George Zimmerman makes initial court appearance in Trayvon Martin shooting, will plead not guilty

[TheRealJuliane]

I live about 7 miles south of Sanford, Fl. and visit there often (antique shops attract my wife and there is a dandy German restaurant there which is just the ticket for a Saturday afternoon lunch and beer).

Every pundit, priest, pastor and provacatuer from here to Dublin, Ireland has opined about this tragic incident, including the pastor of the local evangelical mega-church who published an opinion column with a muckety muck from the NAACP about the “injustice”.

Let me clearly state the facts.

1. Trayvon Martin (may he rest in peace) and George Zimmerman had an altercation on a rainy night in February in a public place.
2. Trayvon Martin (may he rest in peace) was shot and killed during that altercation.
3. The Sanford Police Department ( a Department familiar with murders, they happen in Sanford with regularity) investigates and turns over finding to Florida State’s Attorney for evaluation.
4. Death threats are made against Police Chief and his family to the extent the Chief temporarily steps down and sends his family out of state for safety sake.
5. Governor inserts a Special Prosecutor, rather than leave in the hands of the local State’s Attrorney.
6. Special Prosecutor eschews Grand Jury and files charge of Second Degree Murder against Zimmerman.
7. Zimmerman promptly turned himself in to authorities and was booked into jail.
8. A bali hearing will be held next week (Thursday). The judge has recused herself as her husband is in the same law firm as a CNN comentator named Mark NeJame, Esq.

Now, that is what we, the public, know. We’ve heard altered audio tape of a telephone call between Zimmerman and the 911 operator (yes, altered). That’s all we know. We don’t know whether it was murder or self defense or something in between. We’ve heard inflamatory comments from every pogue on planet earth who don’t know any more than we do, why is that? Is it helpful? fruitful? conciliatory?

Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty. If there was an injustice that will be proven at trial, not on this board and not on CNN and not in the Orlando Sentinel and not in some pastor’s mind in San Francisco or Washington, D.C. It is fruitless to talk about this. And it is less than helpful to incite people to a race war or to march in the street over a percieved injustice. There were 4 black on black shooting in Sanford last week. Anybody heard any pastors propound on those? How about Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton? How about our president?

It’s a mess.

And is this the 3rd or 4th thread on this topic? All dealing with conjecture. How many young people were killed in the last 3 mos. by drive-by shootings? Aren’t their parents heartbroken? Don’t they deserve to have answers? The difference is that THIS shooting got media attention. I wonder why.

 

[catharina]

QUOTE=JRRTFAN;9182402]I live about 7 miles south of Sanford, Fl. and visit there often (antique shops attract my wife and there is a dandy German restaurant there which is just the ticket for a Saturday afternoon lunch and beer).

Every pundit, priest, pastor and provacatuer from here to Dublin, Ireland has opined about this tragic incident, including the pastor of the local evangelical mega-church who published an opinion column with a muckety muck from the NAACP about the “injustice”.

Let me clearly state the facts.

1. Trayvon Martin (may he rest in peace) and George Zimmerman had an altercation on a rainy night in February in a public place.
2. Trayvon Martin (may he rest in peace) was shot and killed during that altercation.
3. The Sanford Police Department ( a Department familiar with murders, they happen in Sanford with regularity) investigates and turns over finding to Florida State’s Attorney for evaluation.
4. Death threats are made against Police Chief and his family to the extent the Chief temporarily steps down and sends his family out of state for safety sake.
5. Governor inserts a Special Prosecutor, rather than leave in the hands of the local State’s Attrorney.
6. Special Prosecutor eschews Grand Jury and files charge of Second Degree Murder against Zimmerman.
7. Zimmerman promptly turned himself in to authorities and was booked into jail.
8. A bali hearing will be held next week (Thursday). The judge has recused herself as her husband is in the same law firm as a CNN comentator named Mark NeJame, Esq.

Now, that is what we, the public, know. We’ve heard altered audio tape of a telephone call between Zimmerman and the 911 operator (yes, altered). That’s all we know. We don’t know whether it was murder or self defense or something in between. We’ve heard inflamatory comments from every pogue on planet earth who don’t know any more than we do, why is that? Is it helpful? fruitful? conciliatory?

Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty. If there was an injustice that will be proven at trial, not on this board and not on CNN and not in the Orlando Sentinel and not in some pastor’s mind in San Francisco or Washington, D.C. It is fruitless to talk about this. And it is less than helpful to incite people to a race war or to march in the street over a percieved injustice. There were 4 black on black shooting in Sanford last week. Anybody heard any pastors propound on those? How about Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton? How about our president?

It’s a mess.

And is this the 3rd or 4th thread on this topic? All dealing with conjecture. How many young people were killed in the last 3 mos. by drive-by shootings? Aren’t their parents heartbroken? Don’t they deserve to have answers? The difference is that THIS shooting got media attention. I wonder why.

Fourth Thread.

