- Status
M
markomalley
Guest
Father,
Interesting item regarding this came out yesterday at Rorate Cæli.Coincidence??
(NB: In recent months, I think the folks at Rorate have been taking themselves a bit too seriously, so I read it a lot less than I used to. But this was a good item)
I think the big point of all of this is that things need to be a bit more “maschile”. That is the Mass. That is the activities outside of Mass (so that the man can feel a full part of the community). Things, these days, seem a little too “femminile” – and “sensitive”
FWIW
Interesting item regarding this came out yesterday at Rorate Cæli.Coincidence??
(NB: In recent months, I think the folks at Rorate have been taking themselves a bit too seriously, so I read it a lot less than I used to. But this was a good item)
I think the big point of all of this is that things need to be a bit more “maschile”. That is the Mass. That is the activities outside of Mass (so that the man can feel a full part of the community). Things, these days, seem a little too “femminile” – and “sensitive”
FWIW
M
MJJean
Guest
No, but a man who was divorced and has remarried cannot receive communion unless he has gotten an annulment of his first marriage. And a man who has married a woman that was divorced and has not gotten an annulment cannot receive Communion until the situation is rectified, either.
This goes back to reaching out and making men feel welcome. Men need to know that their sins can be forgiven and that there are people within the Church that will help them do whatever they need to do in order to be in full communion again. A lot of men have this idea that they made a big enough mistake that the cannot go back to the Church ever again. They need to know this is not true and that they can make things right.
C
CradleJourney
Guest
Play basketball. Seriously. If your parish has a gym, make one or two nights a week open for guys to come play basketball. Our parish makes it for 18 and older (safety reasons - not sure if that’s for the teens who might get sent flying by the bigger guys, or for the older ‘geezers’ who might have a heart-attack if they tried to run with the teens - but I digress).
How does it work? Guys A, B, and C attend parish X. They hear they can play on Thursday nights for free or low cost (I think ours collects $2 to help with the cost of lights/heat). They come - and they invite Joe, Bob, Harry, and Sam - who may or may not be Catholic and/or attend mass. Other guys in the parish hear about it, sounds like fun. They come. Wife reads about it in the bulletin - mentions it to hubby who’s been thinking about getting into shape - he ends up going. Each of these guys invites a another guy or two. Now you have too many guys to play continuously so they take turns. While resting/waiting on the side, they talk. More friendships/buddy-ships form. They are sitting on church property - sooner or later, mass / father’s homily / coffee&doughnuts / KofC /etc. is brought up. Guys who are attending mention this stuff. Guys not attending / feeling a smidge guilty about it / show up on Sunday. Before / after mass they see those same guys they play ball with. They get greeted by name - they KNOW someone there. More ball playing, more talk, more discussion of homilies, raising kids in the Church, etc. Positive peer pressure grows and blooms. Guy from the couch becomes regular attendee at mass. Guy who went once or twice makes sure to show up for mass because he wants to catch his buddy afterwards to give him the article he had mentioned when they last talked. Another guy attends and joins K of C after being invited by his new buddy from bball. When a guy doesn’t attend the next mass, he may hear “Hey, Missed seeing you Sunday”. Realizes attendance at mass does matter - at least to his friend
Makes an effort to attend more often, then it becomes a habit.I repeat - play basketball
FYI - Above is based on true life experiences witnessed and described by myself, my hubby and others in my parish. Doesn’t sound very religious based, I’m sure. But my view is you have to start with where guys are - and many are not turning over great spiritual and theological thoughts in their heads. They are trying to work, raise their kids, pay the bills, keep their spouse happy, and get the grass mowed. They aren’t bad guys. They just aren’t focused on religion - this stimulates their awareness and gets them motivated a bit - once they are attending, then the homilies, the graces, the sacraments can start kicking in
Anyway - my real life positive idea to get men back to Mass.
F
FrStevenJones
Guest
I like it! Masculine, sports-based appeal … appealing to the male psyche yet connected to the Church … thank you!Play basketball. Seriously. If your parish has a gym, make one or two nights a week open for guys to come play basketball. Our parish makes it for 18 and older (safety reasons - not sure if that’s for the teens who might get sent flying by the bigger guys, or for the older ‘geezers’ who might have a heart-attack if they tried to run with the teens - but I digress).
