George Zimmerman makes initial court appearance in Trayvon Martin shooting, will plead not guilty

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catharina said:
And disregard 911’s instruction.
That’s a PLAN!
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:rolleyes:

Look, I have no idea whether Zimmerman is guilty of murder in the 2nd degree or manslaughter, but to imply that he set out with a plan to kill someone without any witnesses and makes calling 911 part of that plan defies logic.
 
vz71 said:
Those that are making that argument are slick.
He feels that way because it was his first…the first always weighs heavily.

Let’s not let evidence get in the way of a good story.
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mother of victim says yes thats sons voice yelling for help on police radio,
 
rlg94086 said:
:rolleyes:

Look, I have no idea whether Zimmerman is guilty of murder in the 2nd degree or manslaughter, but to imply that he set out with a plan to kill someone without any witnesses and makes calling 911 part of that plan defies logic.
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Yep - so I have never implied that.
 
catharina said:
Now, in this case: VOILA! dark, rainy night, teen alone, No witnesses. Perfect
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rlg94086 said:
Sure. He had a quite a plan…first, call 911… :rolleyes:
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catharina said:
And disregard 911’s instruction.
That’s a PLAN!
Click to expand...
rlg94086 said:
:rolleyes:

Look, I have no idea whether Zimmerman is guilty of murder in the 2nd degree or manslaughter, but to imply that he set out with a plan to kill someone without any witnesses and makes calling 911 part of that plan defies logic.
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catharina said:
Yep - so I have never implied that.
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Indeed. You didn’t imply it. You stated it clearly, by saying “That’s a PLAN.”
 
jen_fla said:
well we are finally on the same page regarding no one knows what happened and that we all need to peacefully sit back and see how the justice system handles this.

as to the racial point you made, forgive me, but it’s silly. we have NO evidence that he was a racist or that he was racially profiling. of course he could be a talented actor and so you could or i, but without ANY evidence to point to such, it just isn’t right to question or wonder if someone is. those accusations are very damaging and as you can see, they are being used to fan the flames of a race war. the comments i have heard coming from various racial groups have been shocking and down right scary.

why would you wonder, when there is no evidence? should i wonder aloud or insinuate that you or anyone here on caf might hate the elderly or women? no! clearly that would be wrong without any evidence. the guys life has been put in danger over these accusations.

so again, we have NO evidence that he was a racist or that he racially profiled trayvon. what we DO have is black people sticking up for him saying that he had black friends and that he mentored a black family. there also is reporting that he used his free time to hand out flyers trying to seek justice for the black homeless man that was beat.

he may or may not be guilty in the death of trayvon, but let’s leave racial accusations out of it, until we have some evidence. nobody wants a race war.

blessings to you as well and thanks for the laugh. i now am visualizing a discussion with the unabomber gone bald! 😃

long live the hoodie! i think they look best on Franciscan friars though.
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Long live the hoodie, indeed…:D:p

The thing is-----------

If racial profiling was not done here, what was exactly the reason GZ seemed to focus on TM?

Because he was “looking into people’s houses?” What exactly does that mean?

We definitaly need to find that out. TM was walking home from the store after buying food for his brother. What in heaven’sname could make GZ determine that TM was “acting suspiciously?”

And are we supposed to simply take his word for it---------“trust me—he looked suspicious?” No------that is why the trial is going on-----the state of Florida determined that GZ’s interpretation of what may have happened was wrong and lead to a wrongful death.

We will find out more when the trial occurs----thank God--------but even some people sympathetic to GZ have said that a lot of what he said happned does not make sense.

We DO know he referred to “punks getting away with things.” Maybe he correlated (assumed) the hoodie and what HE interpreted as (in a non-racial way) suspicious behavior amounted to TM being a possible “punk” doing criminal activity and acted accordingly?🤷

In that case, it COULD still boils down to overreaction on GZ’s part and reckless behavior and POSSIBLE (again, possible) vigilantism.

Even TM’s parents are saying that this was more about possible vigilantism than race.

At least overreaction-----he said he saw TM reach for something----which would sort of substantiate his claim-------but the quesion is, was it reasonable for GZ to have started on that path to TM in the first place? Maybe his paranoia and jumpiness got the better of him and he went in with an aggressive personality. Maybe it was the opposite that happened, as well.

And what exactly happened when he said “OK?” Some say they hear him slamming the door----either getting out of the car or into the car------------did he think he was going to be shot or did he think he was going to kill this “punk” already?

We need to straighten this out and answer these legitimate questions.

BTW-----it is NOT silly to say there is no evidence that he could have racist feelings. I have relatives who say they love everybody----have even dated and married (one of them) an African-American-----and they STILL harbor racist sentiments towards them.

