Genesis 3:14-15

[Vico]

How did they have the capability to avoid mortal sin forever when they were not created perfect?

And where does it say they had the capability to avoid mortal sin forever?

God gives all the just sufficient grace (gratia proxime vel remote sufliciens) for the observation of the Divine Commandments. (De fide.)

Council of Trent,

Can. 18. If anyone shall say that the commandments of God are even for a man who is justified and confirmed in grace impossible to observe: let him be anathema.

1 Cor. 10, 13 : And God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above what you are able: but will make also with temptation issue. that you may be able to bear it.

 

[BobCatholic]

God gives all the just sufficient grace (gratia proxime vel remote sufliciens) for the observation of the Divine Commandments. (De fide.)

Council of Trent,

Can. 18. If anyone shall say that the commandments of God are even for a man who is justified and confirmed in grace impossible to observe: let him be anathema.

1 Cor. 10, 13 : And God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above what you are able: but will make also with temptation issue. that you may be able to bear it.

Both your quotes are about post fall people. Not about Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve were created imperfect and it was only a matter of time before they failed. Buggy software crashes.

But let’s talk with the post fall.

I do believe it is possible to follow God’s commandments while in a state of grace. However, it is ridiculously difficult to do so. Then there’s the question of “how do I know I’m in a state of grace in an actual, real, and full sense” - defined as “God sees me in the same way, and I’m not fooling myself.” when God refuses to tell me. None of this “morally certain” I’m talking about “my view of my state of grace status is the same as God’s view” so I don’t think I’m in a state of grace but God has already pressed the down button on the elevator for me.

I see the scales out of balance. To go to heaven, it requires horrific suffering to cooperate with God’s grace. To go to hell, just exist. It is ridiculously hard to go to heaven, it is ridiculously easy to go to hell. That’s out of balance.

God’s grace is fragile. It is ridiculously easy to lose it.

In addition, God puts things in my life I cannot handle frequently. I have at least three really long stretches of unemployment. He broke his promise there.

I have a catch-22 getting in the way of me getting stable employment, and there’s no way around it for me. God could easily get around it for me but he chooses not to. When God closes a door, he refuses to open another.

So there’s at least 4 times God broke his promise. And I’m supposed to trust him?

 

[Vico]

Both your quotes are about post fall people. Not about Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve were created imperfect and it was only a matter of time before they failed. Buggy software crashes.

But let’s talk with the post fall.

I do believe it is possible to follow God’s commandments while in a state of grace. However, it is ridiculously difficult to do so. Then there’s the question of “how do I know I’m in a state of grace in an actual, real, and full sense” - defined as “God sees me in the same way, and I’m not fooling myself.” when God refuses to tell me. None of this “morally certain” I’m talking about “my view of my state of grace status is the same as God’s view” so I don’t think I’m in a state of grace but God has already pressed the down button on the elevator for me.

I see the scales out of balance. To go to heaven, it requires horrific suffering to cooperate with God’s grace. To go to hell, just exist. It is ridiculously hard to go to heaven, it is ridiculously easy to go to hell. That’s out of balance.

God’s grace is fragile. It is ridiculously easy to lose it.

In addition, God puts things in my life I cannot handle frequently. I have at least three really long stretches of unemployment. He broke his promise there.

I have a catch-22 getting in the way of me getting stable employment, and there’s no way around it for me. God could easily get around it for me but he chooses not to. When God closes a door, he refuses to open another.

So there’s at least 4 times God broke his promise. And I’m supposed to trust him?

For Adam and Eve could remain free from mortal sin see St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, I, II, Q109

I answer that, We may speak of man in two ways: first, in the state of perfect nature; secondly, in the state of corrupted nature. Now in the state of perfect nature, man, without habitual grace, could avoid sinning either mortally or venially; since to sin is nothing else than to stray from what is according to our nature–and in the state of perfect nature man could avoid this. Nevertheless he could not have done it without God’s help to uphold him in good, since if this had been withdrawn, even his nature would have fallen back into nothingness.

