Gays May Be Prosecuted at 2014 Olympics

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No, I do not oppose religious beliefs…so I don’t know “what” you “get”.🤷

I am against one set of religious beliefs set above others in governing it’s population.
No you’re not, you just think you are. The basis of any legal system is a moral or philosophical system; the deontological idea of human rights is just such a system that underlies our legal system: in other words, we allow one particular moral system to dictate our laws, how people are to behave, over all other possible moral systems. It is also almost completely arbitrary to call one belief system a religious belief system and another a secular belief system. Why is a person believing in God and a set of rules he believes to come from God is considered a less juristically credible position than a person believing in these things called rights, but fails to specify where they come from? Only an anarchist is truly against one set of beliefs being set above others in governing its population.
 
I’m not creating a strawman, this is precisely what the law has led to. It’s what happens when you criminalize the very existence of an entire group of people. It happened to Christians off and on throughout the history of the Soviet Union.
Nobody has been ‘criminalized.’ This is what gets out and out exasperating about these discussions–people engaging in hyperbole and making outright false statements. This is a law aimed against propagandizing, particularly to children. Go have all the sex you like in Russia, but it should never be anybody’s right to propagandize MY children with THEIR beliefs about homosexual acts. NEVER. It’s a rather sick world where such a thing is even a discussion. Do what you want in your bedroom. Tell your children what you want about homosexuality. Leave my children alone.
 
Nobody has been ‘criminalized.’ This is what gets out and out exasperating about these discussions–people engaging in hyperbole and making outright false statements. This is a law aimed against propagandizing, particularly to children. Go have all the sex you like in Russia, but it should never be anybody’s right to propagandize MY children with THEIR beliefs about homosexual acts. NEVER. It’s a rather sick world where such a thing is even a discussion. Do what you want in your bedroom. Tell your children what you want about homosexuality. Leave my children alone.
Likewise, you are hyperbolizing that this bill is aimed in any way at protecting children. People CAN go to jail for holding hands or kissing in public under the ‘public propaganda’ section of the bill, where they will certainly be raped and beaten (if they weren’t already before or during their arrest). This is a ridiculous law.

Would you be arguing that a bill aimed at “stopping Catholic propaganda aimed at children” proposed in the U.S. Congress would be a very narrow bill only affecting public school systems? No, of course not. Such a bill would almost certainly be used to invalidate any public display of Catholicism, including wearing crosses, talking about Christ in any public forum including churches, and probably having the chapels in the first place.

Supporting a bill that bans someone from wearing a rainbow hairband or holding hands with a member of the same sex is a violation of basic compassion. You are supporting the penalization of innocent gays for the crimes of straight policy makers in the U.S. who try to pander to the gay community by passing ridiculous laws about schools such as the high school history bill, when most LGBT people could care less about the laws. You are also using the actions of an extraordinarily small subset of gays to justify this bill, which is a horrendous violation of human rights.

No one should be banned from being civil in public, just because you don’t agree with them. If you’re willing to support this, are you willing to support the forced caging of all gay people in the U.S. on a deserted island like many Baptist pastors have joked about? That would probably stop gay “propaganda.” How far are you willing to go in the fake defense of straight children, 96% of whom won’t become gay no matter how much gay propaganda they’re exposed to?
 
The date on the calendar has nothing to do with being right or wrong.
The Calendar Fallacy rests on the ridiculous assumption that just because we live in modern times, as opposed to two weeks ago, human systems that have withstood the test of time will disappear or “evolve.” Human beings have only two choices: do the right thing or not. The Russians have chosen to do the right thing based on natural biology.

Here is an example of distorting reality based on a ridiculous series of ideas as opposed to recognizing reality as real:

ncregister.com/blog/simcha-fisher/a-fool-and-her-gender-studies

Yes, we will continue to pound the square peg into the triangular hole until it “fits” our unreality, which we think is better. Answer: the square peg fits in the square hole. Modernist reply: “But it can’t, because some purveyor of nonsense told me so.”

