German court orders Bishop Williamson to pay fine for denying Holocaust

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Chellow said:
To be a Catholic, is to be in communion with each other to have the same belief, the same leaders. I know that’s not the real definition.

I guess the question is can you be a catholic and be disobedient to the Church, I say no, a cafeteria catholic is not a catholic to me.

Just because you’re not excommunicated doesn’t mean you’re a catholic, You can find none catholic’s that have had their excommunication lifted.

👍 I agree with most of what you are stated.

Only, Dr. Williamson can not be a valid Bishop, if he was not granted permission by the Holy See, and you still call him a Bishop, I don’t understand.
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Do you accept the fact that the lifting of excommunication was at the will of the Pope?
It was clearly expressed in this way:

**"His Holiness Benedict XVI - paternally sensitive to the spiritual unease manifested by the interested party due to the sanction of excommunication and trusting in the effort expressed by them in the aforementioned letter of not sparing any effort to deepen the necessary discussions with the Authority of the Holy See in the still open matters, so as to achieve shortly a full and satisfactory solution of the problem posed in the origin - decided to reconsider the canonical situation of Bishops Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson, and Alfonso de Galarreta, arisen with their episcopal consecration.

…

Rome, from the Congregation for Bishops, January 21, 2009.

Card. Giovanni Battista Re, Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops"**

Perhaps you might be willing to read the link??

catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=31776
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
It’s too bad Germany does not have our First Amendment rights.

"BERLIN (AP) — A German court convicted ultraconservative British Bishop Richard Williamson on Friday for denying the Holocaust in a television interview.

A court in the Bavarian city of Regensburg found Williamson guilty of incitement for saying in a 2008 interview with Swedish television that he did not believe Jews were killed in gas chambers during World War II.

The court ordered Williamson to pay a fine of €10,000 ($13,544).

The Roman Catholic bishop was barred by his order from attending Friday’s proceedings or making statements to the media."

chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-eu-germany-holocaust-denial,0,7670565.story
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I am glad that the law prevailed against this guilty man.
 
First ammendment rights have also done a great deal of harm too. Thanks to first ammendment rights we have filled the airways with blasphemy and vulgarity.

Thanks to first ammendment rights kids are allowed to tell their parents or their teachers to “bleep” themselves and the most they get is a detention.

Thanks for first ammendment rights the dignity of people is too ofen offended.

Moral law says that human beings have the right to free speech as long as it is used responsibly. The moment you use free speech in an irresponsible manner, you no longer that the right to free speech. In other words, only responsible speech is a right. No one has the right to say anything that is irresponsible, inappropriate or not true.

We have to remember that the law of love takes precedence over the law of man. What Bishop Williamson said was unloving and in conflict with his superior, the pope. Therefore, he did not have the right to make that comment.

As I said before, I think that $13,000 is a bit steep. But a penalty for saying something offensive is consistent with Catholic moral teaching.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
First ammendment rights have also done a great deal of harm too. Thanks to first ammendment rights we have filled the airways with blasphemy and vulgarity.

Thanks to first ammendment rights kids are allowed to tell their parents or their teachers to “bleep” themselves and the most they get is a detention.

Thanks for first ammendment rights the dignity of people is too ofen offended.

Moral law says that human beings have the right to free speech as long as it is used responsibly. The moment you use free speech in an irresponsible manner, you no longer that the right to free speech. In other words, only responsible speech is a right. No one has the right to say anything that is irresponsible, inappropriate or not true.

We have to remember that the law of love takes precedence over the law of man. What Bishop Williamson said was unloving and in conflict with his superior, the pope. Therefore, he did not have the right to make that comment.

As I said before, I think that $13,000 is a bit steep. But a penalty for saying something offensive is consistent with Catholic moral teaching.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Saying something offensive?

He said something that was against the law to say in that country. That does go beyond offensive.

And, PS- the Law does not care about what your blessed Pope has to say about it.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Saying something offensive?

He said something that was against the law to say in that country. That does go beyond offensive.

And, PS- the Law does not care about what your blessed Pope has to say about it.
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ahhhhhhh, excuse me - you angry about something?
 
StrawberryJam said:
I am happy that your pope has no say in the law. 😃
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Oh,.
Your statement sounded so sarcastic (and angry).
Remember you said:
“And, PS- the Law does not care about what your blessed Pope has to say about it.”

That’s you being happy then.
 
catharina said:
Oh,.
Your statement sounded so sarcastic (and angry).
Remember you said:
“And, PS- the Law does not care about what your blessed Pope has to say about it.”

That’s you being happy then.
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It is a neutral comment. The law should not, nor will it ever care what your blessed Pope says about a darn thing.

How is that anything but a factual and neutral statement?

I am sorry that I can’t give you a Mel Gibson like statement.
 
StrawberryJam said:
It is a neutral comment. The law should not, nor will it ever care what your blessed Pope says about a darn thing.

How is that anything but a factual and neutral statement?

I am sorry that I can’t give you a Mel Gibson like statement.
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I know nothing about Mel Gibson.
I tend to think that calling Pope Benedict XVI “your blessed Pope” is not neutral.
It still sounds very sarcastic to me - and the use of sarcasm is rarely a neutral action.
 
catharina said:
I know nothing about Mel Gibson.
I tend to think that calling Pope Benedict XVI “your blessed Pope” is not neutral.
It still sounds very sarcastic to me - and the use of sarcasm is rarely a neutral action.
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I believe that many prayer books I have here at hand, do use this type of format.

