesn’t require one of the gnostic gospels to do it.
 
Let me just say that I think sex has a much deeper purpose than mere procreation. It’s an intimate physical, emotional, and spiritual union between two people that. I completely understand you and your church’s position on sex and procreation – I just think it’s a very bleak view of the sex act.
So, you consider the sex act between a man and a woman to whom he is married “bleak”??? One can only think your lived experience has been less than optimal.
 
The Olympics are an event that are meant to foster unity, civil responsibility, human rights, and international diplomacy. Part of our responsibility as a member of the global community is to encourage free speech, human rights, and the proper treatment of our fellow human beings. We should make our objections to the stifling of free speech well known. The last time we chose to participate in Olympic Games hosted by a country that mistreated an entire class of people based on an ideology of hatred, things didn’t turn out to great. We participated in those Olympic Games, and told our Jewish Olympians to refrain from causing waves, and told them to respect the laws of a country with different beliefs. I’m not suggesting that we are on the verge of a new holocaust, but the similarities in the events of these games and the 1936 Olympics are astounding, except even Hitler had enough sense to explicitly order that no foreign visitors be arrested or prosecuted for their anti-homosexuality laws.

ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005680
Until I read the date I thought you were talking about the 1988 Winter Olympics.
 
Because cracking down on homosexuals and their lifestyle will bring economic prosperity to the Russian people? Or Russian leaders want to maintain their consistently high standard of morality?
Great sarcasm!
 
We participated in those Olympic Games, and told our Jewish Olympians to refrain from causing waves, and told them to respect the laws of a country with different beliefs. I’m not suggesting that we are on the verge of a new holocaust, but the similarities in the events of these games and the 1936 Olympics are astounding, except even Hitler had enough sense to explicitly order that no foreign visitors be arrested or prosecuted for their anti-homosexuality laws.

ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005680
Comparing

God’s chosen people, who lived to serve God, followed God’s laws and commandments…being hauled off and gassed… simply for being Jewish

to

People trying to propagandize deviant behavior to other people’s children being charged with breaking a law for actually engaging in a specific behavior which is known to be against the law

is disgusting.

By this logic, we ought to just protest any laws. Or any country with any laws. If you really believe that all things are so inherently equal that being Jewish is really no different than propagandizing to other people’s kids about your sexual proclivities.
 
Yes.

And I’d still like to know why none of these people who are so agitated about Russia’s new law haven’t taken on all the countries with Sharia law who actually are killing gays.
 
So, you consider the sex act between a man and a woman to whom he is married “bleak”??? One can only think your lived experience has been less than optimal.
Because Our Church dares to not and separate the pleasure part of the act form the unitive, pro-creative part.
 
Yes.

And I’d still like to know why none of these people who are so agitated about Russia’s new law haven’t taken on all the countries with Sharia law who actually are killing gays.
This is the real hypocrasy here. How come they complain about laws basically saying “keep it in the bedroom” when you could get stoned in other countries?
 
Yes.

And I’d still like to know why none of these people who are so agitated about Russia’s new law haven’t taken on all the countries with Sharia law who actually are killing gays.
Because none of it is actually directed to either the Islamic states or even Russia. The condemnors know they won’t change Russia or the Islamic states either one. The intended audience is the population of the West. The objective is to reclassify Christian morality as draconian and abhorrent, and to engage young people in particular in that reclassification and condemnation.

By directly condemning Russia’s laws against homosexual displays and conversations about it with the young, it’s actually a condemnation of Christian morals, and an attempt to make westerners recoil from Christianity by exaggerating the negative effects of Russian laws . The Orthodox Church is really no different in its morals than is Catholicism or than are some of the more biblical Christian churches.

So the message is “See, kids, how terrible it gets when people like you and/or your parents bring their cruel Christian morality into the rules of conduct society sets for itself? Oh how we need to ensure that you keep your religious principles to yourself and make sure others do as well!”
 
Let me just say that I think sex has a much deeper purpose than mere procreation. It’s an intimate physical, emotional, and spiritual union between two people that. I completely understand you and your church’s position on sex and procreation – I just think it’s a very bleak view of the sex act.

As for your whole “Gnostic teaching” rant, you might be interested to know that in all of Christian scripture, the only book in which Jesus is recorded condemning “sodomy” comes from Gnostic scripture: the Pistis Sophia. Had your church chosen to canonize the Pistis Sophia, you may have actually had a better argument for the Catholic position on homosexuality. In any case, you’re going to have to come up with a better argument, because what you said is not Gnostic at all.
The Church’s position on sex and procreation is a noble view, not a bleak view. This short read should help correct your wrong view, Celibacy for the Kingdom of Heaven and the Fulfillment of Human Sexuality.

Further, that was no ‘Gnostic teaching’ rant. It is based on exposition on nature’s law as advanced by Catholic theologian Father George Wm Rutler who articulated the stance that homosexuals, in their behavior, are denying the truth of nature and denying the natural law.

At any rate, your mention of Pistis Sophia must be based on purported reference to the words of Jesus to Mary Magdalene that punishment for a man who sleeps with another man would be torture by 49 demons for 11 years. Well, other gnostic gospels have similar or various mentions on the subject, but they also did not make it to the canon. I don’t see why you think a discovery in 1773 given that like other dubious materials before and after the PS, it did not meet as a whole the criteria of proof required as to the authenticity of the document. The problem is such documents contained profane novelties of words and oppositions of knowledge falsely so called antitheseis tes pseudonomou gnoseos — the antitheses of so-called Gnosis]. By all means, read more here here. It contains a portion on the Sophia myth. I will not add anymore since this is veering off topic and you have your platform in your Ask a Gnostic thread already in the Non-Catholic subforum.