Bridge for sale in Brooklyn - price reduced.

Ed
 
So, you think that we should follow their example? You think that we should single out a group of people and throw them in jail for speaking their mind? Because currently you do have the freedom to go anywhere, unmolested. What you meant to say is you want the right to stifle the views of anyone who doesn’t subscribe to your religion. Are you really saying that gay people don’t deserve the same right of assembly that Catholics exercise every year during the march for life? One last thing, is it just gays, or are there any other groups of people who have less worth than everyone else, who’s beliefs and view points are to be treated as inferior to yours?
Could you please quote me or direct me to the post where (jmcrae) stated this group has “less worth?” We distinguish between the person and the sin. And anyone who commits sodomy, commits a mortal sin. This act is intrinsically evil and disordered. This is the objective Law of God. God does not base His Law on feelings or viewpoints. That my friend is what fallen human beings do because they do not want to conform their will to God’s Will.

Pax,
Tarpeian
 
Gay men have a hard time even volunteering with organizations that work with children for fear of being falsely accused of attempting to get close to children because they are pedophiles… I don’t even want to hear about how horrible it must be for straight men.

And if you want to talk about disgusting imagery, you should look at some of the signs at the march for life… Which I was exposed to at a very young age. It was actually very disturbing. I’m not saying I’m pro-abortion, but I am saying that gays are not the only ones who use controversial imagery to further political goals.

Lastly, gay pride events, which I attend annually are not nearly as risqué as you seem to think. While there may be some inappropriate actions that occur, these are individuals doing them, not the entire group. I also know for a fact that they are advertised well in advance, and it is as simple as choosing not to take your children to them.

The fact that you advocate throwing me in jail for exercising the same rights I protect is frankly disgusting, and I’m extraordinarily offended that you would suggest that I should be treated as a criminal.
I would rather see a person treated like a criminal to save his soul, instead of the State perpetuating a lie under the guise of “liberty and freedom.” If this “community” thinks the State has their well being in mind they are delusional. The State uses them as another tool,to try and destroy the only thing left standing in their way, Holy Mother Church.

Or I would be an advocate of this:)

lcrtl.blogspot.com/2012/05/do-you-now-anyone-who-could-use-some.html

Pax,
Tarpeian
 
From someone who was in the “community,” he has the courage to speak the Truth. Where is the tolerance? When blinded by sin there is no tolerance. What I want answered is why do some Roman Catholic’s implement the language invented by this movement? Since when is it a sin, to not tell the Truth? We are here to win soul’s for the Kingdom of God.

henrymakow.com/2013/08/Call%20LGBT-Movement-by-its-Real-Name.html

Pax,
Tarpeian
 
Likewise, you are hyperbolizing that this bill is aimed in any way at protecting children.
How far are you willing to go in the fake defense of straight children
And this is a ‘fake’ defense and ‘hyperbole’…why? Because you said so? Being exposed to homosexuality does have an impact on children. Having an activity normalized that brings harm to people does have an impact on children. Being taught things against their parents values impacts children and families. Being taught that they should consider whether they’re homosexual impacts children. Being raised with no father, or with no mother, by a parent’s choice, impacts children.

There are now a couple of writers, raised by homosexual couples, speaking out against it. I believe a link was just posted. This writer has said in other writings that he is contacted by other children raised by homosexual couples who feel the same, but are afraid to speak out, due to the harassment and vileness aimed at them by the ‘tolerant’ gay movement.

I’ve mentioned a friend who decided when her daughter was four that her daughter is a lesbian, based on a totally innocent comment. Why would my friend do this? Because she eats, drinks, and sleeps all this gay propaganda in our country to the extent that she sees it everywhere. As a result, her daughter is going to be one very confused young woman, having been told all her life she’s gay when she never was.