This idea of Michael du Bay was condemned by St. Pope Pius V [Condemned in the Bull “Ex omnibus afflictionibus,” Oct. 1, 1567]:

1. Therefore original sin truly has the essence of sin without any relation and respect to will, from which it had its origin.

I know nothing about any personal promises that God made to you, so I cannot comment on that, but living is physically difficult, but the spiritual burden is is easy with Christ, remaining in the state of grace, as he said:

Matthew 11:
28 Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you.
29 Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.
30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.

 

[jcrichton]

For Adam and Eve could remain free from mortal sin see St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, I, II, Q109

I answer that, We may speak of man in two ways: first, in the state of perfect nature; secondly, in the state of corrupted nature. Now in the state of perfect nature, man, without habitual grace, could avoid sinning either mortally or venially; since to sin is nothing else than to stray from what is according to our nature–and in the state of perfect nature man could avoid this. Nevertheless he could not have done it without God’s help to uphold him in good, since if this had been withdrawn, even his nature would have fallen back into nothingness.

This idea of Michael du Bay was condemned by St. Pope Pius V [Condemned in the Bull “Ex omnibus afflictionibus,” Oct. 1, 1567]:

1. Therefore original sin truly has the essence of sin without any relation and respect to will, from which it had its origin.

I know nothing about any personal promises that God made to you, so I cannot comment on that, but living is physically difficult, but the spiritual burden is is easy with Christ, remaining in the state of grace, as he said:

Matthew 11:
28 Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you.
29 Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.
30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.

Hi, Vico!

…I just wanted to interject on the comment I’ve highlighted… I don’t think that Christ’s invitation is limited to the spiritual plane; rather, I believe that Christ is actually engaging us from a Spiritual plane into our own life’s experiences… consider this passage in the light of Philippians 4:

18 But I have all, and abound: I am filled, having received from Epaphroditus the things you sent, an odour of sweetness, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God. 19 And may my God supply all your want, according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.

(Philippians 4:18-19)
God’s Providence is not simply spiritual credit that the Believers will one day receive but God’s assurance that He is with us every step of the way (St. Matthew 6:25-34 and specially St. Matthew 6:11).

Merry Christmas!
Maran atha!

Angel

 

[BobCatholic]

For Adam and Eve could remain free from mortal sin see St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, I, II, Q109

I answer that, We may speak of man in two ways: first, in the state of perfect nature; secondly, in the state of corrupted nature. Now in the state of perfect nature, man, without habitual grace, could avoid sinning either mortally or venially; since to sin is nothing else than to stray from what is according to our nature–and in the state of perfect nature man could avoid this. Nevertheless he could not have done it without God’s help to uphold him in good, since if this had been withdrawn, even his nature would have fallen back into nothingness.

Yes, in the perfect nature, which the angels and Mary had, they can avoid sinning at all because they’re perfect.

Adam and Eve were created imperfectly. They had the imperfection of pride, naivete, stupidity and/or fear.

I know nothing about any personal promises that God made to you,

I was talking about the verse you posted.

God permits my suffering many times, that are above my ability to handle it. I mentioned at least 4 times. So he broke that promise.

Matthew 11:
28 Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you.
29 Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.
30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.

The rest comes in the afterlife, not here on earth. Here on earth, we are held temporally responsible for the sins of our ancestors.

 

[Vico]

Yes, in the perfect nature, which the angels and Mary had, they can avoid sinning at all because they’re perfect.

Adam and Eve were created imperfectly. They had the imperfection of pride, naivete, stupidity and/or fear.

I was talking about the verse you posted.

God permits my suffering many times, that are above my ability to handle it. I mentioned at least 4 times. So he broke that promise.

The rest comes in the afterlife, not here on earth. Here on earth, we are held temporally responsible for the sins of our ancestors.

Catechism:

1745 Freedom characterizes properly human acts. It makes the human being responsible for acts of which he is the voluntary agent. His deliberate acts properly belong to him.

