Given the principles of evolution, natural selection, survival of the fittest, etc, do you think belief in the supernatural will die out or become a m

[Aloysium]

Interesting thought.

However, credible evolution, when one actually understands it, contains an opposition to Catholic teachings.

That would be the modern version.

I recall reading about the Steady State Theory of the universe in a textbook that predated the 1966 discovery of the cosmic microwave background radiation that ushered in the previously only theoretical, poorly-named idea of the Big Bang.

We seem to have nothing compares with that sort of evidence in the study of mankind because we are dealing with a higher level of being than the atomic and molecular aspects of reality. I’m not sure how we are going to find that point in time when human consciousness, with all its supernatural capacities, originated. One might assume that it might be genetic studies, but that is going nowhere but restating the assumptions that are built into the analysis.

 

[grannymh]

That would be the modern version.

Actually, it is the Darwinian version. And you could add the Mendel version.

I’m not sure how we are going to find that point in time when human consciousness, with all its supernatural capacities, originated. One might assume that it might be genetic studies, but that is going nowhere but restating the assumptions that are built into the analysis.

May I respectfully suggest that the first three real chapters of the real book of Genesis be studied in real depth.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

However, credible evolution, when one actually understands it, contains an opposition to Catholic teachings.

God is in control, so I am more confident that the Catholic church will be here in a thousand years. I am not so confident that the ToE will be around as we know it now.

 

[grannymh]

God is in control, so I am more confident that the Catholic church will be here in a thousand years. I am not so confident that the ToE will be around as we know it now.

May I respectfully suggest that you are avoiding the issue that the Science of Human Evolution is chipping away at Original Sin which is a key Catholic issue involving the full Divinity of Jesus Christ.

 

[inocente]

inocente;14888588:

I think maybe the standard for credibility has been set by creationists for believing a 600-year-old man got a pair of T-Rex to board an ark he built, to save them from a global flood 1,656 years after the big bang. A flood they say happened 4,365 years ago when people lived 900 years.

With God all things are possible.

The creationist who believes the above but won’t accept evolution until Catholic scientists explain and justify every tiny detail, is to put it mildly mightily inconsistent. I think when Jesus said with God all things are possible, he didn’t mean start a competition for who can come up with the least plausible ideas.

The only credible way evolution could happen, is if God made it happen.

By that logic God made tuberculosis, malaria, dementia, poisonous spiders, etc. happen. By that logic a loving God designed and made those biological weapons.

Most Christians might instead say God permitted them to happen.

 

[grannymh]

The creationist who believes the above but won’t accept evolution until Catholic scientists explain and justify every tiny detail, is to put it mildly mightily inconsistent. I think when Jesus said with God all things are possible, he didn’t mean start a competition for who can come up with the least plausible ideas.

Please, please keep your ears open to what I have been saying and saying and…

It is one basic rule, note one basic rule, in the basic evolution theory which intersects, note intersects, with a specific Catholic doctrine. The Birds and the Bees are not, repeat are not, Catholic doctrines. The Birds and the Bees can have, and do have, large populations as originating populations for a new species. Bananas, Buffalo, Birds, Bacteria, and Busy Beavers are species which have evolved from previous, note previous, kinds of multi-genetic, polygenetic random breeding populations which consist of more than two.

When finally, it is observed that the basic evolution model is based on a population more than two, one will be able to understand what exactly is the problem. When one can notice that there is a difference between a population of Homo descendants from the Homo/Pan Split and the Adam and Eve originating population, one generally, repeat generally, understands why there is a problem with specific, note specific, Catholic teachings concerning Original Sin and Adam.

I would repeat the Catholic protocol of the visible Catholic Church; however, people seem to have a problem understanding the word protocol.

If there are questions, ask now, because I will soon be disappearing along with the current Catholic Answers Forums.

 

[tonyrey]

Belief in natural processes presupposes the existence of supernatural power. They cannot explain themselves because they are mindless whereas minds can attribute their existence to a Supreme Mind.