This is not good for children.
Would you be arguing that a bill aimed at “stopping Catholic propaganda aimed at children” proposed in the U.S. Congress would be a very narrow bill only affecting public school systems? No, of course not. Such a bill would almost certainly be used to invalidate any public display of Catholicism, including wearing crosses, talking about Christ in any public forum including churches, and probably having the chapels in the first place.
These are the kinds of arguments that get steadily more ridiculous: the attempt to force an argument on the premise that all ideas are equal and therefore should be treated equally.

What are the fruits of ‘Catholic propaganda’ that might entice a child into a lifetime of Catholicism? Carried to its natural conclusion, Catholic ‘propaganda’ would lead a child to a lifetime of service, love, charity, peace, modesty, humility, perseverance. The fruits of Catholicism are millions of hospitals, schools, charities, beautiful cathedrals, incredible music, paintings, and statues, feeding the poor, courage in protecting others, giving one’s life for another. Families in church on Sunday.

What are the fruits of homosexual propaganda? I’m well aware that there are flawed Catholics and good people who are gay and live conservative, even chaste lifestyles. But there enough studies and anecdotal evidence to show that much more *typical *of the gay lifestyle is promiscuity, licentiousness, self-indulgence, higher rates of drug and alcohol use and abuse, disease, and lowered lifespan.

From a study:
Substantially higher proportions of the homosexual sample used alcohol, marijuana, or cocaine than was the case in the general population. Contrary to other reports, this was not accompanied by higher rates of heavy use, although homosexuals did show higher rates of alcohol problems. In the general population women consume less drugs and alcohol than do men, and substance use substantially declines with age. Neither of these patterns were found for the homosexual sample, thus creating overall higher rates of substance abuse.
 
Supporting a bill that bans someone from wearing a rainbow hairband or holding hands with a member of the same sex is a violation of basic compassion. You are supporting the penalization of innocent gays for the crimes of straight policy makers in the U.S. who try to pander to the gay community by passing ridiculous laws about schools such as the high school history bill, when most LGBT people could care less about the laws. You are also using the actions of an extraordinarily small subset of gays to justify this bill, which is a horrendous violation of human rights.
Basic compassion is somehow tied to two men holding hands or someone wearing rainbow hairbands? This is the hyperbole I’m talking about. Basic compassion is giving care and comfort to a sick child or an injured person, or bringing food to the poor. “Innocent gays.” One might argue that one who deliberately breaks a law is not innocent. What ‘crimes’ of policy makers in the US are you talking about? And again, I find it disingenuous if not hyperbolic to contrast ‘innocent gays’ with ‘crimes of straight…’ But I suspect that the gay lobby does indeed care about those laws, if they’re what I think you’re talking about, or they wouldn’t have been thought up in the first place, much less pushed through.
No one should be banned from being civil in public, just because you don’t agree with them. If you’re willing to support this, are you willing to support the forced caging of all gay people in the U.S. on a deserted island like many Baptist pastors have joked about? That would probably stop gay “propaganda.” How far are you willing to go in the fake defense of straight children, 96% of whom won’t become gay no matter how much gay propaganda they’re exposed to?
Again, hyperbole. Who banned anyone from ‘being civil in public?’ And how in the world do we get from ‘don’t propagandize to children’ to ‘forced caging of all gay people?’

And just as I said above in contrasting promoting two different ideas, your argument (‘just because you don’t agree with them’) could equally be used by a pedophile. Can you imagine a pedophile saying to you, "Are you going to ban me voicing my ideas just because you don’t agree with me?" We are not talking a mere disagreement about whether potatoes or onions are tastier. We’re talking about foisting beliefs on children that may do long term damage to the individual and society.

I will ask again, as I have not seen it answered: why should anyone be talking to MY children about homosexuality? Tell your children whatever you like, but what the Russian law is saying is, leave other people’s children alone.
 