As mentioned before, God gives all the just sufficient grace (gratia proxime vel remote sufliciens) for the observation of the Divine Commandments, which is a dogma of faith. It is not necessary to be perfect to be free from mortal sin for a man who is justified and confirmed in grace. True for mankind now, and Adam and Eve had an advantage also of preternatural grace, in addition.

Council of Trent,
Can. 18. If anyone shall say that the commandments of God are even for a man who is justified and confirmed in grace impossible to observe: let him be anathema.

1 Cor. 10, 13 : And God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above what you are able: but will make also with temptation issue. that you may be able to bear it.

 

[BobCatholic]

Catechism:

1745 Freedom characterizes properly human acts. It makes the human being responsible for acts of which he is the voluntary agent. His deliberate acts properly belong to him.

As mentioned before, God gives all the just sufficient grace (gratia proxime vel remote sufliciens) for the observation of the Divine Commandments, which is a dogma of faith. It is not necessary to be perfect to be free from mortal sin for a man who is justified and confirmed in grace. True for mankind now, and Adam and Eve had an advantage also of preternatural grace, in addition.

How is freedom defined in the Catechism?

Tell me, are you saying that grace prevents people from sinning? If that is the case, Adam and Eve didn’t have it. And clearly neither do I because I keep going to confession.

Is it a dogma of the faith that God’s grace can overcome every imperfection?

Council of Trent,
Can. 18. If anyone shall say that the commandments of God are even for a man who is justified and confirmed in grace impossible to observe: let him be anathema.

1 Cor. 10, 13 : And God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above what you are able: but will make also with temptation issue. that you may be able to bear it.

Again, I never said it was impossible to observe. I said it was horrendously difficult.

Tell me, why does it require horrific amounts of suffering and difficulty to go to heaven, while to go to hell, just exist?

This indicates that life is just a treadmill that keeps going faster and faster and faster and I’m only going to fall off (spiritually speaking).

This is way out of balance and does not indicate we have freedom here.

 

[Vico]

How is freedom defined in the Catechism?

Tell me, are you saying that grace prevents people from sinning? If that is the case, Adam and Eve didn’t have it. And clearly neither do I because I keep going to confession.

Is it a dogma of the faith that God’s grace can overcome every imperfection?

Again, I never said it was impossible to observe. I said it was horrendously difficult.

Tell me, why does it require horrific amounts of suffering and difficulty to go to heaven, while to go to hell, just exist?

This indicates that life is just a treadmill that keeps going faster and faster and faster and I’m only going to fall off (spiritually speaking).

This is way out of balance and does not indicate we have freedom here.

Free will cooperation with grace can prevent every sin. Since it requires cooperation, once the state of sanctifying grace is obtained, only the lack of will to do good will cause failure. It is only mortal sin the destroys charity but venial sin wounds charity, and both types of sin are imperfect behavior.

Once justified a person can avoid all sins, even venial sins. This is a dogma of faith from Council of Trent, Sess. VI, canon 23 (Denzinger 833):

833 Can. 23. If anyone shall say that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he who falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the contrary, that throughout his whole life he can avoid all sins even venial sins, except by a special privilege of God, as the Church holds in regard to the Blessed Virgin: let him be anathema [cf. n. 805, 810].

From the Catechism:

Providence and the scandal of evil.

310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it? With infinite power God could always create something better.174 But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world “in a state of journeying” towards its ultimate perfection. In God’s plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection.175

311 Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has moral evil, incommensurably more harmful than physical evil, entered the world. God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil.176 He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it:

For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.177

Man’s Freedom

1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26

Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.27​

 

[BobCatholic]

Free will cooperation with grace can prevent every sin.

And that’s the rub - I’m imperfect. I fail. I do not know how free my will is due to the huge amount of imperfections I have.

Since it requires cooperation, once the state of sanctifying grace is obtained, only the lack of will to do good will cause failure. It is only mortal sin the destroys charity but venial sin wounds charity, and both types of sin are imperfect behavior.

