E
estesbob
Guest
Other than that how was the play, Mrs Lincoln?
- Status
I
InSearchofGrace
Guest
Let the Russian leadership take care of their LGBT problems. They have decriminalized homosexual acts, which is a step in the right direction. What is evident to the Russian leaders is that in the U.S. , the UK, and other Western countries, the pendulum has swung too much in said countries’ accommodation of gay rights. The removal of discrimination in the work place and acceptance of gays in business and social settings is a good sign of a civil society. Homosexuals and heterosexuals are equal, both possessing of dignity as humans. However, I do not see the social good of legal gay “marriage” and its spread across states, equalizing homosexual unions with heterosexual unions, which are unequal, just basing on the fact that same sex pairings can not produce the next crop of citizens. Benefits for unequal unions just because! Yeah, thanks to legislators,judges and president of our country who have not acted and decided for the good of the family and future of society.
It is apparent that the gay issue is near and dear to you (your post 727 revealing as much), which I think makes it difficult to step back in order to appreciate the bigger picture.
Dan Savage promotes an overt, shameless and lived out homosexual life. I can see the good of encouraging kids, not to let their despair lead them to self harm, not to give up. But Dan does not stop there. He goes on to enthusiastic approval of active homosexuality and accuse anybody who objects to it is nevertheless and the same as the bullies who drive the kids to suicide. I think this is wrong and widens the wedge between LGBTs and well meaning people on the other side. I hope you do not agree with this message which necessarily comes with It Gets Better program.
Youth driven to despair and suicide should be troubling to all of society. And much can be done, I agree, not just in the context of youth with homosexuality issues, but all youth at risk for depression secondary to bullying for any reason in every school, perhaps from middle school to junior college, public and private. Not the narrow and controversial anti-bullying pro-gay kind of program that Obama appointee Safe Schools Czar Kevin Jennings instituted!
I would think that schools run by Catholic parishes have in place programs to prevent bullying of any kid in the yard or school premises, where this sort of thing happens. In fact, there are programs now that address bullying on the Internet.
Surely, you realize that the Catholic Church minds a big flock in each of its parishes with various and numerous ministries that address the needs of its members through its programs of spiritual and corporal works of mercy, etc.
It is curious that you single the CC, expecting she should just make an It Gets Better video a la Savage, one that is based on Church teachings. I don’t think the Church is lacking in compassion, teaching it, and applying it. Just consider Catholic Charities, for example, which for decades has been placing children with families as a service to society and as assistance to the government — until the state imposed placement of children with same sex couples as well.
I think all religious and civic organizations can come together in efforts to help prevention of suicide although the approach need not be narrowed to just the gay youth. I looked around on the net and I did come across this report which is an indication that religious organizations have indeed thought about it:
interfaith suicide prevention dialogue effort. Note the year (2009) which precedes It Gets Better (2010). The thing is news on such efforts don’t get picked up by the media. No drama, not sensational enough, that’s why.
,
G
gnosisofthomas
Guest
I actually thought **jmcrae **was joking at first… and then I realised what forum I’m on, haha!
I had my first crush on a boy when I was in kindergarten, before I even knew there was a word for that, or that some people thought it was a “sin”. It wasn’t until around 4th grade, when my friends started liking girls, that I realised I was probably gay… Which was a struggle, growing up in a Christian household. No one “mentored” me, either you’re gay or you’re not!
G
gnosisofthomas
Guest
It’s funny, that’s how I feel about bigots. If it bothers them to be called a bigot, or they feel like they’re being “persecuted for their beliefs”, it’s still my duty to point out the damage they are inflicting on the world by causing other people to suffer simply because they think they know better.
You do realise that homosexuality and transsexuality are two different things, right? Honestly (and unfortunately) the gay/lesbian/bi community is often quite hostile to transgender people. Hormones and sometimes surgery help treat the dysphoria an individual feels due to their biological sex. Just because you can’t understand how someone could feel unhappy with their sex, doesn’t mean you should diminish their own feelings on the matter.
G
gnosisofthomas
Guest
Wow, you are incredibly patronizing!
T
Tarquin
Guest
They do it privately in dark or semi-dark. And of course, the media doesn’t want to portray homosexuals in a bad light, otherwise they would be “homophobes,” right? So they don’t report much of this sort of thing, not as much as they do when a gay gets a bloody-nose or is called a bad name.
