Gillette ad furor

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So if there is “toxic feminity” it must really be the fault of the oppressive male patriarchy, then? Women are incapable of being “toxic” all on their own, it’s always on account of some evil man, eh?
 
prayerrider said:
So if there is “toxic feminity” it must really be the fault of the oppressive male patriarchy, then? Women are incapable of being “toxic” all on their own, it’s always on account of some evil man, eh?
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Where has that ever been implied on this thread?
 
I have to go do my laundry now.
That’s right, I’m a man. And I know how to do laundry! It all goes in one machine, on hot, and then gets dried to a crisp! 😂
 
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prayerrider said:
So if there is “toxic feminity” it must really be the fault of the oppressive male patriarchy, then? Women are incapable of being “toxic” all on their own, it’s always on account of some evil man, eh?
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I’d say toxic femininity has more to do with being over sexualized, again something birthed in the 70’s from the sexual revolution.

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Theo520 said:
LOL, I assume you knew Facebook doesn’t have a ‘dislike’ or ‘thumbs down’ button, yet you still present it as valid data.
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I presented what’s there since I thought it was interesting. There is no thumbs down, but there are are a couple of buttons for expressing negative sentiments.
prayerrider said:
And please don’t forget all the FB groups, special interest pages, etc.
Then, of course, there’s Twitter, etc.
Please do let us know what you find! 😉
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Incidentally a few months ago I evaluated some software components for sentient analysis from text (among other things). Collecting information on the feelings of people from posts isn’t as difficult as one might otherwise think. 😊
 
One type of toxic femininity (possibly seen more in religious circles) is encouraging submission no matter what. Women to obey their husbands in everything, to encourage other women to do the same. That is toxic and it’s a misunderstanding of what femininity means. It’s like the reverse of the kind of toxic masculinity the ad was trying to show - toxic within the gender.

There’s obviously also toxicity between genders, which is the one you’re focusing on.
 
prayerrider said:
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blackforest:
And yes, there’s such a thing as “toxic femininity.” I see it in women who believe it’s “feminine” and “womanly” to allow their husbands to treat them like dirt.
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Right in this here quote.
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You misunderstood that quote.

The quote referred to the perversion of wifely submission by insisting that women submit to their husband’s abuse. I see no words blaming men for that in this quote. It also does not say that women are incapable of being evil.
 
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Thanks for clarifying. Yes, that was the intended message. Hyperbolic gender roles take cooperation from an entire culture.
 
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Well, I have no issue with that assessment. Where I have an issue is with Gillette jumping on the bandwagon, and preaching. Not their job. I have a pastor and a confessor for that.
I’ve read a number of the YouTube comments and FB comments and what I’m seeing is men feeling under attack just for being men. Not sexist, rapist men, but good men, who already act honorably. And they resent being told how to be men by a razor blade company.
 
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ThinkingSapien said:
I presented what’s there since I thought it was interesting. There is no thumbs down, but there are are a couple of buttons for expressing negative sentiments.
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No, negative sentiments are diffused and unclear. Only a matching thumbs down would provide a clear reference to the upvotes.
 
prayerrider said:
I’ve read a number of the YouTube comments and FB comments and what I’m seeing is men feeling under attack just for being men. Not sexist, rapist men, but good men, who already act honorably
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Then I would argue they have missed the point of the ad, which does say there are men who do not subscribe to the way of thinking shown in the first section. Those men are not the focus of the ad.
 
blackforest said:
And yes, there’s such a thing as “toxic femininity.” I see it in women who believe it’s “feminine” and “womanly” to allow their husbands to treat them like dirt.
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Two observations. One, if a man is around it is always his fault. Two, women always get defined in terms of men. For all the liberation talk both realities make that kind of a joke.
 
Neil Young sang “A Man Needs A Maid” yet he’s the darling of the left. Go figure.
 
Indeed, and John Lennon sang that ‘Women are the n***** of the world’. He is likewise well loved as a leftist.
 
And little boys roughhousing? I stop that in the classroom without running over and acting hysterical. If it’s outside, I’ll let it go, to a point. Any grown man can tell when horseplay is getting too heated. And here’s the thing: boys need to roughhouse and horseplay. It’s part of who they are.
 
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prayerrider said:
And little boys roughhousing? I stop that in the classroom without running over and acting hysterical. If it’s outside, I’ll let it go, to a point. Any grown man can tell when horseplay is getting too heated. And here’s the thing: boys need to roughhouse and horseplay. It’s part of who they are.
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Yes, that is a legit example of “boys being boys” and they must be taught to have fun but not bully.
 
prayerrider said:
Where I have an issue is with Gillette jumping on the bandwagon, and preaching. Not their job. I have a pastor and a confessor for that.
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I hate to point out the obvious, but not everyone is Catholic.

Also, why do you care? Why start the thread? Why is this ad so threatening to you? Why not just buy Schick or the Kroger brand and move on with your life?
Sarcelle said:
The quote referred to the perversion of wifely submission by insisting that women submit to their husband’s abuse.
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I suppose I should clarify that abuse is part of it but not the whole picture. There are women who sit back while their husbands make profoundly stupid financial mistakes, for example, because they say they should “submit” to their husbands.
exnihilo said:
One, if a man is around it is always his fault.
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If a man is abusing, manipulating, or otherwise exploiting a woman, then yes, it’s his fault.

It isn’t helping, however, when we hear enabling comments about “wifely submission.”
exnihilo said:
Two, women always get defined in terms of men.
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What do you mean by this?
prayerrider said:
I stop that in the classroom without running over and acting hysterical.
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I didn’t see any hysteria. The man in the commercial physically intervened and explained that it was inappropriate. As a boy-mom, I can assure you that most of the time, anything less won’t stop it.

Hysterical. Nice word choice.
prayerrider said:
Any grown man can tell when horseplay is getting too heated. And here’s the thing: boys need to roughhouse and horseplay. It’s part of who they are.
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Boys will be boys, right? :roll_eyes:

Except that when they’re ganging up on one boy and chasing him down the street intending to pummel him ruthlessly, that’s not innocent rough-housing. Do you allow that kind of behavior in your classroom?

And if they reject the suggestions in the commercial, how should men treat women?
 
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