Since my will is imperfect and I have no way of making it perfect through my own means, therefore my will is useless in this area.

Once justified a person can avoid all sins, even venial sins. This is a dogma of faith from Council of Trent, Sess. VI, canon 23 (Denzinger 833):

833 Can. 23. If anyone shall say that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he who falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the contrary, that throughout his whole life he can avoid all sins even venial sins, except by a special privilege of God, as the Church holds in regard to the Blessed Virgin: let him be anathema [cf. n. 805, 810].

I hate to say this, but this section says the opposite of what you’re saying. That section was used to refute the OSAS heresy, and specifically addressed that.

310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it? With infinite power God could always create something better.174 But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world “in a state of journeying” towards its ultimate perfection. In God’s plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection.175

But if I’m unable to become perfect and I’m stuck in my current imperfect state with zero hope of doing it myself, the only way for it to happen is if God does it. The question is if God doesn’t will it, game over, I’m doomed.

For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.177

And if God will does not include the willingness to give me the assistance that only he can, for me to become perfect, game over. There is no hope.

Man’s Freedom

1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26

Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.27[/INDENT]

This doesn’t define freedom.

I know there is a difference between license (“I am permitted do whatever I want”) versus freedom, which I think means “I am permitted do what is right.”

In addition, God did not give me the dignity of being able to initiate being perfect since I can’t do that without his help.

 

[Vico]

And that’s the rub - I’m imperfect. I fail. I do not know how free my will is due to the huge amount of imperfections I have.

Since my will is imperfect and I have no way of making it perfect through my own means, therefore my will is useless in this area.

I hate to say this, but this section says the opposite of what you’re saying. That section was used to refute the OSAS heresy, and specifically addressed that.

But if I’m unable to become perfect and I’m stuck in my current imperfect state with zero hope of doing it myself, the only way for it to happen is if God does it. The question is if God doesn’t will it, game over, I’m doomed.

And if God will does not include the willingness to give me the assistance that only he can, for me to become perfect, game over. There is no hope.

This doesn’t define freedom.

I know there is a difference between license (“I am permitted do whatever I want”) versus freedom, which I think means “I am permitted do what is right.”

In addition, God did not give me the dignity of being able to initiate being perfect since I can’t do that without his help.

There is no mortal sin without free will so imputability is effected by “ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.” As the Catechism explains:

I. FREEDOM AND RESPONSIBILITY

1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.

1733 The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to "the slavery of sin."28

1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts.

1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.

I pasted the wrong quote from Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma. Here is the correct one from p. 240:

1. God’s universal desire for salvation in its practical operation

a) God gives all the just sufficient grace (gratia proxime vel remote sufliciens) for the observation of the Divine Commandments. (De fide.)

Gratia proxime sufficiens enables one to perform a salutary act directly; Gratia remote sufficiens enables one to perform an act which disposes one to receive grace to perform a salutary act, e.g., the grace of prayer in a person lacking sanctifying grace.

The Second Council of Orange. having already stated this doctrine (D 200), the Council of Trent declared that God’s commandments are not incapable of fulfilment by man: Si quis dixerit, Dei praecepta hormini etiam iustificato et sub gratia constituto esse ad observandum impossibilia, A.S. D 828. The contrary teaching of Jansenius was rejected by the Church as heretical. D 1092. According to the testimony of Holy Writ, God directs His special care towards the just. Cf. Ps. 32, 18 et seq., 36, 25 et seq., Mt. 12, SO ; John 14, 21 ; Rom. 5, 8-10. God’s commandments are easily fulfilled by the just; Mt. 11, 30, “My yoke is sweet, and my burden is light.” 1 John 5, 3 et seq. : “For this is the charity of God: when we love God and keep His commandments. And His commandments are not heavy. For whatsoever is born of God ovcrcometh the world.” 1 Cor. 10, 13 : “And God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above what you are able: but will make also with temptation issue. that you may be able to bear it.”