How does it work? Guys A, B, and C attend parish X. They hear they can play on Thursday nights for free or low cost (I think ours collects $2 to help with the cost of lights/heat). They come - and they invite Joe, Bob, Harry, and Sam - who may or may not be Catholic and/or attend mass. Other guys in the parish hear about it, sounds like fun. They come. Wife reads about it in the bulletin - mentions it to hubby who’s been thinking about getting into shape - he ends up going. Each of these guys invites a another guy or two. Now you have too many guys to play continuously so they take turns. While resting/waiting on the side, they talk. More friendships/buddy-ships form. They are sitting on church property - sooner or later, mass / father’s homily / coffee&doughnuts / KofC /etc. is brought up. Guys who are attending mention this stuff. Guys not attending / feeling a smidge guilty about it / show up on Sunday. Before / after mass they see those same guys they play ball with. They get greeted by name - they KNOW someone there. More ball playing, more talk, more discussion of homilies, raising kids in the Church, etc. Positive peer pressure grows and blooms. Guy from the couch becomes regular attendee at mass. Guy who went once or twice makes sure to show up for mass because he wants to catch his buddy afterwards to give him the article he had mentioned when they last talked. Another guy attends and joins K of C after being invited by his new buddy from bball. When a guy doesn’t attend the next mass, he may hear “Hey, Missed seeing you Sunday”. Realizes attendance at mass does matter - at least to his friend
I repeat - play basketball
FYI - Above is based on true life experiences witnessed and described by myself, my hubby and others in my parish. Doesn’t sound very religious based, I’m sure. But my view is you have to start with where guys are - and many are not turning over great spiritual and theological thoughts in their heads. They are trying to work, raise their kids, pay the bills, keep their spouse happy, and get the grass mowed. They aren’t bad guys. They just aren’t focused on religion - this stimulates their awareness and gets them motivated a bit - once they are attending, then the homilies, the graces, the sacraments can start kicking in
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
My brother was a lot like you describe. Ended up as an engineer, which was no surprise. But not all boys are the same, and if you didn’t do some aggressive things at all, I would be very surprised. I’ll admit I was more into making my own fireworks, damming streams to see how retention and release of water worked in the various ways you can do it. Even built and shot off my own cannon with gunpowder I made myself.
My brother was more into building, but it must be said that sometimes we both enjoyed building structures then seeing how we could duplicate war effects by dropping cherry bombs on them. I did admire his kerosene-fired volcanoes. Very artistically done. Very realistic. Both of us made ornate bows and spears and got very good at it. My sisters wanted no part of any of that, though they were participants when we built little shrines out in the woods and let us use their doll house figures to approximate the holy persons and made proper garments for them. They did “let” us build the ones high up in trees, though. They weren’t into climbing 40 feet up a scyamore to build a shrine with one hand while holding onto a branch with the other.
I never said boys are serial killers. But they’re not girls by a long way.
J
johnnykins
Guest
S
Sarabande
Guest
Good idea. Or start a hockey league. I know a lot of men (my husband included) who would love to be part of an affordable hockey (ice or roller) league just for fun. All of my husband’s ice hockey equipment is just hanging in the garage right now. Maybe have different local parishes play against each other, maybe have a special mass for them at one of the churches before going off to the rink, or the basketball hoops, etc.
Z
zab
Guest
Get them fired up with Parish Missions. Start motivating the young boys. In our parish, every boy from 4th grade on is invited, encouraged, and expected to be an altar server. We have Altar Server Boot Camp -two groups- Rookie Camp for the new altar servers, and Boot Camp as a refresher camp for those already serving. We also have a Fraternus chapter for boys and young men.
U
Usige
Guest
Father Jones,
I think there are really two things here. First is getting men to come to Mass. The second is getting them to want to stay.
Many of the things we’ve talked about here (and on other threads) might help keep men wanting to attend Mass, but as you are aware it’s getting them there in the first place that’s the challenge.
I like CradleJourney’s suggestion of an open basketball night once a week. It doesn’t even have to be basketball, but some activity that men would enjoy doing together. In addition I’d make sure that you are visible and active as much as possible (sorry, not sure how old or fit you are). Really it would be a way for the men to see that you are as much a part of the community as they are. I think that is important for the second part of my suggestion.
After the activity, have time available for confession. Just a simple announcement something like “Hey guys, give me 5 minutes to clean up and then I’ll be offering confession for 20 - 30 minutes if any of you would like to join me.” At first maybe no one will take you up on it, but hopefully in a couple weeks you might see 1 or 2 trickle in. If men see other men going to confession it can help give them that extra little push to set things right with God.
I suspect it will be a slow process, but I hope the Lord abundantly blesses your efforts to return men to the flock.
I think there are really two things here. First is getting men to come to Mass. The second is getting them to want to stay.
Many of the things we’ve talked about here (and on other threads) might help keep men wanting to attend Mass, but as you are aware it’s getting them there in the first place that’s the challenge.
I like CradleJourney’s suggestion of an open basketball night once a week. It doesn’t even have to be basketball, but some activity that men would enjoy doing together. In addition I’d make sure that you are visible and active as much as possible (sorry, not sure how old or fit you are). Really it would be a way for the men to see that you are as much a part of the community as they are. I think that is important for the second part of my suggestion.
