Gingrich Thread

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Here’s why Huntsman would win against Obama. As of now, he is seen as too moderate and so the conservative Republicans are not particularly attracted to him and so his poll numbers are low. However, after he is nominated as the Republican candidate, the conservative Republicans would have no place to go and in their zeal to defeat Obama would vote for Huntsman. But, and here’s why Huntsman would win against Obama, Huntsman, being a moderate man, would attract the overwhelming majority of Independent voters and besides would attract many Democrats who are disillusioned with Obama.
I absolutely agree with you, and I still can’t believe Huntsman is still polling in single digits. I just hope Presidential Candidate Mitt Romney finds a place for him in his cabinet. Maybe Secretary of State if not VP.
 
I think its hard to say that Gingrich is “unqualified”. He was Speaker of the House for years, was a congressman for years, is well versed in policy, and is an elder statesman for the GOP. You might not like his personal history, or his character, but if you say he’s unqualified, then just about everyone else would be unqualified.

Ishii
You got that right. If Gingrich isn’t qualified, then NONE of the candidates are qualified. He was a Speaker of the House… 3rd in the line of the Succession. He has been closer to National Politics and the Presidency than any of the other candidates running.

Hey Louis, go start a Huntsman thread if you want to talk about Hunstman. Your post had nothing to do with Gingrich, and that is the topic of this thread. Good luck finding a news story about a “Huntsman surge” though. LOL.

And, the only “flavor of the week” in the GOP Presidential Nomination were maybe Trump, Daniels, Christie, and Pawlenty… the last of those 4 the only 1 who actually ran.
If you look at these polls, you’ll see that Perry and Cain both were on top for like 5 weeks.
realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

The reason Hunstman is polling in the single digits is that he’s the same as Romney, except more boring and even more of a moderate. Or, maybe that’s because Romney is pretending to be a tad conservative right now.

Yeah, if Romney won I’m sure he’d get Huntsman into his cabinet… he’s a former Governor of Utah, and a fellow Mormon.
 
You got that right. If Gingrich isn’t qualified, then NONE of the candidates are qualified. He was a Speaker of the House… 3rd in the line of the Succession. He has been closer to National Politics and the Presidency than any of the other candidates running.
Closer to our trade partner China? (I think you’re referring to Huntsman, no?) Newt’s campaign was also being compared to the Titanic - sinking ship and all - as recently as June, when he and his wife went on a cruise - to Greece - immediately after campaign staffers resigned:
thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/gingrich-staffers-who-quit-in-june-return-to-campaign/

I would be very surprised if the two staffers who returned (as the above-cited NYT is reporting) stick around, or aren’t let go, when the GOP Nominee Flavor Of The Week Machine gets back to Santorum or Cain or Huntsman just in time for Romney’s inevitable cakewalk come January.
 
You got that right. If Gingrich isn’t qualified, then NONE of the candidates are qualified.
I think that Jon Huntsman and Ron Paul are qualified. Gingrich may be good with words, but there are several issues which some people might see as disqualifying him to be President.
 
I absolutely agree with you, and I still can’t believe Huntsman is still polling in single digits. I just hope Presidential Candidate Mitt Romney finds a place for him in his cabinet. Maybe Secretary of State if not VP.
Seriously? If Romney got the nomination and chose another moderate like Huntsman then I think many on the right would support a 3rd party - possibly prompt Ron Paul to run. Romney would have to choose someone who has genuine conservative credentials - Marco Rubio, for example, or Bobby Jindal. In general tickets try to have ideological balance - Reagan chose the moderate Bush, for example, and Dole chose the conservative Jack Kemp.
Here’s why Huntsman would win against Obama. As of now, he is seen as too moderate and so the conservative Republicans are not particularly attracted to him and so his poll numbers are low. However, after he is nominated as the Republican candidate, the conservative Republicans would have no place to go and in their zeal to defeat Obama would vote for Huntsman. But, and here’s why Huntsman would win against Obama, Huntsman, being a moderate man, would attract the overwhelming majority of Independent voters and besides would attract many Democrats who are disillusioned with Obama.
The problem with your scenario are the words " after he is nominated". Huntsman doesn’t seem well positioned to get the nomination as he has failed to catch on. I would support him if he was the nominee and I think he’d probably make a good president, but he simply has failed to get support. Your logic seems like it would apply more to Romney, as he is actually consistently polling high numbers.