I do not know of using that term in any type of derogatory way. Can you explain?

He is blessed, as you are. Or is he not blessed? Please correct me if he is not. I thought he was. Are you challenging me on the point of his being blessed?

I am sure I can lead you to many citations that will clear this up rather quickly.
 
Can anyone honestly tell me or anyone else they never heard of Mel Gibson? Never?
 
StrawberryJam said:
Saying something offensive?

He said something that was against the law to say in that country. That does go beyond offensive.

And, PS- the Law does not care about what your blessed Pope has to say about it.
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The law may not care. But since you are on a Catholic forum and the bishop is a Catholic, we do care. If the law is wrong, then we do not care. We will say what has to be said.

Chinese law does not allow public expressions of faith. This law is immoral. Therefore, we don’t subscribe to it. It also approves of forced abortions. We don’t subscribe to that law either.

Law is only legitimate when it protects the rights of the innocent and the dignity of people. We would appreciate it that if you’re going to speak to Catholics in a Catholic forum, you use the proper language. Joseph Ratzinger’s title is the Pope or Pope Benedict, not “your blessed pope.” Blessed would be if he were dead and were beatified.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
StrawberryJam said:
Can anyone honestly tell me or anyone else they never heard of Mel Gibson? Never?
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In response to your statement:
“I am sorry that I can’t give you a Mel Gibson like statement.”

I know nothing about Mel Gibson (other than fact he’s alive and an actor).
Perhaps you could give me an example of a “Mel Gibson like statement.”
I have no clue what such a thing might be.
So in refernce to your example: I know nothing about Mel Gibson.
 
StrawberryJam said:
I believe that many prayer books I have here at hand, do use this type of format.

I do not know of using that term in any type of derogatory way. Can you explain?

He is blessed, as you are. Or is he not blessed? Please correct me if he is not. I thought he was. Are you challenging me on the point of his being blessed?

I am sure I can lead you to many citations that will clear this up rather quickly.
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Please see Post # 90
Another poster has graciously explained the unusual nature of your usage for you.
 
JReducation said:
The law may not care. But since you are on a Catholic forum and the bishop is a Catholic, we do care. If the law is wrong, then we do not care. We will say what has to be said.

Chinese law does not allow public expressions of faith. This law is immoral. Therefore, we don’t subscribe to it. It also approves of forced abortions. We don’t subscribe to that law either.

Law is only legitimate when it protects the rights of the innocent and the dignity of people. We would appreciate it that if you’re going to speak to Catholics in a Catholic forum, you use the proper language. Joseph Ratzinger’s title is the Pope or Pope Benedict, not “your blessed pope.” Blessed would be if he were dead and were beatified.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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I used Pope with a capital. I don’t have to on a catholic forum, in fact I was told by my priest that it is not to be in capital. I did that out of respect.
Your blessed Pope
Should have read, your blessed pope

Let’s take that to apologetics-

You are blessed, the other poster is blessed, All humans are blessed according to your faith.

Challenge me
 
catharina said:
Please see Post # 90
Another poster has graciously explained the unusual nature of your usage for you.
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I made an error, I admit. I capitalized Pope. I should have said, your blessed pope.

My error.

I am assuming all humans are blessed. Based on your theology. Please, correct me if I am wrong.
 
StrawberryJam said:
I used Pope with a capital. I don’t have to on a catholic forum, in fact I was told by my priest that it is not to be in capital. I did that out of respect.
Your blessed Pope
Should have read, your blessed pope

Let’s take that to apologetics-

You are blessed, the other poster is blessed, All humans are blessed according to your faith.

Challenge me
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Dreadfully sorry that you seem to be so offended.

It’s unlikely that Brother JR would choose to challenge anyone on this notion of opening this issue as a thread. Mountain out of a molehill for the Apologetics forum, IMO. I’ve only known Brither JR for two-and-a-half years but, IMO, he has little interest in “Challenges.”
 
catharina said:
In response to your statement:
“I am sorry that I can’t give you a Mel Gibson like statement.”

I know nothing about Mel Gibson (other than fact he’s alive and an actor).
Perhaps you could give me an example of a “Mel Gibson like statement.”
I have no clue what such a thing might be.
So in refernce to your example: I know nothing about Mel Gibson.
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He also, denied the Shoah. I can’t believe you don’t know that. Hit the search button, if the only access to information is here at caf. You boggle my mind in that you first say you don’t know him, and don’t know any statements about him. If you don’t trust caf as a source, just google it up! It made huge news in the real outside of caf world!
 
catharina said:
Dreadfully sorry that you seem to be so offended.

It’s unlikely that Brother JR would choose to challenge anyone on this notion of opening this issue as a thread. Mountain out of a molehill for the Apologetics forum, IMO. I’ve only known Brither JR for two-and-a-half years but, IMO, he has little interest in “Challenges.”
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You are his spokesperson? Wow. Catholic brothers sure have pull! Let’s see how it works out in the real world?
 
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