WHY?
Maybe because no charges were brought
against an IDENTIFIED shooter.
I still think that is rather shocking.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Fourth Thread.

WHY?
Maybe because no charges were brought
against an IDENTIFIED shooter.
I still think that is rather shocking.

It would be interesting to get statistics of how many self-defense type shootings were not brought to prosecution during this same time frame. DAs offices all over the country make decisions like this every day. Why this ONE case is so different…Well, I do think we know why. And why so many people continue to argue at each other in spite of the fact that NONE OF US knows anything about the case.

 

[jen_fla]

When that man has a gun, either child is outmatched.

so what? that has no bearing on who is the aggressor and who is the victim. i don’t know about you, but if a violent murderer is on the loose and approaches his/her next victim i sure hope that victim has a weapon to outmatch the aggressor. don’t you?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

so what? that has no bearing on who is the aggressor and who is the victim. i don’t know about you, but if a violent murderer is on the loose and approaches his/her next victim i sure hope that victim has a weapon to outmatch the aggressor. don’t you?

I get the disctinct impression that some on this forum would rather the impending victim just be able to hand the murderer a flower. And give him a big hug.

 

[seekerz]

And is this the 3rd or 4th thread on this topic? All dealing with conjecture. How many young people were killed in the last 3 mos. by drive-by shootings? Aren’t their parents heartbroken? Don’t they deserve to have answers? The difference is that THIS shooting got media attention. I wonder why.

If you’re still wondering, then perhaps you should read those threads. Trayvon wasn’t killed in a drive-by shooting.

Strange how we have different perspectives; for 2 years or so leading up to last summer, the whole country was caught up with the Caylee Anthony case and I heard few complaining that there were other kids going missing…Oh well, this kid, that kid, I guess some see a reason to complain now.

 

[jen_fla]

I am a proud member of the Virginia Citizen’s Defense League. Have been going on 3 years now.

i had to look them up. sounds good! thanks for not just giving me their acronym. i just spotted the gun owner unfriendly section. will have to read more to see how they determine that. i am not looking forward to banning my levis.

 

[seekerz]

I get the disctinct impression that some on this forum would rather the impending victim just be able to hand the murderer a flower. And give him a big hug.

And some see no reason the actual shooter can’t simply go home, put up his feet and watch TV. Guess it takes all kinds to make the world.

 

[bekalc]

I have to ask those who says its ridiculous to say Zimmerman was influenced by race. I have to ask what exactly was this boy doing that was sooo suspicious. He was walking down the street, and looking at houses in the middle of the night… How many of us do that.

I’d also point out Zimmerman’s attitude towards this kid which I feel illustrates my point. He’s sitting there with 911 calling this kid a punk etc… He may be suspicious of this kid, but once again he observed this kid commit NO Illegal acts. Its not like Trevyon was screaming at the top of his lungs waking the neighborhood up. All of this is why I find the whole Zimmerman is completely innocent on this to be wrong. At the very least Zimmerman’s attitude is troubling. He may have a reason to be worried because of bulgaries but to call someone names for daring to walk down the street and look at houses. And complaining the get away, when at that moment the person has done nothing to warrant being “caught.”

Also this Stand Your Ground laws that the prosecution has to prove beyond reasonable doubt it wasn’t self defense is ridiculous. Look you shoot and kill an unarmed person. We already know you killed that person. The burden should be on the person who SHOT and killed to prove at least with some accuracy that you were doing it in self defense. Justifiable homicides getting off has tripled in Florida since this law… Partly because people can just make sure their are no witnesses and then claim self defense. And since the prosecution has to prove “beyond reasonable doubt…” Yes, its beyond reasonable doubt when we don’t know IF you killed someone. But to prove beyond reasonable doubt your right to kill someone? Once its established you killed the person… Surely the burden goes on the person who killed to justify it. And it should be a STRONG burden if we as a society value life.

The facts are too that you can get vigiliantees doing what we had doing now and claiming STG. Once again this guy Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed teenager. Maybe in the end the story is correct but as far as I"m concerned even if because of Florida’s stupid law its different. The burden for me is on HIM to prove his story. Trevyon was unarmed.

And for those who say well all of us who carry guns are more responsible. I’m sure that there are many who are more responsible but idiots can get a hold of guns too and do some dangerous things with them.

 

[seekerz]

so what? that has no bearing on who is the aggressor and who is the victim. i don’t know about you, but if a violent murderer is on the loose and approaches his/her next victim i sure hope that victim has a weapon to outmatch the aggressor. don’t you?

I agree wholeheartedly…pity this victim had no weapon. It’s sad the things parents must ponder now: feed kid, clothe kid, educate kid, consider arming kid. But hey, it’s a big, bad world out there…

 

[catharina]

It would be interesting to get statistics of how many self-defense type shootings were not brought to prosecution during this same time frame. DAs offices all over the country make decisions like this every day. Why this ONE case is so different…Well, I do think we know why. And why so many people continue to argue at each other in spite of the fact that NONE OF US knows anything about the case.