Just saying. Good night, anyway.
 
catharina said:
And disregard 911’s instruction.
That’s a PLAN!
Click to expand...
Calgar said:
So you think that Zimmerman had innocent intentions.

As you were. :cool:
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In the US, people are considered innocent until proven guilty. We have no idea what happened in the vital moments precipitating Zimmerman’s shooting Martin. In fact, we don’t even know whether Zimmerman was aiming to kill or just shooting as well as he could given the circumstances.

I do not “think” Zimmerman had innocent intentions, but I believe that he may well have had. Then again, maybe he didn’t.

I don’t “think” Martin started anything, but I believe he might have. Then again, maybe he didn’t.

And that is the whole entire point:*we, none of us, knows. *None of us should be saying either one is “the bad guy,” because there simply isn’t sufficient information available to us.

But I really don’t think it’s right to put forth all sorts of crazy mind-reading opinions out there as if they were facts. This whole line of speculation about Zimmerman being out to get someone smply because he was carrying a gun is simply not borne out by any evidence, not even the evidence that obviously people who carry guns must be looking for trouble or anything similar to that.

We have a man who reported a teen for acting suspiciously in a neighborhood which had had several break-ins: we do *not *know what about Martin’s actions triggered Zimmerman’s suspicions.

We have a man who was told not to follow the teen as he ran: we do *not *know what Zimmerman did as a result of that suggestion.

And so on down the line.
 
St_Francis said:
In the US, people are considered innocent until proven guilty. We have no idea what happened in the vital moments precipitating Zimmerman’s shooting Martin. In fact, we don’t even know whether Zimmerman was aiming to kill or just shooting as well as he could given the circumstances.

I do not “think” Zimmerman had innocent intentions, but I believe that he may well have had. Then again, maybe he didn’t.

I don’t “think” Martin started anything, but I believe he might have. Then again, maybe he didn’t.

And that is the whole entire point:*we, none of us, knows. *None of us should be saying either one is “the bad guy,” because there simply isn’t sufficient information available to us.

But I really don’t think it’s right to put forth all sorts of crazy mind-reading opinions out there as if they were facts. This whole line of speculation about Zimmerman being out to get someone smply because he was carrying a gun is simply not borne out by any evidence, not even the evidence that obviously people who carry guns must be looking for trouble or anything similar to that.

We have a man who reported a teen for acting suspiciously in a neighborhood which had had several break-ins: we do *not *know what about Martin’s actions triggered Zimmerman’s suspicions.

We have a man who was told not to follow the teen as he ran: we do *not *know what Zimmerman did as a result of that suggestion.

And so on down the line.
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ONE MORE TIME:
the affidavit states that Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon.

You might want to READ the affidavit.
It could broaden your understanding of the State’s view.
 
catharina said:
Need I have used a smiley for sarcasm?

Let me see …
that?
:eek:
or that
:confused:
or this
:whacky:

think it through …
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The initial thought you had “,**VOILA! dark, rainy night, teen alone, No witnesses. Perfect,” **knowing that he called 911, was illogical. You can certainly claim sarcasm, if you like. Some people may buy that.
 
rlg94086 said:
The initial thought you had “,**VOILA! dark, rainy night, teen alone, No witnesses. Perfect,” **knowing that he called 911, was illogical. You can certainly claim sarcasm, if you like. Some people may buy that.
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Whatever.
 
catharina said:
Need I have used a smiley for sarcasm?

Let me see …
that?
:eek:
or that
:confused:
or this
:whacky:

think it through …
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Personally, I am reacting more to statements like this:
It’s public knowledge that he lost a job due to his violence.
Might have been a game of balances: lose the job or go to court.
There were so MANY witnesses to that violence, how could Z agree to court?
Now, in this case: VOILA! dark, rainy night, teen alone, No witnesses. Perfect.
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What was perfect? What was it perfect for?
 
jen_fla said:
so you don’t think that most people who carry guns legally are out looking for trouble? that is good to hear!

interesting to note…

from the article that calgar provided:

People who legally carry concealed firearms are actually less violent and less prone to criminal activity of all kinds than is the general population.20 A person who has a clean record, has passed an FBI background check, undergone firearms training, and spent several hundred dollars to get a permit and a firearm, is highly unlikely to choose to murder a neighbor. Doing so would result in his facing a police manhunt, a trial, prison, possibly capital punishment, and the destruction of his family, job, and reputation. Obviously it would make no sense for such a person to shoot a neighbor - except in self-defense. Equally obviously, the anti-gun person who believes that malicious shootings by ordinary gun owners are likely to occur is not in touch with reality.21

vcdl.org/new/raging.htm

anyway perhaps another thread regarding these issues would be in order.
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I am a proud member of the Virginia Citizen’s Defense League. Have been going on 3 years now. 👍
 
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