After the activity, have time available for confession. Just a simple announcement something like “Hey guys, give me 5 minutes to clean up and then I’ll be offering confession for 20 - 30 minutes if any of you would like to join me.” At first maybe no one will take you up on it, but hopefully in a couple weeks you might see 1 or 2 trickle in. If men see other men going to confession it can help give them that extra little push to set things right with God.
I suspect it will be a slow process, but I hope the Lord abundantly blesses your efforts to return men to the flock.
S
Sarabande
Guest
Another thought I had was how homilies are delivered. My husband is a scientist by trade (and a musician, but that’s for another thread). I know for him, he doesn’t want “feel-good” homilies. He’d like something more concrete that would better “prove” to him the concrete existence of God. He believes in God on an intangible level and has chosen to believe in his faith, but I know that he sometimes struggles with it because he is constantly asking questions. I think he’d be nourished by and like more intellectual homilies going deeper into the reasons for what we believe and what the Church believes. I don’t know if this is true for most men, but I know for the men that I do come in contact with, I get the feeling that this is what they would prefer even if they don’t outright say it.
S
Samson01
Guest
When The Lord opened the heavens, He first went to the prisoners. He commissioned the Apostles to spread the Gospel, to enter the houses, to bless or to wipe the dirt from their sandals. The Lord ask Peter to come to Him on the water. But of little faith he sunk. What does that tell you?
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
I can agree with this, at least to an extent. We had a parish priest at one time who was a true intellectual. He could expound on theological issues in a way that was both enlightening and interesting. I will say, however, that those particular sermons left a lot of people cold because they had little or no backgrounding in theology whatever. A mix might be appropriate.
I’ll add this. I genuinely believe men are more imaginative than we’re given credit for. Men can paint vivid mental pictures and are rather inclined to do it. I suspect that might account for the fact that men tend to be able to see “whole pictures” of something readily while oftentimes women are (contrary to what many think) much more methodical. That might also at least partially explain why men can watch two or more television shows simultaneously at the vexation of their wives, who can’t stand the “skipping around”.
I was once at a retreat in which the priest took us through some of the meditations of St. Ignatius Loyola. They were very, very “mental image” creating. I don’t think a single man left unimpressed with the whole thing.
M
MJJean
Guest
My husband wouldn’t be interested in playing a sport, but he sure would be interested in some kind of group that regularly met to discuss and debate Church history, law, and belief.
G
Gidge
Guest
I understand that Mass is Mass, but, as a man, I find that the EF is more of a “masculine” liturgy.
My suggestion, ergo, would to have the family try the EF Mass (give it a chance, the first couple of times you’ll feel confused, this is to be expected).
J
Joe_5859
Guest
That is a great idea. Building that sense of comraderie is key. From the very beginning, evangelization happened person to person. That personal witness makes all the difference.Play basketball. Seriously. If your parish has a gym, make one or two nights a week open for guys to come play basketball. Our parish makes it for 18 and older (safety reasons - not sure if that’s for the teens who might get sent flying by the bigger guys, or for the older ‘geezers’ who might have a heart-attack if they tried to run with the teens - but I digress).
How does it work? Guys A, B, and C attend parish X. They hear they can play on Thursday nights for free or low cost (I think ours collects $2 to help with the cost of lights/heat). They come - and they invite Joe, Bob, Harry, and Sam - who may or may not be Catholic and/or attend mass. Other guys in the parish hear about it, sounds like fun. They come. Wife reads about it in the bulletin - mentions it to hubby who’s been thinking about getting into shape - he ends up going. Each of these guys invites a another guy or two. Now you have too many guys to play continuously so they take turns. While resting/waiting on the side, they talk. More friendships/buddy-ships form. They are sitting on church property - sooner or later, mass / father’s homily / coffee&doughnuts / KofC /etc. is brought up. Guys who are attending mention this stuff. Guys not attending / feeling a smidge guilty about it / show up on Sunday. Before / after mass they see those same guys they play ball with. They get greeted by name - they KNOW someone there. More ball playing, more talk, more discussion of homilies, raising kids in the Church, etc. Positive peer pressure grows and blooms. Guy from the couch becomes regular attendee at mass. Guy who went once or twice makes sure to show up for mass because he wants to catch his buddy afterwards to give him the article he had mentioned when they last talked. Another guy attends and joins K of C after being invited by his new buddy from bball. When a guy doesn’t attend the next mass, he may hear “Hey, Missed seeing you Sunday”. Realizes attendance at mass does matter - at least to his friend
I repeat - play basketball
FYI - Above is based on true life experiences witnessed and described by myself, my hubby and others in my parish. Doesn’t sound very religious based, I’m sure. But my view is you have to start with where guys are - and many are not turning over great spiritual and theological thoughts in their heads. They are trying to work, raise their kids, pay the bills, keep their spouse happy, and get the grass mowed. They aren’t bad guys. They just aren’t focused on religion - this stimulates their awareness and gets them motivated a bit - once they are attending, then the homilies, the graces, the sacraments can start kicking in
Building on that, I knew a parish where a group of guys (including one of the priests) would get together and play video games using the big screen projector in the parish hall. It’s the same type of thing, but appeals to a different group of guys.