Ishii
 
I think that Jon Huntsman and Ron Paul are qualified. Gingrich may be good with words, but there are several issues which some people might see as disqualifying him to be President.
Such as? Gingrich has more experience in government that Huntsman, and as an earlier poster said, he was 3rd in line in succession. I think you’re confusing “qualified” with “I want this guy to win.” Ron Paul is qualified? What makes him more qualified than Gingrich? Or is it that you just agree with him on issues? If you are referring to the “personal baggage” that Newt has I would agree with you that it may hinder a possible Gingrich general election campaign, but his baggage doesn’t make him unqualified.

Ishii
 
Hey Louis, go start a Huntsman thread if you want to talk about Hunstman. Your post had nothing to do with Gingrich, and that is the topic of this thread. Good luck finding a news story about a “Huntsman surge” though. LOL.
Oh puh-leeze. Its perfectly legitimate for other candidates to be discussed in conjunction with a “Gingrich surge” thread. There is a race between many candidates and its fair to compare Newt’s strengths and weaknesses with that of others. And fair to say that one might support someone other than Newt. (I say that as an admitted fan of Newt!).
Yeah, if Romney won I’m sure he’d get Huntsman into his cabinet… he’s a former Governor of Utah, and a fellow Mormon.
Unfair slam against Romney’s religion. c’mon - you can do better than that. You don’t make your case for Newt stronger by slamming Romney’s religion.

Ishii
 
Seriously? If Romney got the nomination and chose another moderate like Huntsman then I think many on the right would support a 3rd party - possibly prompt Ron Paul to run. Romney would have to choose someone who has genuine conservative credentials - Marco Rubio, for example, or Bobby Jindal. In general tickets try to have ideological balance - Reagan chose the moderate Bush, for example, and Dole chose the conservative Jack Kemp.

The problem with your scenario are the words " after he is nominated". Huntsman doesn’t seem well positioned to get the nomination as he has failed to catch on. I would support him if he was the nominee and I think he’d probably make a good president, but he simply has failed to get support. Your logic seems like it would apply more to Romney, as he is actually consistently polling high numbers.

Ishii
I don;t see Romney as a moderate on foreign policy. From the debates, he appears to take an interventionist stance, unlike Huntsman who seems to be more in favor of winding dowm American foreign intervention.
 
I don;t see Romney as a moderate on foreign policy. From the debates, he appears to take an interventionist stance,
Romney is a politician of politicians. He appears to be not a moderate, because he’s in the Republican Primary. He’s not in the General election yet. He is appearing to be conservative for right now. Notice how he’s all rhetoric on his answers. Next debate, watch and see if Romney gives a specific policy answer. He won’t, he’ll give a slogan, a platitude, something generally pro-American, conservative sounding… but at the same time nothing definitive enough that it can be put in an attack ad.

Well, it didn’t work in 2008 either. John McCain relentlessly attacked Mitt Romney for being a flip flopping Massachusetts moderate. And, he was right.

John McCain’s take on Romney:
youtube.com/watch?v=YaVnEYcrBqU

Guess what, that was the same strategy of Barack Obama. Make general statements, not specific policies. “I want transparency in Washington” not “I’ll audit the Fed, I’ll sign an executive order on election day which fires every White House Czar… both supported by Newt Gingrich OF COURSE”

Mitt Romney is so disingenuous. His whole position on China is smoke and mirrors anyways… it’s predicated on a hypothetical situation. “If China did this… well I would get in a trade war”… well, chances are that hypothetical he lays out will never happen… it’s a win for him though, because he gets to sound tough on China, without actually believing that.

If he believed it, he’d lay down a policy.

And, from what I gather, Mitt has a 59 point plan of his policies on his site… CMON… make it as unreadable and inaccessible as possible so ordinary folks don’t know what’s in it.

It’s like how all the democratic bills were hundreds of pages in length (for all the loopholes, earmarks, special deals). From what I gather, the Republican House under the leadership of John Boehner, has made an effort to have bills that are 20 pages or less on a lot of things.
 