St. Augustine advanced the proposition whtch was adopted by the Council of Trent: “God does not abandon the just unless they first abandon Him.” D 804 ;
cf. St. Aug., De nat. et grato 26, 29.

From reason it is clear that God is obliged by His fidelity to bestow sufficient grace on the just to enable them to reach Heaven to which they have been called.

 

[BobCatholic]

There is no mortal sin without free will so imputability is effected by “ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.”

If you recall, it says those who didn’t do God’s will, will get lashes, while those who didn’t do God’s will due to ignorance get fewer lashes.

I don’t want to get ANY lashes!

I don’t want to count on those things to get to heaven. I want to count on Christ.

1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

Reason is important, but my imperfections are negatively affecting my reason. I am begging God to remove the imperfections so my reasoning will be sound - and thus I can make better decisions that would please God and then he could stop punishing me.

1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.

But it is ridiculously easy to fail and horrendously difficult to growing in perfection. The scales are out of balance.

2. God’s universal desire for salvation in its practical operation
​

a) God gives all the just sufficient grace (gratia proxime vel remote sufliciens) for the observation of the Divine Commandments. (De fide.)

Gratia proxime sufficiens enables one to perform a salutary act directly; Gratia remote sufficiens enables one to perform an act which disposes one to receive grace to perform a salutary act, e.g., the grace of prayer in a person lacking sanctifying grace.

And how do I get this grace that enables me to perform an act to receive grace to perform a salutary act.

God’s commandments are easily fulfilled by the just;

But to get to that state, it takes a horrific amount of pain and suffering - that is not easy by any stretch of the imagination.

From reason it is clear that God is obliged by His fidelity to bestow sufficient grace on the just to enable them to reach Heaven to which they have been called.

OK, then what do I do when he wills not to?

I’ve already had 4 incidents of broken promise.​

 

[Vico]

If you recall, it says those who didn’t do God’s will, will get lashes, while those who didn’t do God’s will due to ignorance get fewer lashes.
I don’t want to get ANY lashes!
I don’t want to count on those things to get to heaven. I want to count on Christ.
Reason is important, but my imperfections are negatively affecting my reason. I am begging God to remove the imperfections so my reasoning will be sound - and thus I can make better decisions that would please God and then he could stop punishing me.
But it is ridiculously easy to fail and horrendously difficult to growing in perfection. The scales are out of balance.
And how do I get this grace that enables me to perform an act to receive grace to perform a salutary act.
But to get to that state, it takes a horrific amount of pain and suffering - that is not easy by any stretch of the imagination.
OK, then what do I do when he wills not to?
I’ve already had 4 incidents of broken promise.

Prayer got God for help is very good and to the Blessed Virgin Mary and to the saints and to the guardian angel.

If lashes are eternal punishment then mortal sin must be avoided. If lashes are also temporal punishment then even venial sins must be avoided.

God is always willing to forgive those that repent and have proper contrition. For a salutary act there must be at least actual grace, whether a person is in the state of grace or not. For meritorious act one must be in the state of grace. Sanctifying grace enables one to have an increase of sanctifying grace also.

The sacraments that restore sanctifying grace are called the sacraments of the dead which are baptism, confession, and anointing of the sick.

The sacraments that increase sanctifying grace are called the sacraments of the living which are confirmation, the Eucharist, matrimony, and the priesthood.

Baltimore Catechism:

Q. 313. Why are the seven sources of sin called capital sins?

A. The seven sources of sin are called capital sins because they rule over our other sins and are the causes of them.

Q. 314. What do we mean by our predominant sin or ruling passion?

A. By our predominant sin, or ruling passion, we mean the sin into which we fall most frequently and which we find it hardest to resist.

Q. 315. How can we best overcome our sins?

A. We can best overcome our sins by guarding against our predominant or ruling sin.

Q. 316. Should we give up trying to be good when we seem not to succeed in overcoming our faults?

A. We should not give up trying to be good when we seem not to succeed in overcoming our faults, because our efforts to be good will keep us from becoming worse than we are.