 

[inocente]

Please, please keep your ears open to what I have been saying and saying and…

It is one basic rule, note one basic rule, in the basic evolution theory which intersects, note intersects, with a specific Catholic doctrine. The Birds and the Bees are not, repeat are not, Catholic doctrines. The Birds and the Bees can have, and do have, large populations as originating populations for a new species. Bananas, Buffalo, Birds, Bacteria, and Busy Beavers are species which have evolved from previous, note previous, kinds of multi-genetic, polygenetic random breeding populations which consist of more than two.

When finally, it is observed that the basic evolution model is based on a population more than two, one will be able to understand what exactly is the problem. When one can notice that there is a difference between a population of Homo descendants from the Homo/Pan Split and the Adam and Eve originating population, one generally, repeat generally, understands why there is a problem with specific, note specific, Catholic teachings concerning Original Sin and Adam.

I would repeat the Catholic protocol of the visible Catholic Church; however, people seem to have a problem understanding the word protocol.

If there are questions, ask now, because I will soon be disappearing along with the current Catholic Answers Forums.

Don’t know about Catholic protocol. In one of my past careers I would discuss communications protocols (TCP/IP etc,) but that’s all I know about protocols.

i was commenting on whether people who believe in a 600 year old man and dinosaurs on a boat 1,656 years after the big bang have any justification for criticizing what Catholic scientists accept.

But OK, I’ll ask a question. How is original sin passed down? There’s no evidence that it’s genetic, no evidence for a sequence of genes which codes for original sin. And if there were, then people without the genes could claim to be a superior race not subject to original sin. So I assume original sin must be passed down simply by being human, by the human condition.

And therefore, if it’s not passed genetically, it can have nothing to do with evolution which is about genes. I mean some people might be confused and think original sin is passed genetically, or think that evolution is not confined to the physical, but there are people who get confused when tying their shoelaces.

So leaving aside the befuddled, bothered and bewildered, what’s the problem? In words of one syllable please, it’s still really hot here, one good thunderstorm last week but now the oven’s back on.

btw I don’t believe CAF plans to lose all our posts when they switch over to the new system, they just can’t guarantee to preserve everything.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Indeed. It is a directed process of development which couldn’t exist without a Supreme Mind. Only atheists believe it is a product of mindless events.

Atheists and apparently inocente?

 

[grannymh]

Don’t know about Catholic protocol. In one of my past careers I would discuss communications protocols (TCP/IP etc,) but that’s all I know about protocols.

The communication protocol would include steps to follow. That is what the Catholic Protocol does, that is, it includes the steps to be followed when it comes to the real duly defined Catholic doctrines.

i was commenting on whether people who believe in a 600 year old man and dinosaurs on a boat 1,656 years after the big bang have any justification for criticizing what Catholic scientists accept.

Noah is not in the first three chapters of Genesis. You and me are free to skip him. However, there are some good images but these are not doctrines.

I hope to continue this response later.

 

[tonyrey]

Indeed. It is a directed

I can’t understand how anyone can believe in the Christian God without attributing any events on this planet to His love for us:

Behold the birds of the air, for they neither sow, nor do they reap, nor gather into barns: and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not you of much more value than they?And which of you by taking thought, can add to his stature by one cubit? And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. But I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. And if the grass of the field, which is today, and tomorrow is cast into the oven,** God doth so clothe**: how much more you, O ye of little faith?

Matthew 6:26-30

 

[inocente]

Atheists and apparently inocente?

I can’t understand how anyone can believe in the Christian God without attributing any events on this planet to His love for us:

Are you two begging me to report you both again for baiting?

 

[grannymh]

The communication protocol would include steps to follow. That is what the Catholic Protocol does, that is, it includes the steps to be followed when it comes to the real duly defined Catholic doctrines.

Noah is not in the first three chapters of Genesis. You and me are free to skip him. However, there are some good images but these are not doctrines.