I don;t see Romney as a moderate on foreign policy. From the debates, he appears to take an interventionist stance, unlike Huntsman who seems to be more in favor of winding dowm American foreign intervention.
When I referred to Huntsman and Romney as more “moderate” I was talking more about domestic policy rather than foreign policy. I don’t judge a candidate’s foreign policy positions the same as I judge his domestic/social policy positions. People often call George W’s foreign policy “far right” but nothing could be further from the truth as the far right tends to be more non-interventionist ( I am thinking of people like Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul here). Indeed Huntsman seems to be more non-interventionist - a term I prefer to the derogatory “isolationist” - than Romney.
Well, it didn’t work in 2008 either. John McCain relentlessly attacked Mitt Romney for being a flip flopping Massachusetts moderate. And, he was right.

Guess what, that was the same strategy of Barack Obama. Make general statements, not specific policies. “I want transparency in Washington” not “I’ll audit the Fed, I’ll sign an executive order on election day which fires every White House Czar… both supported by Newt Gingrich OF COURSE”

Mitt Romney is so disingenuous. His whole position on China is smoke and mirrors anyways… it’s predicated on a hypothetical situation. “If China did this… well I would get in a trade war”… well, chances are that hypothetical he lays out will never happen… it’s a win for him though, because he gets to sound tough on China, without actually believing that.

If he believed it, he’d lay down a policy.

And, from what I gather, Mitt has a 59 point plan of his policies on his site… CMON… make it as unreadable and inaccessible as possible so ordinary folks don’t know what’s in it.

It’s like how all the democratic bills were hundreds of pages in length (for all the loopholes, earmarks, special deals). From what I gather, the Republican House under the leadership of John Boehner, has made an effort to have bills that are 20 pages or less on a lot of things.
I take it you don’t like Romney. Show me a Republican that won statewide office in Massachusetts and I’ll show you someone who had to run and govern as a moderate - as opposed to someone who wins statewide office in, say, Texas. Simple rule of politics. Does that mean they have no conservative principles? No, it just means that they had to face political reality. Also, I think some of the candidates’ promises of what they’ll do “right after being sworn in” are gimmicks.

If Romney is more or less a moderate but follows through on nominating justices like Scalia or Alito, then he has my enthusiastic support.

Ishii
 
We live in too dangerous times to be a moderate.

The moderates are passively allowing our civilization to be destroyed.
 
We live in too dangerous times to be a moderate.

The moderates are passively allowing our civilization to be destroyed.
We live in too dangerous times to run the risk of giving Obama a 2nd term because we had to nominate a weak “true believer conservative” candidate.

Ishii
 
People often call George W’s foreign policy “far right” but nothing could be further from the truth as the far right tends to be more non-interventionist ( I am thinking of people like Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul here). Indeed Huntsman seems to be more non-interventionist - a term I prefer to the derogatory “isolationist” - than Romney.

I take it you don’t like Romney. Show me a Republican that won statewide office in Massachusetts and I’ll show you someone who had to run and govern as a moderate - as opposed to someone who wins statewide office in, say, Texas. Simple rule of politics. Does that mean they have no conservative principles? No, it just means that they had to face political reality. Also, I think some of the candidates’ promises of what they’ll do “right after being sworn in” are gimmicks.

If Romney is more or less a moderate but follows through on nominating justices like Scalia or Alito, then he has my enthusiastic support.

Ishii
  1. While Pat Buchanan sadly didn’t get close to winning. And, while Ron Paul will most likely not get close to winning. I do want to at least say that many of their positions align very closely to some of the positions of the Catholic Church. Especially Buchanan. But, I would say Paul as well.
  2. I’m not going to show you a Massachusetts Republican. Look at Newt Gingrich. The reason the “Republican Revolution” was so successful, they didn’t want to ram through the most conservative legislation. Though the Republicans controlled the House and Senate, they didn’t have enough votes to override a veto. So, Gingrich worked many bi-partisan compromises. He had to govern with democrats the same as Romney. The difference… his commitment to conservative principles was far greater than that of Romney.
I think most people understand that Gingrich is more conservative than Romney. They can make up their minds on this.
  1. Some candidates might be “Gimmicks”… but Newt is laying out all of his executive orders in a list. And, he is going to sign them the day he gets sworn in. I mean, Obama lived up to his promises right after being sworn in… he signed his first executive order to allow funding to abortion overseas, and his second to close Guantanamo (sadly the second one was the one that wasn’t effective).
foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/03/poll-americans-oppose-obamas-executive-orders/

