Get Ready to Call Your Representative and Senator on Monday 2/26

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rfournier103 said:
Government of the people, by the people, and for the people is a dusty memory. I’m very grieved to say this, but I really have no faith in my country or its leadership.
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I feel the same way.

I wouldn’t bother to call or write a letter or anything because I feel like it would just be read by a secretary or an intern and then thrown away.

I do not feel as though I have a voice in the Government.

Think about this - we’ve got 325,000,000 people in the US yet only 435 US Representatives.

How in the world are 435 people gonna represent 325 million?

For everybody in the US to actually have a voice, we’d have to have about 100,000 US Representatives.

As it is now, only the top 1% of the richest Americans can actually get their voice heard by their Congressmen.

The only hope for individual Americans is to join a group of people who all speak with one voice and lobby their elected officials.
 
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No, I see everything through a conservative lens. So as a catholic I view things from a conservative view point. As a dad the same as a husband the same as someone that is going to retire the same. If the catholic church teachings say how I am to behave, I see, as a conservative how I can do so.
 
Well I am so joyful that I said something your were hoping I would say. You have no idea how great that makes me feel.
 
Youre interpretation of the bible is according to your view. The bible is very clear on how to handle people that break the law. Hence the term illegals. The church has no authority when it comes to illegals. If it did it would have the authority to tell catholics how to vote.
 
So happy to see how passive-aggressive you are tonight.

Anyway, let’s see you explain these away:

Exodus 12:49 and Leviticus 24:22 – “There shall be one law for the native and for the alien who resides among you.”

Exodus 22:21 – Moses gives God’s law: “You shall not wrong or oppress a resident alien; for you were aliens in the land of Egypt.”

Leviticus 19:9-10 and 23:22 – Moses gives God’s law: “You shall not strip your vineyards bare…leave them for the poor and the alien.”

Leviticus 19:33-34 and 24:22 – When the alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 24:23 – Moses receives God’s law: “With me you are but aliens and tenants.”

Numbers 9:14 and 15:15-16 – “…you shall have one statute for both the resident alien and the native.”

Numbers 35 and Joshua 20 – The Lord instructs Moses to give cities of refuge to the Levites so that when the Israelites must flee into Canaan they may have cities of refuge given to them.

Deuteronomy 1:16 – “Give the members of your community a fair hearing, and judge rightly between one person and another, whether citizen or resident alien.”

Deuteronomy 6:10-13 – The people of Israel are made aware that the land had come to them as a gift from God and they were to remember that they were once aliens.

Deuteronomy 10:18-19 – “For the Lord your God…loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing. You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.”

Deuteronomy 14:28-29 and 26:12-13 – Tithing was begun, in part, for resident aliens.

Deuteronomy 24:14 – “You shall not withhold the wages of poor and needy laborers, whether other Israelites or aliens who reside in your land…”

Deuteronomy 24:17-18 – “You shall not deprive a resident alien…of justice.”

Deuteronomy 24:19-22 – Leave sheaf, olives, grapes for the alien.

Deuteronomy 26:5 – A wandering Aramean was my ancestor…

Deuteronomy 27:19 – “Cursed be anyone who deprives the alien…of justice.”

Oh and there’s plenty more where that came from in Sacred Scripture alone.

Then we can dive into everything written in Sacred Tradition about how we should treat immigrants.

You aren’t going to be able to wiggle outta this - the Church does not bend to your political fancies.
 
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I have yet to see any of those tell me that those who break the law are the same as those who follow it. again hence the word illegals. 20 years ago the progressives, such as bill clinton, would have agreed with me. No passive agressive just facts. What youre doing is what other progressives like to do, “Unless you agree 100% with me, youre a bad catholic” But that shaming doesnt work with me. I have done my research and feel very comftorable with my conservative views. You see, a democracy works to create a false equality, a republic creates individual liberty. A democracy will alway end in 100% centralized power of government. Always. That is why those in power call the US a democracy. their want of power to rule over men.
 
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Just for the heck of it, let’s run this up the flagpole. Suppose some future government made it illegal to pray in front of an abortion mill or to protest within sight of it. Would you stop praying and protesting because it was illegal? Or would you say that there is a higher law which you must obey?
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
Okay, JetteZ, tell us exactly how many people you would let in to immigrate every year into the US. How are you going to differentiate - - you can’t let in all the people that would like to come here!
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It is unreasonable to demand an answer to this weirdly specific question as the price to hold a view that a DACA person should be allowed to stay here.
 