I hope to continue this response later.

When it comes to declaring doctrines, the protocol starts with intense study of what the Early Fathers, etc. etc. wrote which would contain big names. However, not everything studied automatically becomes a doctrine. There has to be intense study of Sacred Scripture. There is a general principle that doctrines come from and remain in the spiritual world. Sometimes, it is hard to tell which is spiritual and which is material.

The bottom line is that it is the wisdom of the Holy Spirit which guides a major Ecumenical Catholic Church Council.

 

[Aloysium]

. . . it is the wisdom of the Holy Spirit which guides a major Ecumenical Catholic Church Council.

 

[edwest2]

Don’t know about Catholic protocol. In one of my past careers I would discuss communications protocols (TCP/IP etc,) but that’s all I know about protocols.

i was commenting on whether people who believe in a 600 year old man and dinosaurs on a boat 1,656 years after the big bang have any justification for criticizing what Catholic scientists accept.

But OK, I’ll ask a question. How is original sin passed down? There’s no evidence that it’s genetic, no evidence for a sequence of genes which codes for original sin. And if there were, then people without the genes could claim to be a superior race not subject to original sin. So I assume original sin must be passed down simply by being human, by the human condition.

And therefore, if it’s not passed genetically, it can have nothing to do with evolution which is about genes. I mean some people might be confused and think original sin is passed genetically, or think that evolution is not confined to the physical, but there are people who get confused when tying their shoelaces.

So leaving aside the befuddled, bothered and bewildered, what’s the problem? In words of one syllable please, it’s still really hot here, one good thunderstorm last week but now the oven’s back on.

btw I don’t believe CAF plans to lose all our posts when they switch over to the new system, they just can’t guarantee to preserve everything.

“37. When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.[12]”

Source: Humani Generis

Ed

 

[inocente]

When it comes to declaring doctrines, the protocol starts with intense study of what the Early Fathers, etc. etc. wrote which would contain big names. However, not everything studied automatically becomes a doctrine. There has to be intense study of Sacred Scripture. There is a general principle that doctrines come from and remain in the spiritual world. Sometimes, it is hard to tell which is spiritual and which is material.

The bottom line is that it is the wisdom of the Holy Spirit which guides a major Ecumenical Catholic Church Council.

The Spirit doesn’t get near enough mention on this part of CAF.

Maybe if there was more trust in the Spirit, there would be less fear in the world, and people could face truth without having to be defensive.

Anyhow, I still don’t understand the problem, but suggest the Spirit will deal with it. May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you Granny.

 

[inocente]

“37. When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.[12]”

Most of my neighbors have a photo of a pope in the kitchen. Most of the photos are JPII. Referring to that encyclical he said:

Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies—which was neither planned nor sought—constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory. - ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp961022.htm

158 years after ‘On the Origin’, six generations, I wonder how many more generations is will take for some to get used to it.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Bananas, Buffalo, Birds, Bacteria, and Busy Beavers are species which have evolved from previous, note previous, kinds of multi-genetic, polygenetic random breeding populations which consist of more than two.

But where is the evidence this happened please?

More to the point, how could this happen without God?

 

[Bradskii]

But where is the evidence this happened please?

More to the point, how could this happen without God?

I assume that you are reading this as opposed to someone else reading it to you. So you have _at your very fingertips_the means whereby you can access a cataclysmic amount of information about the subject. You don’t even have to leave your chair!

And I don’t think anyone on this thread has claimed it could happen without God. Even me…

.
.
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Member of the Rational Rat Pack

 

[inocente]

inocente:

Bananas, Buffalo, Birds, Bacteria, and Busy Beavers are species which have evolved from previous, note previous, kinds of multi-genetic, polygenetic random breeding populations which consist of more than two.

But where is the evidence this happened please?

More to the point, how could this happen without God?

I didn’t write what you quoted. Somehow you got my name on it but the post was by @grannymh, you’ll have to ask her.