Faithful Catholics are content to accept that Jesus as God and Man in the form of a first century Jew neither changed nor equivocated that homosexuality is offensive to God as in the Old Testament, still true as recorded in various places in the New Testament, and still true to this day.
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Because none of it is actually directed to either the Islamic states or even Russia. The condemnors know they won’t change Russia or the Islamic states either one. The intended audience is the population of the West.** The objective is to reclassify Christian** morality as draconian and abhorrent, and to engage young people in particular in that reclassification and condemnation.

By directly condemning Russia’s laws against homosexual displays and conversations about it with the young, it’s actually a condemnation of Christian morals, and an attempt to make westerners recoil from Christianity by exaggerating the negative effects of Russian laws . The Orthodox Church is really no different in its morals than is Catholicism or than are some of the more biblical Christian churches.

So the message is “See, kids, how terrible it gets when people like you and/or your parents bring their cruel Christian morality into the rules of conduct society sets for itself? Oh how we need to ensure that you keep your religious principles to yourself and make sure others do as well!”
Just thought I’d highlight that it’s Christianity they take issue with. Very perceptive. And yes, I’d have to agree.

I wonder what happens when some of these starry-eyed young liberals raised by their starry-eyed liberal elders grow up hating Christianity and realizing that Sharia law would do much worse. Will they wonder why gays in Moslem countries weren’t important enough to fight for? Will they feel lied to when they realize it’s really about destroying Christianity and morals, not about protecting rights around the world?
 
Just thought I’d highlight that it’s Christianity they take issue with. Very perceptive. And yes, I’d have to agree.

I wonder what happens when some of these starry-eyed young liberals raised by their starry-eyed liberal elders grow up hating Christianity and realizing that Sharia law would do much worse. Will they wonder why gays in Moslem countries weren’t important enough to fight for? Will they feel lied to when they realize it’s really about destroying Christianity and morals, not about protecting rights around the world?
There’s a darker view one might take. I’m reminded of an old fable that goes like this:

"The jaded citizens of Alexandria awoke one morning to see that their city had been surrounded by bloodthirsty Huns. Such was the reputation of the Huns that the citizens knew if they took the city, a bloodbath would ensue. They stood at the walls during the siege and shivered with horror at the prospect.

Then one day, inexplicably, the Huns simply moved off. The city was safe. But the citizens were disappointed that there was no catastrophic denoument with the Huns.

It would have been better than nothing."

One is sometimes put to wonder whether jaded westerners would not, someday, welcome the lash of Sharia; the certitude, the opportunity to chastise one’s neighbors, the delightful exercises in cruelty one could, with smug satisfaction, watch…at least until it was one’s own turn.

We have seen that kind of thing in not-too-distant history. If one reads the history of the Gulags, particularly as described by Solzhenitsyn, one realizes that populations become depraved more quickly than one would suppose once time-honored codes and mores are swept away and despised, and are replaced by a wolfish system. Many are victimized, but many are rewarded. And for some, even perhaps for most, the reward is nothing more than the elevation one feels in seeing others brought down.

I think there’s still time, but it’s getting disturbingly close to midnight.
 
Not only debateable, but denied outright. Might as well say it like it is.

Because you have your own religion in which, apparently, homosexual relations are okay at minimum, blessed at maximum, there is an irreconcileable difference between your beliefs and ours. We all know that by now. Odd that you would cite one of the false “gospels” to support the opposite, any more than we need the Book of Mormon.

And of course, the Bible condemns homosexual activity, and doesn’t require one of the gnostic gospels to do it.
I think it’s odd that people here don’t seem to understand why I brought up Gnostic scripture in the first place. InSearchofGrace is the one that compared support for homosexuality to Gnostic thought… So I was simply responding to that, pointing out why the comparison was wrong. No one here has to believe in Gnostic scripture, but if you’re going to mention anything Gnostic, you should consider what the ancient Gnostics themselves actually thought by looking at their writings.
 
I think it’s odd that people here don’t seem to understand why I brought up Gnostic scripture in the first place. InSearchofGrace is the one that compared support for homosexuality to Gnostic thought… So I was simply responding to that, pointing out why the comparison was wrong. No one here has to believe in Gnostic scripture, but if you’re going to mention anything Gnostic, you should consider what the ancient Gnostics themselves actually thought by looking at their writings.
With all due respect, I’ll decline that invitation. Reading more than I ever really wanted of the Book of Mormon pretty well convinced me that alien screeds are never likely to be enlightening or even interesting.

But if one is a gnostic, and if gnostic writings are unfriendly to homosexuality, why on earth do you promote the latter? Is it possible to be a gnostic agnostic?
 
With all due respect, I’ll decline that invitation. Reading more than I ever really wanted of the Book of Mormon pretty well convinced me that alien screeds are never likely to be enlightening or even interesting.

But if one is a gnostic, and if gnostic writings are unfriendly to homosexuality, why on earth do you promote the latter? Is it possible to be a gnostic agnostic?
Excellent question! 😃

I would love to read gnostic’s reply to that.
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