Here is Gingrich’s promise to sign a TON of executive orders to restructure Government, without having to pass new legislation, right after being sworn in. Please roll the tape and tell me if it’s a gimmick.

youtube.com/watch?v=oudg85gEsis

Another promise: to recognize the capitol of Israel as Jerusalem. currently it is in Tel Aviv.
youtube.com/watch?v=5G2TRZNi4IE&NR=1

-Mitt Romney MAY appoint conservative justices who are for the repeal of Roe v. Wade. However, his record gives me little comfort. In 2002 Romney supported state funding of abortion. I want to be clear… he got what he wanted. He was responsible for legislation that gave state funding to abortion. *
huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/10/mitt-romney-supported-sta_n_1086345.html

On the other hand, Gingrich has always been against abortion (at one time, he was against it as much as many mainline Protestants are… he would allow it in the case of rape and incest). But, now that he’s Catholic he is completely against abortion. And, he’s never supported

P.S.
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ishii:
We live in too dangerous times to run the risk of giving Obama a 2nd term because we had to nominate a weak “true believer conservative” candidate.
Ah, so there it is… the two schools present themselves.

Well, my response is simple: they said the same thing about Ronald Reagan.

Look at those words: true conservative believer. That’s what the Church wants, not a moderate. And, by the power of prayer, it is fully possible to get one elected.*
 
I’m old enough (and have read enough history) to know that when delegates get to political conventions surprises can happen. To begin with, often delegates are committed for the first ballot only. If there is a deadlock - which is quite possible at the GOP convention next year - and balloting goes on long enough a ‘dark horse’ can emerge. If you have been watching the PBS series on candidates who lost, you are aware that Wendell Willkie was just such a candidate in 1940.
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My concern at the moment is that the GOP not nominate Gingrich. What a disgrace for our nation. Such an un qualified person to lead our beloved nation.I guess I've made that point quite clearly and boldly already. Sorry to feel the need to repeat it but I hope it leads some readers to search out the facts and not be hoodwinked by his clever talk.
Not qualified? What a leap. Just because you don’t happen to like Newt does not make him unqualified. And who in the world could be more unqualified than our current president? Give me a break.
 
Not qualified? What a leap. Just because you don’t happen to like Newt does not make him unqualified. And who in the world could be more unqualified than our current president? Give me a break.
It is rather absurd to claim that Newt Ginrgrich is not qualified. Few running for president on either side have been as qualified.

Obama on the other hand was not qualified to do what his rhetoric claimed. Somebody on the left side of his own party is by definition unqualified to lead to the kind of bipartisan effort to bridge the red state blue state divide.
 
It is rather absurd to claim that Newt Ginrgrich is not qualified. Few running for president on either side have been as qualified.

Obama on the other hand was not qualified to do what his rhetoric claimed. Somebody on the left side of his own party is by definition unqualified to lead to the kind of bipartisan effort to bridge the red state blue state divide.
Everyone has been qualified…Constitutionally speaking. Most have been incompetant…a few grossly so.
 
  1. While Pat Buchanan sadly didn’t get close to winning. And, while Ron Paul will most likely not get close to winning. I do want to at least say that many of their positions align very closely to some of the positions of the Catholic Church. Especially Buchanan. But, I would say Paul as well.
  2. I’m not going to show you a Massachusetts Republican. Look at Newt Gingrich. The reason the “Republican Revolution” was so successful, they didn’t want to ram through the most conservative legislation. Though the Republicans controlled the House and Senate, they didn’t have enough votes to override a veto. So, Gingrich worked many bi-partisan compromises. He had to govern with democrats the same as Romney. The difference… his commitment to conservative principles was far greater than that of Romney.
I think most people understand that Gingrich is more conservative than Romney. They can make up their minds on this.
  1. Some candidates might be “Gimmicks”… but Newt is laying out all of his executive orders in a list. And, he is going to sign them the day he gets sworn in. I mean, Obama lived up to his promises right after being sworn in… he signed his first executive order to allow funding to abortion overseas, and his second to close Guantanamo (sadly the second one was the one that wasn’t effective).
foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/03/poll-americans-oppose-obamas-executive-orders/