AlNg said:
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Spyridon:
Please don’t refer to them as “illegal” it is very dehumanizing.
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What is dehumanizing is the protests of these illegal immigrants from Mexico with their spitting, their burning the American flag, their giving American citizens the finger, their cursing America and Americans. I doubt that I could post a picture of their demonstration here on CAF without being banned for posting vulgarity. But the pictures are out there on the internet.
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Social media very often misrepresents the prominence of a view, attitude, response, or other action. Just because you “saw something on the internet” does not mean that it is significant. I could probably find a video of some American cursing the Pope. It would be a mistake to assume that a significant number of Americans curse the Pope.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Social media very often misrepresents the prominence of a view, attitude, response, or other action. Just because you “saw something on the internet” does not mean that it is significant. I could probably find a video of some American cursing the Pope. It would be a mistake to assume that a significant number of Americans curse the Pope.
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It looked to me like it was a huge demonstration in San Jose. June 2016. The Mexican flags were waving and the American flags were burnt and spit upon with curses and expletives. Furious fights arose between the Mexican flag wavers and the Americans which ended in the Americans being soaked in blood as they were punched, beaten and cursed by those waving Mexican flags. If they love Mexico so much, and they love the Mexican flag, but hate the American flag and what it stands for then why are they demanding American citizenship?
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
All I think is that people should follow immigration law. Why is that so hard to understand?
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Because laws should exist for reason; you have not provided any reasons for these rules to exist.

Abortion, euthanasia, death penalty, ACA heathcare mandate, Jim Crow, slavery… the list goes on… all legal issues that have or are current law. So, we should keep/have kept them all because, “the law is the law so we should just follow it.”

No, thank you, my moral direction comes from somewhere other than current Federal code.

And that’s what is so hard to understand.
 
Certain things in Catholic teaching are non-negotiables. Abortion, euthanasia are 2 timely examples. Immigration is more nuanced. It has a lot of different variables and things to consider. It’s a prudential judgment, not a non-negotiable.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
It is never immoral to show mercy.
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Now therefore go, and smite Amalec, and utterly destroy all that he hath: spare him not, nor covet any thing that is his: but slay both man and woman, child and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
1 Samuel 15:3

(Nothing to do with illegal immigration, just pointing out that sometimes ‘mercy’ is not commanded and therefore is not just)
 
JetteZ said:
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Arkansan:
As others have explained, deportation isn’t a punishment. It’s an administrative action taken against a person who has no right to be here.
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Using creative writing to justify behavior doesn’t make the actions any less damaging.

Just because someone doesn’t have legal standing doesn’t mean we should treat them with less compassion or that we cannot extend rights to those people.

What reason do you have to justify not extending a path to citizenship?

All that I have read here is “the law is the law!” That’s not good enough. Laws are not justifiable simply because they exist.
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It’s not semantics. People speaking of “punishment” are trying to make the issue about the morality of the DACA recipients, rather than their legal rights.

Why would we need positive justification for not making someone a citizen? They have no right to be here, much less to citizenship, under our incredibly generous laws. That’s justification enough.
 
AlNg said:
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LeafByNiggle:
Social media very often misrepresents the prominence of a view, attitude, response, or other action. Just because you “saw something on the internet” does not mean that it is significant. I could probably find a video of some American cursing the Pope. It would be a mistake to assume that a significant number of Americans curse the Pope.
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It looked to me like it was a huge demonstration in San Jose. June 2016. The Mexican flags were waving and the American flags were burnt and spit upon with curses and expletives. Furious fights arose between the Mexican flag wavers and the Americans which ended in the Americans being soaked in blood as they were punched, beaten and cursed by those waving Mexican flags. If they love Mexico so much, and they love the Mexican flag, but hate the American flag and what it stands for then why are they demanding American citizenship?
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You are doing exactly what I said could happen. You assume the prominence of this type of event is fairly represented by this one video. This is not a “random sampling” and it would be foolish to treat it as such.
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
Certain things in Catholic teaching are non-negotiables. Abortion, euthanasia are 2 timely examples. Immigration is more nuanced. It has a lot of different variables and things to consider. It’s a prudential judgment, not a non-negotiable.
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The notion of 5 non-negotiables is arbitrary. If only these 5 are non-negotiable, what about homosexual acts themselves. Last I looked they were not on the list. So does that mean homosexual acts are a negotiable teaching? Can you give an example of a Catholic teaching that is negotiable? And if so, what sort of negotiations might be allowed for that teaching?
 
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