German Church Tax: moral?

[RhodesianSon]

The state should help support the church. As should it’s members. Separation of state from church is part of the problem, not the solution. The state should be subordinate to the one holy catholic and apostolic church.

 

[OddBird]

I’m not in Germany, but in Switzerland which has a similar system.

As far as I know, the church tax is not made mandatory by the state per se, but it is an agreement in which the state puts its fund-collecting powers and structures to the service of the churches, which it recognizes as contributing to common good and public welfare.

In my own Swiss state, the churches have generously decided, half a century ago, to give up the mandatory character of the church tax (the state still helps collecting the taxes people willingly decide to pay). As a result, the better part of our energies is spent collecting funds and worrying about how we’re going to survive, since the number of people who contribute is in steady decline.

Getting off the church members’ list - and thus not being asked to pay the tax - is a very simple process, and of course, we’re still going to marry them, baptize their children, and bury them for free, so…

 

[Bernoulli]

In Germany people are not allowed to participate in the sacraments or any position within the Church, if they opt out of the Church tax. It is considered leaving the community of the Church.

 

[Polak]

That sounds extremely harsh. It is treating being able to partake in sacraments as a paid service. Doesn’t sound right.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

In Germany people are not allowed to participate in the sacraments or any position within the Church, if they opt out of the Church tax. It is considered leaving the community of the Church.

Though from my own experience, it is not people who actively parttake in sacraments or go to Mass who typically opt out. Those who opt out are people who haven’t been to Mass for years, or maybe even who never went to a church in their life and were never baptised but who the tax office considers Catholics because their parents were and nobody ever informed them otherwise.

Whenever some bad news about the Church gets around, for example the paedophilia scandals, this type of person may well quit the church in protest. And of course the German media, which is very left-leaning and anti-clerical, likes to stir up such stories and so, whether through design or as a side-effect, contributes to this.

Which means of course that the church as less and less income.

 

[OddBird]

In Germany people are not allowed to participate in the sacraments or any position within the Church, if they opt out of the Church tax. It is considered leaving the community of the Church.

We considered this as well, but the Synod (for now) decided against it - in order, as @Polak said, not to give people the impression that sacraments have to be paid for, and to metaphorically leave the door open and the lights on for their return.

 

[MNathaniel]

Maximian:

It encourages clergy to go along with secular trends in order not to upset the financial status quo.

I don’t see evidence of that in Germany.

Really?

 

[MNathaniel]

Responding to the OP: my views on this as a Canadian seem basically sympatico with yours.

From the moment I learned about the German Church tax I was horrified. Especially appalling to me are:

1. The scandal against the Church by placing a stumbling block in front of masses of people incentivized to formally apostasize;
2. The stumbling block to clergy by financially tying them to a secular state, and drowning them in an environment psychologically oriented towards complacency and people-pleasing.

 

[OddBird]

As someone who is a minister in a country with a similar system, the #1 is a very real concern. We sometimes receive letters saying basically “I can’t afford the tax but I want to remain a member, what do I do?”, and although our system was designed to make that possible, it’s heartbreaking and a real source of apostasy for people who don’t realise that another way is open to them.

As to the #2, however, it’s not a concern where I live. It’s understood that the state helps collecting the taxes in return for the social work accomplished by the Christian churches, and we don’t feel any more bound to it than we feel bound to it by the fact it keeps our roads in good shape.

What can be a real problem, though, is that industries pay the tax as moral persons too - my Swiss state’s Reformed church ended up asking a big name in the tobacco industry not to pay the tax any longer, because, although the financial loss was huge, we didn’t feel free to speak on some issues.

 

[silentwitness]

I think it can work well if the state has the same religion as the church and the moral sphere is the church’s responsibility…

When the state has its own defacto religion then there is the possibility of the church gradually sliding to the religion of the state while telling itself it is following consensus and avoiding rigid traditionalism.

 

[Maximian]

It is NOT immoral to contribute to our Church.

Nobody said it was. It is however immoral for the Church to accept money which people have been forced to pay by a non catholic, indeed non Christian, government

 

[Montrose]

That sounds extremely harsh. It is treating being able to partake in sacraments as a paid service. Doesn’t sound right.

Bernoulli is correct. All sacraments are refused to any Catholic who does not register with the government as a Catholic and pay the religious tax. The exception would be if there is a danger of death.
Also such a Catholic cannot be a Godparent.
Refusing to register as a Catholic is deemed to mean the person has left the Church.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

Perhaps the thing that makes me the most uncomfortable is the fact that one’s being able to receive the sacraments is based on whether they’ve paid their church tax.

I think this is what it says on paper.

I lived in Germany for many years and attended two different parishes there. In all that time I never heard of anybody actually being denied a sacrament, or it even being threatended. In fact I once attended the funeral of a gentleman who was quite definitely not Catholic, but whose widow wanted him to have a full Catholic funeral.

No priest with any compassion would deny a sacrament over the question of taxes. And if you do happen to chance on such a pedant, move on, there are plenty of other priests.

Just as the bishops creatively misinterpret what the pope tells them, the priests creatively misinterpret what the bishop tells them.

 

[Elf01]

The scandal against the Church by placing a stumbling block in front of masses of people incentivized to formally apostasize;

I think people calling themselves Catholuc while publically dissenting from Church teaching is worse, and wish they would formally apostize.

 

[kapp19]

Just as the bishops creatively misinterpret what the pope tells them, the priests creatively misinterpret what the bishop tells them.

Right on.

It’s easy to walk into a church anonymously in any country and receive Holy Communion, at least.

The lamentable thing is that the only way out of the tax is to write a formal letter of apostasy. Which, we should recall, is extremely evil.

 

[CTBcin]

I lived in Germany for many years and attended two different parishes there. In all that time I never heard of anybody actually being denied a sacrament, or it even being threatended.

That’s good to hear!

 

[Montrose]

The lamentable thing is that the only way out of the tax is to write a formal letter of apostasy. Which, we should recall, is extremely evil.

That is nonsense. To agree to pay the tax you register as a Catholic on a form provided by your employer who will deduct it monthly. If you don’t want to pay the tax you leave that box on the form blank.
There is no formal or any type of letter required.

 

[kapp19]

I am not happy to hear that one must only “not identify” as a Catholic. It’s not quite as bad, but it is still a terrible thing to do.

 

[Maximian]

Bottom line: the state has no business interfering in church affairs. It’s for the Church to decide who are its faithful and to levy contributions itself.

 

[Pattylt]

Am I understanding correctly that an atheist would then pay no tax to any religious institution? Or is some tax still collected and directed to a secular Institution?

With the further secularization of Europe occurring this doesn’t look good for any religious group going forward.