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Glenn Beck says to run away from churches who preach social justice?
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Convert66
Guest
I am frustrated by false advertising and see much of what passes for “social justice” issues as just that in light of the Catechism and the Church’s teaching by other means. I think that on many points we have the same concerns.
I am not a Beck fan. I have my own concerns about him, but he has been unfairly demonized in the thread without a shred of evidence presented, let alone convincingly argued.
I have attempted repeatedly to demonstrate that calling something “holy” does not make it so, any more than the Dalai Lama is “holy” just because Lamaist Buddhists say he is or I am a Pittsbrugh Steeler just because someone says “hike”.
The frustration comes when, despite all efforts, so many stubbornly refuse to acknowledge not only the difference between Catholic teachings and Sojourners magazine or Jon Stewart the atheist’s teachings on “social justice” but that this is precisely what Glenn Beck meant and has repeatedly reiterated since the faux-controversy began.
Better to emote, than to think. It frustrates me to no end.
My problem, my cross, and my apologies for coming off as mean-spirited.
Dominus Vobiscum
I am not a Beck fan. I have my own concerns about him, but he has been unfairly demonized in the thread without a shred of evidence presented, let alone convincingly argued.
I have attempted repeatedly to demonstrate that calling something “holy” does not make it so, any more than the Dalai Lama is “holy” just because Lamaist Buddhists say he is or I am a Pittsbrugh Steeler just because someone says “hike”.
The frustration comes when, despite all efforts, so many stubbornly refuse to acknowledge not only the difference between Catholic teachings and Sojourners magazine or Jon Stewart the atheist’s teachings on “social justice” but that this is precisely what Glenn Beck meant and has repeatedly reiterated since the faux-controversy began.
Better to emote, than to think. It frustrates me to no end.
My problem, my cross, and my apologies for coming off as mean-spirited.
Dominus Vobiscum
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pnewton
Guest
Note the part I placed in italics: "social justice IS a code word in many spheres". That is not what was said. If Beck would have said that “social justice” is sometimes or in some spheres a code word, I do not think anyone would be in an uproar. Rather he said that if we here this phrase we should distance ourself from it and leave that Church or parish. He specifically mention that we should do so if we hear a *priest *say this phrase. There was no room in his statement for a priest who properly applies the principles taught by Jesus in encouraging such things as just treatment for the poor, just wages and welcoming the stranger.
FYI - I consider the issue of abortion and supporting abortion a separate issue. It is a strawman. One can consider Glen Beck to have shown himself an anticatholic and want nothing to do with him, or one can be total in favor of social justice through government action and be rabidly antiabortion.
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kbkam
Guest
Back to the forum topic:
I continue to find it bizarre that so many people would take others’ opinions of what GB said over what GB actually said and then when questioned for clarification, explained what he said all over again. If you hear someone say something and you are unsure of what they meant, don’t you ask them to clarify? Why then do you not accept what GB clarified? Do you do this in your real life, take gossip over what was really said?
BTW, isn’t gossip a sin?
This whole forum is not about the Church preaching charity and social responsibility; nobody disagrees that this is our responsibility as Catholics. This is about whether we, as Catholics, should jump on the bandwagon of leftist/progressive groups who have other agendas (resulting big government control) in the name of being charitable.
I am commenting about government control because that’s what the progressive agenda leads to (which is exactly what GB was talking about).
When deciding to oppose or support government policies, look for unintended consequences:
Historically- the Great Society welfare state-originally thought to be a charitable safety net, destroyed the black family after a couple of generations. One child policy in China-thought to control population, quickly resulted aborting baby girls and now there are too few females for the males to marry, resulting in men marrying close relatives with resultant birth defects.
Current/future
When the fed government is in charge of ALL school loans, will they deny them to Catholic schools that don’t agree with leftist policies? How strong will the schools be when faced with this? (GU, faced with a decision to hide Christ if they wanted an Obama speech, quickly put up the drapes.) We won’t have long to find out-the vote is today. When the Fed Gov’t is in charge of all health care, and the IRS is mandated to monthly audit each citizen’s purchase of health insurance, will you be penalized if you don’t pay for ‘comprehensive’ plans that include abortion? Again, we won’t have long to find out. Have you noticed that charitable deductions are slowly being phased out as legitimate tax deductions, but the gov’t will take care of approved charities’ needs…approved charities???