Well, the Sanford PD has a recent history of winking at two-race encounters.
Like in the last one, a year ago, the victim is black. Makes sense to me
that some want to take another look at this case.

 

[bekalc]

And once again Trevyon wasn’t a perfect child. But he was an A and B student. He had no criminal history, Zimmerman does. His friends say this was a guy who tried to avoid fights. How his case with beating up police got thrown out. And lets point out the judge may be dismissed due to connections with Zimmerman’s family. Part of the issue here is there’s real questions about how the police department handled this case from the beginning. Some are wondering if enough time was even spent reviving Trevyon. These cops didn’t even bother to inform his parents right away. This is why there’s so much anger and its based on HOW this case was handled from the beginning.

 

[seekerz]

It would be interesting to get statistics of how many self-defense type shootings were not brought to prosecution during this same time frame. DAs offices all over the country make decisions like this every day. Why this ONE case is so different…Well, I do think we know why. And why so many people continue to argue at each other in spite of the fact that NONE OF US knows anything about the case.

This ONE case is different? So what? Why should it bother you? I’d hope if it was my son he’d get attention like no one ever had before. Maybe this kid just had the right parents for that job. Every life is the ONE like no other.

As for what we know about this case, it is not accurate to say that none of us know anything. If YOU don’t know anything about it, maybe you don’t have the time or something. There are those of us who do know something and we have 4 threads to prove it.

 

[rlg94086]

And lets point out the judge may be dismissed due to connections with Zimmerman’s family.

Yes, but not because of connections with Zimmerman’s family. Zimmerman originally contacted another attorney to see if he would represent him. That attorney now works for CNN and is a co-worker of the judge’s husband.

Zimmerman’s lawyer said he may ask for a new judge.

wesh.com/r/30888558/detail.html

 

[jen_fla]

I get the disctinct impression that some on this forum would rather the impending victim just be able to hand the murderer a flower. And give him a big hug.

i’m not saying anyone here is for banning guns in general, but i will say that anti-gun folks are irrational, but that is for another thread. and by anti-gun i don’t mean what they choose to do personally, but rather impose on the rest of society.

 

[JMJSHJ]

Who mentioned NBC?
Oh. Right. You did.

I have never quoted or referenced NBC in any of my posts - among the current 4000+ posts. Nice guessing game though. Keep jumping around if that suits you. Does it?

Are you on the payroll of NBC? Please remember this is a Catholic forum and your sarcasm isn’t appreciated.

 

[jen_fla]

I agree wholeheartedly…pity this victim had no weapon. It’s sad the things parents must ponder now: feed kid, clothe kid, educate kid, consider arming kid. But hey, it’s a big, bad world out there…

i’m with you on that, but again we still don’t know who put whose life in imminent danger first.

if it turns out that gz came at trayvon and put his life in danger, then yes, it would be a super tragedy that he wasn’t armed to defend himself, but by law he was underage. if that was the case then it is too bad he didn’t have another weapon to stand his ground with. if it were me, i would have broken the body of the glass ice tea bottle and cut him with the glass neck… or at least tried to.

if trayvon was legally able to carry a gun, and we had proof that say gz tackled him and started beating him and smashing head head against the concrete, would you wish that tm had a gun to shoot gz in order to defend himself? i know i would.

edit: i think you agreed in your above post, i was just confirming. and yes it is sad that we live in a world where we have to teach our kids about survival from the violent people in society.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

This ONE case is different? So what? Why should it bother you? I’d hope if it was my son he’d get attention like no one ever had before. Maybe this kid just had the right parents for that job. Every life is the ONE like no other.

As for what we know about this case, it is not accurate to say that none of us know anything. If YOU don’t know anything about it, maybe you don’t have the time or something. There are those of us who do know something and we have 4 threads to prove it.

No, you don’t. You have been talking for 4 threads but unless you were there, you know exactly NOTHING more than the media has released or distorted. You may think you do, but you don’t. No one does. There are only 2 people who really know what happened, and one of them is dead. No one thinks that is a good thing, we all know it was and is a tragedy. Everything else is just people going around and around.

 

[St_Francis]

…He had no criminal history, Zimmerman does. His friends say this was a guy who tried to avoid fights. How his case with beating up police got thrown out. …

Zimmerman, in his application to the police department, explained that he was in a bar, was assaulted by someone, and fought back, the person who assaulted him turned out the be an undercover police officer who had not identified himself as such.

While this is all according to Zimmerman, it was his statement on his application to the police department, who are in a very good position to sort out any difficulties in a story of this type, are they not?

 

[jen_fla]

Well, the Sanford PD has a recent history of winking at two-race encounters.
Like in the last one, a year ago, the victim is black. Makes sense to me
that some want to take another look at this case.

it also could be that they were just protecting a relative. they might have done the same thing if the homeless guy was white.

could be they were racist. could be it had to do with nepotism. could be they don’t think the homeless (of any race or gender) are worth their time.