Jesse Dirkhising
covenantnews.com/dirkhising.htm
Christopher Newsom and Channon Christian. Maybe this isn’t as bad because the rapes were bisexual instead of purely homosexual?
youtube.com/channel/HCwJtnWQKO2Fc, and
snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp
I have neither seen nor heard anything that suggests that anyone’s “biggest beef” is what someone (not a “random” someone by the way, but a very specific, agenda activated person) is wearing. Focusing on wardrobe is shallow, and distracts from the real issue.
G
gnosisofthomas
Guest
So if this had happened to a little girl, would it be a “heterosexual rape and murder”? Would they be saying how horrible straight people are because of this one crime? It’s a terrible story, and I feel horrible for the boy – but it’s about pedophile murderers, and proves nothing about gay people in general. I think it’s disgusting to use the boy’s murder for heterosexist propaganda.
J
JRJOHNSON
Guest
It’s bigoted but it’s still the right view. Being bigoted against gay/lesbian sexual conduct = bigotry against tobacco use. Most smokers are not offended by bigotry against their conduct. So gays/lesbians must not be offended by our bigotry against gay/lesbian conduct. Russian authorities (many who are non-religious) understand the dangers of gay/lesbian conduct and they don’t want this filth being taught to kids.
Transexauls are mutilated gays and lesbians. All transsexuals are gay/lesbian but not all gays and lesbians are transsexuals. I don’t care what others say but mutilating a man or woman to make them fake members of opposite sex is gay/lesbian. And gay/lesbian groups are apologists for Transexuals which is why the word T is there. They must cure Gender Dysphoria and abolish this sad surgical mutilation. There are people who think they were born with no arms (Amputee Identity Disorder) and it would be wrong for a surgeon to amputate healthy limbs of 1 with this.
Again, I know many to most Atheists differ with me on this as my reasons are unrelated to any faith. But a person does not need to be religious to know the harms of gay and lesbian conduct. That’s why secular people who are against gay and lesbian agenda must speak and people must condemn sex changes as = to amputating healthy limbs. With Christians, what has happened is that too many have abandoned what Scripture says-following parts they agree with and discarding what goes against their faith. Russia is a secular nation which is stopping this gay/lesbian and transsexual propaganda.
J.R. Johnson
T
Tarquin
Guest
I strongly resent your implication. You need to get off your high horse and reread the posts. I neither stated nor intimated that the crimes reported were symptomatic of all homosexuals. You are accusing me falsely. Nor did I use the reports as some dubious “heterosexist propaganda.”
I was responding to a post, a specific post, posted by EmperorNapoleon:
My edited post ended:
A big problem, one which you have conveniently demonstrated, is that even the most logical, specific, unemotional statements critical of any aspect of homosexuality, whether tame such as wearing a tutu or violent such as a murder, are taken to the absolute extreme, used as “evidence” of “homophobia,” caricaturized as “heterosexist propaganda,” and basically ignored. If you can ignore it, you don’t have to deal with it.
For the sake of the argument, I really don’t care what you call the rape and murder of a young girl. Because that is not the argument. Start a new thread if you want to talk about pederasty or girls. This thread was supposed to be, so I thought, about Gays being prosecuted at the Olympics. Someone said he doesn’t see gays torturing people in broad daylight. Am I not allowed to respond to that unless I first confess undying praise, or at least approval, for homosexuality? I’m not dictating your morality; you shouldn’t be dictating mine. My response was pertinent to the post. It was specific, not universal, as is obvious to any honest reader. * It is dishonest to pretend my response was intended to be universally applicable.* Your response, on the other hand, went off in left field, misconstruing my words, and I suspect you did so intentionally, to “silence and jam” me. If you had an argument with any merit, you would have used that, instead of turning on me to gain points on false cries of “propaganda.” You can get people to ignore me by lying about me and calling me names, but you can’t get me to shut up while I still live. " I think it’s disgusting to use the boy’s murder for heterosexist propaganda." I think it’s disgusting to use my post for homosexual propaganda.
T
Tarquin
Guest
Allow that same privilege to those who believe the contrary.
Not where I’m at. They have their meetings and parties together, on campus and off. See, I won’t make what is true in specific instances, into a false “universal.” I mentioned two cases, and it got blown into a false universal. You can identify not a single, real, documented case of gay-transgender hostility at all.
Do you or do you not think it is arrogant to diminish a person’s opinions on the matter to one of lack of understanding? Don’t you think it is possible that at least some people criticize the matter for reasons other than lack of understanding? And do you believe our speech should be restricted based on whether or not it “diminishes” someones feelings about a thing? Why have free speech then, if the only things we say are what makes everyone feel good? There are only a couple of ways to remove all disagreement. They are all worse than disagreement itself.