Don’t you see the danger? I agree we need prayer.
Read up on early 20th Century progressives and see just who today’s progressives admire-for example: Margaret Sanger, Queen of Eugenics, founder of groups which became Planned Parenthood, to rid our society of the undesirables-read minorities. (Eugenics-the model which Hitler copied.) What follower of Christ would want to be associated with people like that?
If I am not charitable to my neighbor, do no good works, yet pay my taxes, does that count?
Jesus didn’t tell us to outsource our charitable acts to the government, probably because He knew what would happen.
I continue to find it bizarre that so many people would take others’ opinions of what GB said over what GB actually said and then when questioned for clarification, explained what he said all over again. If you hear someone say something and you are unsure of what they meant, don’t you ask them to clarify? Why then do you not accept what GB clarified? Do you do this in your real life, take gossip over what was really said?
BTW, isn’t gossip a sin?
This whole forum is not about the Church preaching charity and social responsibility; nobody disagrees that this is our responsibility as Catholics. This is about whether we, as Catholics, should jump on the bandwagon of leftist/progressive groups who have other agendas (resulting big government control) in the name of being charitable.
I am commenting about government control because that’s what the progressive agenda leads to (which is exactly what GB was talking about).
When deciding to oppose or support government policies, look for unintended consequences:
Historically- the Great Society welfare state-originally thought to be a charitable safety net, destroyed the black family after a couple of generations. One child policy in China-thought to control population, quickly resulted aborting baby girls and now there are too few females for the males to marry, resulting in men marrying close relatives with resultant birth defects.
Current/future
When the fed government is in charge of ALL school loans, will they deny them to Catholic schools that don’t agree with leftist policies? How strong will the schools be when faced with this? (GU, faced with a decision to hide Christ if they wanted an Obama speech, quickly put up the drapes.) We won’t have long to find out-the vote is today. When the Fed Gov’t is in charge of all health care, and the IRS is mandated to monthly audit each citizen’s purchase of health insurance, will you be penalized if you don’t pay for ‘comprehensive’ plans that include abortion? Again, we won’t have long to find out. Have you noticed that charitable deductions are slowly being phased out as legitimate tax deductions, but the gov’t will take care of approved charities’ needs…approved charities???
Don’t you see the danger? I agree we need prayer.
Read up on early 20th Century progressives and see just who today’s progressives admire-for example: Margaret Sanger, Queen of Eugenics, founder of groups which became Planned Parenthood, to rid our society of the undesirables-read minorities. (Eugenics-the model which Hitler copied.) What follower of Christ would want to be associated with people like that?
If I am not charitable to my neighbor, do no good works, yet pay my taxes, does that count?
Jesus didn’t tell us to outsource our charitable acts to the government, probably because He knew what would happen.
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pnewton
Guest
Please note the forum name: Social Justice. So yes, this whole forum is about Church preaching charity and social responsibility. What this topic is not about is abortion, leftist bandwagons or commies under every rock.
There is something you said I think bears repeating. We can not outsource charity through taxes. Yes, we can legislation we think best reflect the idea of Christian charity, but it is never an act of charity to help someone with someone elses money. When the government acts on the behalf of those in need, it may be supported, or not. But it is not charity.
The topic is Glen Beck’s comment on Church’s who preach social justice. Since the Catholic Church preach’s social justice and the way Beck said it, it is reasonable to take it as an affront to Catholicism. Some may not agree with this and support the real meaning he had, whatever that was, but those who were offended had a legitimate reason.
One can oppose Glen Beck, abortion and eugenics all at once. As to who Jesus would associate with, we know the type of people he ate and drank with. It was one of the accusations against him by the Pharisees that he associated with the worst sinners. “It is the sick that need a physician,” and all that.