M
MJJean
Guest
If our parish hosted video game nights along with some Church history, law and belief discussion/debate group as well as his regular choir rehearsals I can confidently say my husband would be at church at least 4 days a week. And he’d probably at least try to bring friends.
C
coachdennis
Guest
Just as one size does not fit all children or women, neither will one program fit all men.
Father, any good parish leader needs to know the men of that particular parish. What I mean is what is the daily life of the men in your parish REALLY like. Only then can you can to the steps necessary to outreach.
For example, I’ll take my parish. It is a upwardly middle class suburban parish where the men are either in professional jobs or retired. The professional jobs are not 9 to 5 and the average commute is 45 minutes to one hour. So let’s say a husband walks through the house at 6:00 PM, there is dinner with the family (if they’re not out on their own activities) and times to play/interact with children before bedtime – which is what we want good Catholic fathers to do. And probably work does not end when they want through the door. And I assuming the wife and husband want to talk – again, something to promote Catholic marriage.
Now for all of those things I listed there can be solutions like time management, etc., evaluating priorities – but those have to be specific. It’s very easy to say to a man stop working all those hours and give some to God. But the man sees mortgages, bills, education and providing for his family and money is tight and the economy is not that great.
In the case of this man, what can the Gospel say to him? Can you demonstrate to him how it can relieve his stress, his worries, his cares, his desire to be a better husband and father when he is doing what he believes the best he can?
Unless you can provide concrete and relevant answers, you will not get the man back to church Again, I know I will offend some people by saying this: Telling someone to “pray the rosary” is not enough. Tell them WHY it would benefit them. If you can’t…why should they follow your advice???
What are the men in your parish like? What are they there? We have to ask those basic questions if we what to make this more than an intellectual exercise.
Then there is the challenge of those who do not fit nicely into categories
Father, any good parish leader needs to know the men of that particular parish. What I mean is what is the daily life of the men in your parish REALLY like. Only then can you can to the steps necessary to outreach.
For example, I’ll take my parish. It is a upwardly middle class suburban parish where the men are either in professional jobs or retired. The professional jobs are not 9 to 5 and the average commute is 45 minutes to one hour. So let’s say a husband walks through the house at 6:00 PM, there is dinner with the family (if they’re not out on their own activities) and times to play/interact with children before bedtime – which is what we want good Catholic fathers to do. And probably work does not end when they want through the door. And I assuming the wife and husband want to talk – again, something to promote Catholic marriage.
Now for all of those things I listed there can be solutions like time management, etc., evaluating priorities – but those have to be specific. It’s very easy to say to a man stop working all those hours and give some to God. But the man sees mortgages, bills, education and providing for his family and money is tight and the economy is not that great.
In the case of this man, what can the Gospel say to him? Can you demonstrate to him how it can relieve his stress, his worries, his cares, his desire to be a better husband and father when he is doing what he believes the best he can?
Unless you can provide concrete and relevant answers, you will not get the man back to church Again, I know I will offend some people by saying this: Telling someone to “pray the rosary” is not enough. Tell them WHY it would benefit them. If you can’t…why should they follow your advice???
What are the men in your parish like? What are they there? We have to ask those basic questions if we what to make this more than an intellectual exercise.
Then there is the challenge of those who do not fit nicely into categories
U
Usige
Guest
Whether its video games, history and law discussions or BBQ its really about giving men a connection to the Church. Too many men feel that church artivities are primarily geared to the needs of women so giving men opportunites for things they enjoy can only help. You can’t get them through the door without them first stepping on the porch. Use things like this to get them to the porch and after a while they might poke their head through the door.
J
Joe_5859
Guest
Well put.Whether its video games, history and law discussions or BBQ its really about giving men a connection to the Church. Too many men feel that church artivities are primarily geared to the needs of women so giving men opportunites for things they enjoy can only help. You can’t get them through the door without them first stepping on the porch. Use things like this to get them to the porch and after a while they might poke their head through the door.
Okay, now my mental gears are really turning.
In my parents’ parish, Knights of Columbus is really big – I think something like 80% of the Knights are 4th degree. There are also a fair bit of older/retired/empty nesters. The pastor will utilize the men of the parish to do things around the parish — painting, fixing windows, etc. They’ll hold rib roasts and those sorts of things to raise money for this or that. So they’re being specifically asked to utilize their “manly” skills in service of the Church.This strikes me as another good way to get men involved. We men like to fix things and feel useful.
Giving men opportunities to do that is one more way to get them invested in parish life.- Status