Nobody has been ‘criminalized.’ This is what gets out and out exasperating about these discussions–people engaging in hyperbole and making outright false statements. This is a law aimed against propagandizing, particularly to children. Go have all the sex you like in Russia, but it should never be anybody’s right to propagandize MY children with THEIR beliefs about homosexual acts. NEVER. It’s a rather sick world where such a thing is even a discussion. Do what you want in your bedroom. Tell your children what you want about homosexuality. Leave my children alone.
‘Think of the children’ is an emotional appeal and a logical fallacy. I’m happy to engage in a reasonable discussion but that can’t happen with rhetorical tactics that ignore the reality of the situation and put a stop to any logical discussion. The whole child protection and social morality argument is simply obfuscation.
 
I’m not creating a strawman, this is precisely what the law has led to. It’s what happens when you criminalize the very existence of an entire group of people. It happened to Christians off and on throughout the history of the Soviet Union.
They have not “criminalized the existence of a group of people.”

They have criminalized a behaviour that no person ought to do anyway, regardless of skin colour, eye colour, race, or religion.
 
‘Think of the children’ is an emotional appeal and a logical fallacy. I’m happy to engage in a reasonable discussion but that can’t happen with rhetorical tactics that ignore the reality of the situation and put a stop to any logical discussion. The whole child protection and social morality argument is simply obfuscation.
How is that? It is the crowd espousing gay “marriage” and adoption of children two people of the same sex could not possibly produce without an outside party that piles on the appeal to emotion, used to cover an underlying selfish interest. What common good or interest is served when the next generation is taught to embrace homosexuality as a good way to live?

The Russian government has done many things that were wrong, but it is right in prohibiting gay “marriage” and placement of Russian children with same sex adoptive parents. Their more recent anti-gay propaganda law is also in the right direction, which bans making available to children information intended to form in a minor a nontraditional sexual foundation. It prohibits portraying the attractiveness of such relations and bans asserting the social equivalence of traditional and nontraditional sexual relations.
,
 
:rolleyes:
‘Think of the children’ is an emotional appeal and a logical fallacy. I’m happy to engage in a reasonable discussion but that can’t happen with rhetorical tactics that ignore the reality of the situation and put a stop to any logical discussion. The whole child protection and social morality argument is simply obfuscation.
 
How is that? It is the crowd espousing gay “marriage” and adoption of children two people of the same sex could not possibly produce without an outside party that piles on the appeal to emotion, used to cover an underlying selfish interest. What common good or interest is served when the next generation is taught to embrace homosexuality as a good way to live?

The Russian government has done many things that were wrong, but it is right in prohibiting gay “marriage” and placement of Russian children with same sex adoptive parents. Their more recent anti-gay propaganda law is also in the right direction, which bans making available to children information intended to form in a minor a nontraditional sexual foundation. It prohibits portraying the attractiveness of such relations and bans asserting the social equivalence of traditional and nontraditional sexual relations.
I’m glad you brought up tradition. It’s another fallacious argument that does not take into account new understandings and information. It is yet another reason why the law is entirely baseless. It has no place in a reasonable discussion.
 
They have not “criminalized the existence of a group of people.”
Not overtly, but that’s still the effect the law has. When two people holding hands in public is considered propaganda and can get them arrested, their existence is basically illegal. Straight people can go around holding hands, and no one thinks twice. Straight couples can even go out in public with their children, even though everyone knows exactly what they did to create those children, and no one cares. They can talk openly about having a girlfriend/boyfriend, or spouse – something that does come up in casual conversation at some point. Gay people can’t do this in Russia, for fear of being arrested. Something so basic that straight people take for granted, is illegal for gay people now.
They have criminalized a behaviour that no person ought to do anyway, regardless of skin colour, eye colour, race, or religion.
Straight people and religious people have no right to make that call. You can believe that “no person ought to do” this, but your belief doesn’t make you right.
 