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Convert66
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Or one can be an unthinking noob. Your either/or is the straw man. You should really listen to what he said in it’s entirety. His producers question his statements almost immediately after he made them, and he makes it clear that he is linking his notion of “social justice…run” to a “progressive political agenda” which is well-known to include redistributive legislation (contrary to Catholic social teaching), “reproductive rights” (contrary to Catholic social teaching), centralization of political power (contrary to Catholic social teachings on subsidiarity), and it is also well-established that the “social gospel” is an indisputable aspect of progressive ideology, which is not the Gospel, or the Church’s view of social justice, but rather a different gospel altogether.
What is occuring here is nothing less that “proof-texting” in the same manner as many skeptics, atheists and other religious traditions quote a single verse as “proof” that Christians are unscientific idiots; in favor of genocide; misogyny; or think that God’s hand is 9 inches long and that he is about 6’ tall (thank you Kenneth Copeland).
After all, Jesus said “judge not, lest ye be judged” therefore we have “proof” that to disparage alternative lifestyles is anti-Christian and contrary to Jesus’ own words and cruelly judgemental, right? The Scriptures say that “by his stripes we are healed” and that what we give will be increased, 30, 60 and 100-fold, which obviously means that Benny Hinn and the TBN crowd are correct about the “health and wealth gospel” and that poor little-old ladies should send them 10% or more of their social security checks, right?
Well, Beck said “if your church preaches social gospel…run”, so that is ALL I need to consider or hear, right? Come on…this isn’t really THAT hard.
Sometimes it is enough to provoke despair at the state of thought (or lack thereof) in our dumb-ocracy.
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Convert66
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catharina
Guest
Perhaps you can hold that thought.
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Vasian
Guest
Or… He is in the business of pulling chains as it were, in order to bring attention to such things.
No good Christian is going to let the truly down trodden fend for themselves.
However… “For also when we were with you, this we declared to you: that, if any man will not work, neither let him eat…” - Apostle Paul
My point is this… those that have taken the true meaning of what the church may have called “social justice” and have ran with it far beyond what the church has intended are what Beck speaks of.
The local Catholic priest up here worships Obama, and the Democratic party first and foremost. He is very articulate in morphing the faith into a political/social recipe of “social justice”.
One of the main reasons I’ve been attending the Orthodox church of late in order to compare.
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RWMorris
Guest
I don’t think you’ve come off as mean-spirited at all; unless one considers reasonable thinking and a well researched explanation of Church doctrine mean-spirited. Apparently there are those who do.
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pnewton
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That was not very nice, or accurate. Have you you read the rules in regards to ad hominem statements?
That is an opinion I do not share. I have stated my reasons for offense. If you wish to listen to the man, that is your option. I will stick with those who I prefer.
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pnewton
Guest
I read that earlier and that may truly be the case. In this instance, he failed and only brings attention to those who support him with what looks to me to be unconditional loyalty. Since he alienated many others, then it would be a case of poor judgement. I have never been a fan of using insults and exaggeration for shock value.
It was said earlier by Convert 66
I admit this possibility did not occur to me. I am open to other explainations of why he said what he said. I am not open to more insults or childishness.
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catharina
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Precisely - and only one example of mean-spiritedness.
Thank you.
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catharina
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Again, well said.
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Via_Dolorosa
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What the heck does this mean?
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Via_Dolorosa
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It may be a liberal blogger but the article is from Time. Is Time magazine liberal. I didn’t know that.
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Via_Dolorosa
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Aren’t we all?Are you baptised, yes have you been confirmed into the faith,yes, do you want to know my confirmation name? do you go to confession regularly,Not that it’s any of your business, but yes do your regularly receive communion,most assuredly do you believe? OH boy These are the things that make you a Catholic Thank you. Now I know I’m a Catholic. None of the things you mentioned have anything to do with you being Catholic.We really do have an imply/infer readiing problem here I do all the things I mentioned You make your mother proud. But, I am not perfect. I am still a “work in progress.”
Oy Vay! Where do I begin? First, the bona fide I posted was for background information. By listing I implied I was Catholic. I let you make the inference. I might add that I think we have too many remedial readers here.
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TheresaLS
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Yes, Mr. Beck has done so much harm…Now that we have agreed on that let’s talk about the harm Mr. Obama, Ms. Pelosi, Mr Reid…does to the Church.
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Via_Dolorosa
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I’m guessing that has been discussed quite extensively here. But you can start a thread if you like.
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Vasian
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