Q. 317. What virtues are opposed to the seven capital sins?

A. Humility is opposed to pride; generosity to covetousness; chastity to lust; meekness to anger; temperance to gluttony; brotherly love to envy, and diligence to sloth.

 

[BobCatholic]

Prayer got God for help is very good and to the Blessed Virgin Mary and to the saints and to the guardian angel.

Prayer is a monologue for me. When God says no, my prayer is ineffective and useless.

In addition, prayer is subject to God’s will - which is arbitrary and capricious to me.

IF God rejects a request for something good but doesn’t want to provide the better, then what should I do?

then what do I do when he wills not to?

I’ve already had 4 incidents of broken promise.

 

[goout]

IF God rejects a request for something good but doesn’t want to provide the better, then what should I do?

then what do I do when he wills not to?

Be grateful for what you have?

 

[BobCatholic]

Be grateful for what you have?

which is insufficient for my vocation, which means God has vetoed my vocation of father and husband by punishing me for doing that horrible thing. Should I now divorce the wife I love and abandon my son?

Of course not.

 

[NM505StKate]

…13Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” And the woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” 14The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life; 15And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.

Im having trouble with this, from the verse, God appears to be very upset at Satan for doing this (tempting adam and eve in such a way), but isnt it true Satan can ONLY do what God allows him to do, when it comes to interaction with humans?

Why would God be so upset and punish him when God allowed him to do this in the first place?

I also do not understand 15, how is enmity put between Satan and Eve, how could Satan have a ‘seed’?

Seed more means offspring. The writer of this story, in my opinion, was trying to explain why snakes were hostile critters to humans. Also it was retconned that the serpent in Genesis was Satan. The Jewish people don’t have Satan as a concept so it is ridiculous to find him in the old testament. Yes I know about Job but that is Ha-Satan which is someone different.

 

[Vico]

Prayer is a monologue for me. When God says no, my prayer is ineffective and useless.

In addition, prayer is subject to God’s will - which is arbitrary and capricious to me.

IF God rejects a request for something good but doesn’t want to provide the better, then what should I do?

then what do I do when he wills not to?

I’ve already had 4 incidents of broken promise.

Response that you can perceive is not important, after all you said you were imperfect, so how do you know that your “receiver” is not broken.

What is important is the grace of the Holy Spirit which is received through the sacraments.

 

[BobCatholic]

Response that you can perceive is not important, after all you said you were imperfect, so how do you know that your “receiver” is not broken.

I am open to the idea my receiver is broken. All the more reason I need God to fix it.

So how do I convince God to fix my imperfections so he can stop punishing me?

What is important is the grace of the Holy Spirit which is received through the sacraments.

Since I am imperfect, I have no idea if I still have that grace. A moral certainty may be enough for some, but not for me. I need to be certain. How does one ascertain that they’re in the same state of grace/non-grace that God sees? Since I am imperfect, I can fool myself into thinking I’m in the state of grace.

 

[Vico]

I am open to the idea my receiver is broken. All the more reason I need God to fix it.

So how do I convince God to fix my imperfections so he can stop punishing me?

Since I am imperfect, I have no idea if I still have that grace. A moral certainty may be enough for some, but not for me. I need to be certain. How does one ascertain that they’re in the same state of grace/non-grace that God sees? Since I am imperfect, I can fool myself into thinking I’m in the state of grace.

It is normal to sin less seriously at least sometimes. It is unrealistic to expect perfection of that kind. As posted before from the Catechism, it takes years of practice and penance, but we will be perfected in purgatory at least. Temporal punishments help to break our attachment to sin so are medicinal.

 

[BobCatholic]

It is normal to sin less seriously at least sometimes. It is unrealistic to expect perfection of that kind. As posted before from the Catechism, it takes years of practice and penance, but we will be perfected in purgatory at least. Temporal punishments help to break our attachment to sin so are medicinal.

Not all are medicinal. The one about everyone else being kicked out of the Garden of Eden was just harsh.