If someone happens to notice their feelings are diminished, then it is not time to “kill the messenger;” it is time for introspection. If your feelings about yourself are diminished, that could be a sign that a change is needed. If our actions and our feelings about those actions are out of harmony, we need to change how we see things, or we need to change our actions. That might be more Buddhist like than usual Catholic talk, but it fits Jesus’ teachings about bad spirits being kicked out; if you don’t have anything better, the bad ones just keep coming back. Either you have to replace the spirits with something better, or change the house so they won’t want to come back to it.
S
SMGS127
Guest
I know you don’t mean this in a patronizing way, so I won’t call you as such, despite the tone in your post. But I will add that you saying that is like me saying that the “Catholic issue is [too] near and dear to you to discuss any issue the Church teaches on.” It doesn’t actually make sense. Direct experience on the issue actually enlightens me more, not less, and does not cloud my perception at all. Try to consider why having 7 years of direct contact with an affected population might actually make me understand these issues better than you.
Uhhhh no. If you would like, I will post It Gets Better videos that do not have this message in them. There are countless ones, and it is not “necessarily” part of the program.
Considering that the #1 reason kids are bullied are for having characteristics not typically of their gender, I would argue that targeting our anti-bullying efforts mainly to anti-gay violence isn’t horrible. That doesn’t mean the Obama administration doesn’t do any other anti-bullying work, just that it’s the main focus
.I’m not quite sure how adoption has anything to do with talking about banning the It Gets Better project, but I also don’t know why people continue to suggest the actions of [mostly straight] lawmakers is what gay people “want.” Most gay people could care less if Catholic businesses or Churches want to not perform business with them on issues of “marriage” or adoption. Don’t judge gays by the 1% of activist gays or the straight lawmakers who want to be seen as “progressive.”
Drama and sensationalism are part of how things become viral. Surely you recognize that. This has nothing to do with gay issues specifically, but surely if the Honey Badger video has more views than the It Gets Better project, you understand why the It Gets Better project has more views than a random document that I have never heard publicized before today in any forum, even by religiously-minded.
I’m aware. Hence why I said I’m still celibate. I don’t judge those who commit the sinful behavior though. They necessarily do not understand the true importance of abstaining from homosexual behavior and thus likely do not have the culpability required for a mortal sin. I still make the effort to lead them out of sin and into Christ though.
S
SMGS127
Guest
Have you BEEN to an LGBT support group? Gays badmouth transgender people all the time. Granted, they are a minority of gays, but so is the percentage of straights who commit violence and harassment towards gays, and that’s still an epidemic too.
Except that’s not [just] what’s being illegalized. It is uncharitable to make it illegal to ban gays from living their life. It is the #1 way to get them to never join the Church to tell them that they can either join or go to jail.
So, if a person born biologically male is only attracted to women and has a sex “change” operation to “become” a woman, does that mean that they are a lesbian? Or a ‘gay’ male who is only attracted to women? Please enlighten me on this confusing issue
.(P.S. homosexuality and transsexuality are different issues)
T
Tarquin
Guest
You are being rude. I don’t think it matters whether I have “BEEN” to any LGBT support group or not, as far as the discussion is concerned. But so you and others who are so emotionally wrapped up in the issue that they can’t think straight, can pay attention to what my actual words are, instead of what they imagine my feelings and unstated opinions are, yes, I have. So let’s see if gnosisofthomas takes your experience or mine as the basis for accusing one of us as saying “all gays” are like that.
I obviously use the word “epidemic” differently from you. Violence and harrasment against gays isn’t all that widespread where I live. I’ve searched for reports of epidemic violence and harassment against gays in the Washington, D.C. area, but the search has so far not been very productive. Perhaps you would provide some links to reports that I could examine. Thanks.
J
JRJOHNSON
Guest
With violence against gays in Russia, truth is that Russian men pretended to be 15 year old boys by going on gay websites and set up meetings with gays hoping to meet teenagers. Russian men then bashed the gays and put the images on Internet. Yes, the Russian men did vigilanteism and right thing to do is call the police who arrest the gays, with courts deciding the punishment. The gays by searching for teenage boys were soliciting minors and who we must sympathize with the minor boys who the gays were looking to abuse.is the percentage of straights who commit violence and harassment towards gays, and that’s still an epidemic too.
Except that’s not [just] what’s being illegalized. It is uncharitable to make it illegal to ban gays from living their life. It is the #1 way to get them to never join the Church to tell them that they can either join or go to jail.