Here is Gingrich’s promise to sign a TON of executive orders to restructure Government, without having to pass new legislation, right after being sworn in. Please roll the tape and tell me if it’s a gimmick.

youtube.com/watch?v=oudg85gEsis

Another promise: to recognize the capitol of Israel as Jerusalem. currently it is in Tel Aviv.
youtube.com/watch?v=5G2TRZNi4IE&NR=1

-Mitt Romney MAY appoint conservative justices who are for the repeal of Roe v. Wade. However, his record gives me little comfort. In 2002 Romney supported state funding of abortion. I want to be clear… he got what he wanted. He was responsible for legislation that gave state funding to abortion. *
huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/10/mitt-romney-supported-sta_n_1086345.html*

On the other hand, Gingrich has always been against abortion (at one time, he was against it as much as many mainline Protestants are… he would allow it in the case of rape and incest). But, now that he’s Catholic he is completely against abortion. And, he’s never supported

P.S.

Ah, so there it is… the two schools present themselves.

Well, my response is simple: they said the same thing about Ronald Reagan.

Look at those words: true conservative believer. That’s what the Church wants, not a moderate. And, by the power of prayer, it is fully possible to get one elected.

These are great references; definitely for the keeper file.

Thank you.
 
** If Newt is ‘qualified’ because he was Speaker of the House, I guess that makes Pelosi qualified for that office as well. Logical. Right?**
You can hold high office - even be president - and be unqualified for that position.
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My point would be that Newt is unusually unqualified. I've mentioned why, but a quick recap of some of the reasons.
** 1. He was basically cast aside as House speaker** and had to pay a fine of $300,000 for some ethical failure - frankly, I forget the precise details, but while in the House. Something to do with something he wrote or published?

** 2. He has a messy personal life that I personally find immoral -and most Americans will feel likewise**. He had two divorces, various affairs, married a third wife 20 years his junior, has a $500,000 credit line at Tiffany’s etc. The fact that he was involved in so much scandal but then became Catholic seems to erase all that for some naive folks, but not for me. Frankly, I see his conversion as part of his sly plan to ‘redraw’ himself and pretend to be a new and more mature Newt - his only and last hope of getting to the White House. He also knows that lots and lots of devout Catholics are Democrats. Yes, he can be clever.
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 3. He impresses people with his cute one-liners as well as pseudo-intellectual lectures. Forgive me, but **scholars who know far more view him as a fake historian** who has a gift for making his analyses sound very smart. Actually, I see him as a compulsive prevaricator. I will use that relatively polite word.

** 4. His work as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac, among others, shows that his big incentive was money.** Personal greed - a major failing in DC.  Freddie Mac alone paid him $1.8 million or more. This also proves that he is a Washington insider who has been part of the corrupt pattern that has so besmirched that political town. This is all a testimony to his deep-rooted self-centered hypocrisy. To leave the House and become a lobbyist was, in itself, unethical. It should be illegal. It is a major cause of Capitol Hill corruption.

 **5. He would be a shameful spokesman for the USA on the international stage**. Who wants a president with such a shabby and shady record speaking for our beloved America? To me, one could mistake him for a professor perhaps, but as leader of the world's greatest democracy? Hardly.
** 6. He flip-flopped on a variety of issues.** Didn’t he appear in ‘commercials’ with everyone from Hillary to Al Sharpton on such issues as global warning - etc.? Amazing. Call him a pragmatist? I would call him an opportunist.
Hm! There's more to say, but my mind has slowed down. But, believe me, his critics will pull many more skeletons out of his closet. And the country as well as the Church will suffer for it if he can hoodwink enough citizens to become chief executive. What a disaster!
 
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