Not overtly, but that’s still the effect the law has. When two people holding hands in public is considered propaganda and can get them arrested, their existence is basically illegal. Straight people can go around holding hands, and no one thinks twice. Straight couples can even go out in public with their children, even though everyone knows exactly what they did to create those children, and no one cares. They can talk openly about having a girlfriend/boyfriend, or spouse – something that does come up in casual conversation at some point. Gay people can’t do this in Russia, for fear of being arrested. Something so basic that straight people take for granted, is illegal for gay people now.
There is no such thing as a race or a distinct class of homosexual persons. There is only the choice to have homosexual relationships being made by some people, who then call themselves “homosexuals.” But there is nothing interiorly or physically required to make the person “homosexual.” There is only his or her choice to have those kind of relationships.

Everyone can make a choice to have healthy or unhealthy heterosexual relationships, or homosexual relationships, or no relationships - or some combination of those, if they are promiscuous.

These are choices we make based on how we have been educated on our sexuality, and what we think is “cool” and how we want to be perceived by others, and sometimes by what we see on television or in other media - sometimes our choices are driven by a fear of commitment, or a fear of pregnancy, or past bad experiences with certain kinds of people, or the desire to dominate other people, either of the same sex or the opposite sex.

Some of these choices are healthy and life-giving, and others are not. But they are always choices of actions; none of these things are the characteristics of any particular race of people.
 
There is no such thing as a race or a distinct class of homosexual persons. There is only the choice to have homosexual relationships being made by some people, who then call themselves “homosexuals.” But there is nothing interiorly or physically required to make the person “homosexual.” There is only his or her choice to have those kind of relationships.

Everyone can make a choice to have healthy or unhealthy heterosexual relationships, or homosexual relationships, or no relationships - or some combination of those, if they are promiscuous.

These are choices we make based on how we have been educated on our sexuality, and what we think is “cool” and how we want to be perceived by others, and sometimes by what we see on television or in other media - sometimes our choices are driven by a fear of commitment, or a fear of pregnancy, or past bad experiences with certain kinds of people, or the desire to dominate other people, either of the same sex or the opposite sex.

Some of these choices are healthy and life-giving, and others are not. But they are always choices of actions; none of these things are the characteristics of any particular race of people.
So what you’re saying is that the only thing that keeps you heterosexual is the fear of hell? You’d choose to be gay if you weren’t afraid of burning in hell?
 
So what you’re saying is that the only thing that keeps you heterosexual is the fear of hell? You’d choose to be gay if you weren’t afraid of burning in hell?
What keeps me heterosexual is that the best version of myself, and what God created me to be, is a mother, a wife, and to use my talents for His glory and in the service of others, rather than to seek only my own pleasure, or to debase myself in practices that are not wholesome or life-giving. And that it is not any less “fun” or enjoyable to be the best version of myself.

🙂

I have never been afraid of Hell - not even at times in my life when that would have been the most sane response to what I was doing to myself.
 
There is no such thing as a race or a distinct class of homosexual persons. There is only the choice to have homosexual relationships being made by some people, who then call themselves “homosexuals.” But there is nothing interiorly or physically required to make the person “homosexual.” There is only his or her choice to have those kind of relationships.

Everyone can make a choice to have healthy or unhealthy heterosexual relationships, or homosexual relationships, or no relationships - or some combination of those, if they are promiscuous.

These are choices we make based on how we have been educated on our sexuality, and what we think is “cool” and how we want to be perceived by others, and sometimes by what we see on television or in other media - sometimes our choices are driven by a fear of commitment, or a fear of pregnancy, or past bad experiences with certain kinds of people, or the desire to dominate other people, either of the same sex or the opposite sex.

Some of these choices are healthy and life-giving, and others are not. But they are always choices of actions; none of these things are the characteristics of any particular race of people.
I agree that homosexuals are not a race of people. However, would you agree that, in addition to the reasons you mentioned, the choices homosexuals and heterosexuals make with regard to their sexual behavior is also driven by their sexual attraction, as simplistic as this may sound?
 
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