So, if a person born biologically male is only attracted to women and has a sex “change” operation to “become” a woman, does that mean that they are a lesbian? Or a ‘gay’ male who is only attracted to women? Please enlighten me on this confusing issue
(P.S. homosexuality and transsexuality are different issues)
With harassment, there is no need for a man to tolerate gays doing antisocial conduct. Gays have no right to solicit minors and gays have to right to go into public restrooms to solicit sex. Dan K. Savage sees nothing wrong with gays soliciting minors and Dan K. Savage sees nothing wrong with gays soliciting men in public restrooms. Public restrooms are the place to use toilet and wash 1 self. If somebody wants to do gay/lesbian conduct with other willing adults, then do it at home or make your proposition (straight or gay) there or in a bar. Propositioning others in a bathroom is illegal. It’s also illegal to repeatedly proposition (straight or gay) after no has been said. Men must not tolerate antisocial conduct by gays. With laws against gay/lesbian conduct. If a nation wants to make same sex behaviors a crime, then we have no right to meddle as long as it doesn’t involve cruel and unusual punishment. Gay/lesbian conduct needs to be marginalized the same way as smoking is.
Yes, they are gay/lesbian because they mutilated themselves to become fake opposite sex member. Before mutilation, they were straight if they had opposite sex relations. But once they got themselves mutilated, they became transsexual and all transsexuals are gay/lesbian because they were mutilated.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Exactly.
S
Seamus_L
Guest
I’ve e-mailed Vladimir Putin at his official site, and congratulated him and the Russian people on the passage of this law. I also urged him to enforce the law during next year’s Winter Olympics in Sochi.
J
jmcrae
Guest
It’s called the LBGT movement. Lesbian, Bisexual, Gay, and Transsexual.
Of course, within the next ten years there will be two Ps added to the acronym, for Polygamists (and Polyandrists as well - wouldn’t want to leave the women out), and Pedophiles - they are already starting to demand equal rights, even now.
I
InSearchofGrace
Guest
S
SMGS127
Guest
Putting emphasis on a word is not being rude; would you prefer I used italics next time?
. It does matter if you’ve been to a support group or part of the community; how do you know what gays say about transgender people if you never actually go into gay neighborhoods, meetings, or communities and talk to them?I am also not “emotionally wrapped up” in this issue, anymore than I am “emotionally wrapped up” when I discuss how horrible abortion is or how Catholic businesses shouldn’t be forced to provide birth control. You only see it that way because you don’t agree with me.
Finally, if you would like to see the epidemic it is, I challenge you to live a month as a gay person. Don’t ACTUALLY do anything or promote gay behavior (after all, I would never ask someone to sin on a “challenge”), but wear rainbow paraphernelia or equal signs, hang out in gay neighborhoods, and act fairly gender neutral. Believe me, by the end of the month, you will take back every word you said.
Uhhh none of this is really gay-specific…how about we just say “promiscuous conduct needs to be marginalized.” It’s much more appropriate and promiscuity is orientation-irrelevant anyway.
That’s…what
. That doesn’t even make sense. So someone who has a sex “change” operation, in your view, is gay no matter who they like. So in your opinion, they’re both sexes at the same time?That doesn’t make sense either. Just because “T” is in the movement title doesn’t mean there isn’t significant debate over it. Again, people need to actually go to LGBT support groups and Pride events. Talk like this shows a complete ignorance of how real life gay people actually think about issues.
Also no member of the LGBT community supports pedophilia -_-. NAMBLA is almost entirely made up of heterosexual men, even though they’re also pedophiles.
Well, after that ‘enlightening’ post, I will actually call you patronizing. It shows one’s ability to discuss an issue when they have to resort to talking about someone’s background to make their point. If you have a point to make, make it. But again, I am no more “close” to this issue than I am to abortion (I am alive, after all) or birth control (as a woman) or Catholic religious liberty (as a Catholic). Do I not have rights to oppose abortion & birth control and support religious liberty?
V
VanSensei
Guest
Here’s my two cents, not taking a stance for Russia’s laws, but rather for the Olympics as a whole:
Athletes, regardless of what they are, should not be using the Olympics to vocalize their own political stance at all. I liken it to John Carlos & Tommie Smith in the 1968 Mexico City games. They raised the Black Power sign after a win on the podium and the IOC kicked them out for that. An athlete is delegated there to represent their country and show quality sportsmanship in what they do. Not make a political facade.
Athletes, regardless of what they are, should not be using the Olympics to vocalize their own political stance at all. I liken it to John Carlos & Tommie Smith in the 1968 Mexico City games. They raised the Black Power sign after a win on the podium and the IOC kicked them out for that. An athlete is delegated there to represent their country and show quality sportsmanship in what they do. Not make a political facade.
- Status