Gender roles in marriage. Do some men just have a problem with women?

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Sarcelle said:
The popularity of “Fifty Shaded of Gray” proved that some women like the idea of being dominated.
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Of course there’s always the question of whether women like the idea of it or the practice of it. Lots of people like the idea of things that they don’t necessarily want to be their entire lives.
 
I think there’s also the fantasy of not being responsible or “at fault”.

It kind of reminds me of the early “bodice rippers” that became popular when the sexual revolution was beginning.
Usually a prim, virginal girl would get raped by the rakish, untamable rogue, but through her sweetness (she wasn’t like all his former lovers) would win him to her side and they’d end up being married.
So—she could be virtuous AND sexually experienced, and if she got pregnant, there would be the drama of the cruel society judging her for something totally not her fault.

In real life, such a story arc would be unspeakably traumatizing, but in a novel, sounds like fun.
 
Sarcelle said:
They hate women and then wonder why women won’t have sex with them.
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Or they expect that any woman they’d sleep with must look like a Victoria’s Secret model, and don’t understand why women like that aren’t going for an overweight 35 year old with iffy hygiene living in his parents basement.
 
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DarkLight said:
And let’s be honest, there are a lot of historical models that really did look down on women.
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Having a realistic picture of women is not the same as looking down on them.
How much are we actually talking about how masculinity has played out for men across history, and how it should be represented in our society?
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I thought we were talking about the new and improved, alternative, feminist-friendly, Catholic model of “masculinity”.
 
Take note gents. Feminism took off due to a pair of factors.
  1. Labor-saving devices that freed up lots of time for women.
  2. Prosperity that created a whole class of idle upper-class women who provided the intellectual firepower behind the movement.
 
WingedHussar said:
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DarkLight:
And let’s be honest, there are a lot of historical models that really did look down on women.
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Having a realistic picture of women is not the same as looking down on them.
How much are we actually talking about how masculinity has played out for men across history, and how it should be represented in our society?
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I thought we were talking about the new and improved, alternative, feminist-friendly, Catholic model of “masculinity”.
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@DarkLight is right. There are societies that look down on women. India and China wouldn’t be having a gender imbalance if that wasn’t the case.
 
Seeing as the only thing women can do that men cannot is bear the next generation, and feminism will tell us that no individual woman has that duty, why is there a problem?
 
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WingedHussar said:
Seeing as the only thing women can do that men cannot is bear the next generation, and feminism will tell us that no individual woman has that duty, why is there a problem?
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The Church never taught that motherhood is a requirement. That idea of freedom to choose to become a wife and mother didn’t come from feminists.

You really think there is no problem with the killing of female infants because they were born female?
 
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WingedHussar said:
I thought we were talking about the new and improved, alternative, feminist-friendly, Catholic model of “masculinity”.
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I am really not sure where you’re getting this from. It sounds a lot like you’re reading your stereotype of what a generic feminist says into what I said.

“Feminist” isn’t a synonym for “wrong” anyway. There are serious problems with the movement, but that doesn’t mean they’re wrong about many of the problems of the past.
WingedHussar said:
Having a realistic picture of women is not the same as looking down on them.
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You’ll note I immediately followed that with the note that historically, many societies treated women legally as in the same position as minors - a position which the Catholic Church has explicitly condemned.
 
Interestingly, even before the era of labor saving devices (early 20th century) there were lady reformers who tried to fight against things like slavery, prostitution, child labor.
They also fought for votes for women and public education .

It’s intersting how various threads of history and technology become interwoven
 
You mean, the way the Catholic church has traditionally interpreted it, that marital sex ought to be oriented to life and sexuality ought to be restricted to marriage, but that the choice of any individual to remain single is valid and if done for God even laudatory?

I really don’t understand what you’re trying to argue here.
 
You are trying to argue from exception. If the vast majority of us joined a religious order, our numbers would decrease rapidly. We would then be running contrary to God’s command. Thankfully we have Matthew 19:12 which clarifies that a select number are called to celibacy and the religious life.

To use a military analogy, priests, monks, and nuns are the special operations forces of the Church Militant. They do not win the war by themselves, but are essential even though they are vastly outnumbered by the regular infantry.
 
I have no clue what you even think I’m arguing.

Like I said above, the impression I’m getting is much more that you have some sort of vague idea of what a feminist should say and are putting those words in my mouth. Can you quote what I (or any other poster in this thread) actually said that you’re arguing against here? Because I don’t see a single person here who said that we shouldn’t get married or shouldn’t have children as a general rule for women.
 
To return the original point, the claim was made that China and India are facing a problem in the form of a gender imbalance. I want to know why this is a problem. The only thing women can do that men cannot is bear the next generation. However expecting any individual woman to have that duty runs contrary to feminism. So why is the gender imbalance a problem?
 
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EmilyAlexandra said:
Let me explain where I’m coming from. My husband was my childhood best friend and sweetheart. We were engaged at 19 and married at 21. At the point at which I decided to spend the rest of my life with him, I wasn’t thinking about practical things like how he would provide for me.
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It’s possible your marriage is in the minority?
 
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