Glenn Beck says to run away from churches who preach social justice?

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Via_Dolorosa said:
You dont know what you are talking about.
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I’ve already posted on this thread a direct quote from the US Bishops (with link) where they support coerced charity. Coerced charity is theft, pure and simple. And I believe stealing is a violation of one of the ten commandments.
 
rwmorris said:
i’ve already posted on this thread a direct quote from the us bishops (with link) where they support coerced charity. Coerced charity is theft, pure and simple. And i believe stealing is a violation of one of the ten commandments.
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amen !
 
4elise said:
jewells

I was unfamilar with the term 9 12 group, so of course I Googled it and see it on Beck’s web site.
I can understand how this would be very appealing…

9 Principles, 12 Values

The 9 Principles
  1. America Is Good.
America is a nation of good people founded on principles that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. This is good. All means ALL - of course at that time it only meant free men who owned land - happily today we see this in a larger sense (I hope) because this is what the Catholic Church teaches.
  1. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
Who can argue with this!
  1. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
This is a great - I think it would be a great thing to strive for.
  1. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
Well - if parents are not caring properly for their children, then no - the welfare of the child must take priority.
  1. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
And Justice must be blind, and all should also have equal protection under the law.
  1. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
I have a right to life, but you don’t? Well I think we all have these rights. It is the common good that is the underlying teaching of the Catholic Church in Social Justice - you might consider looking into where the difference lies in the way this is presented vs the way the Church might express this.
  1. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
That right to life is not charity. You may see it as charity but when your charity can not meet the needs of the poor society must also respond - this is an appropriate roll of society as spelled out by the Catholic Church.
  1. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
This one honestly almost makes me laugh - this same crowd called anyone who disagreed with the previous administration un-American - so it is only un-American to disagree with those who you would disagree with anyway? ----
  1. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.
We are the government. We vote for them, you may not have voted for the ones currently in office but the majority did - you can vote next time and if enough people agree with you then your your representative will be in office

The 12 Values
  • Honesty
  • Reverence
  • Hope
  • Thrift
  • Humility
  • Charity
  • Sincerity
  • Moderation
  • Hard Work
  • Courage
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Gratitude
Let me make a suggestion for these 9 12 groups ----

Consider instead a 10 - 7 group

Study the 10 commandments and the 7 Themes of Catholic Social Teaching
Chose a priest or master catechist to lead the discussions instead of an entertainer who hawks gold and fear.

Honestly this really concerns me - and I hope that someone in authority in the Church stands up and addresses this so that those who can be led astray by such nonsense can look to the Church for leadership not an entertainer.

I will pray for you jewells - please consider seeking out some good Catholic reading.
God Bless,
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You are very prejudice and judgemental towards individuals you have never met in your life. Google one of these groups in your area and visit one. You seem to be filled with alot of bitterness and seems like a fair amount of rage as well. You will be in my prayers too.
 
4elise said:
I have highlighted portions of your reply - just to make it easier to address.

First - I am again confused as to why this keeps turning into a discussion of the health care issue and the Bishops position regarding it -

The point is that BECK told PEOPLE to leave Churches that espouse Social Justice.
**
The Catholic Church not only espouses, but defines quite clearly exactly what Social Justice - in light of Catholic faith is. **

I have also numerous times said that I believe that it is possible that good people of faith may find that it is appropriate to draw the line in different places as to WHERE the government should be involved in the delivery of such things as health care.

Now to address specifically your point - the right to life can be / and is by many / understood more broadly than as you have described it. If it is life is a right and one person in society can afford care to sustain life and another can not - this inequity is something that I believe society must address. If one person who is disabled can not afford care and one can - should only the one who can afford it receive it?

But again - to the OP - we can not deny that the Catholic Church teaches Social Justice. It is in the Catechism, it is teaching of Popes and Bishops - if an individual who is Catholic is unaware of this teaching I would hope that they would avail themselves of the numerous sources to learn what our Church teaches, spend time with these teachers and leave the ‘entertainers’ to themselves.
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Of all the folks who disagree with us conservatives, you are the most thoughtful and responsive. I appreciate that.
It is a health care debate because we conservatives understand the context of Glenn Becks remark. It was not a diatribe against Cathollics. It was a diatribe against socialism, as we conservatives define it.
Your post was helpful, in that it narrows down a major point of disagreement. Your (and the current majority of Bishops in the US) define a right more broadly than do I. Until that issue is resolved, nothing else can be. The USCCB is NOT necessarily representative of the Catholic Church.
 
If I spend a unit of charity to increase social justice, I should expect social justice to increase by one unit. But look what has happened over the last 50 years: virtually everything * has increased many fold that we were told would decrease if only we would increase government spending on social programs. Social justice has been decreased with ever increasing government spending. Clearly, we have passed the point of diminishing marginal returns.

No one denies that “what is up should be down, and what is down should be up,” – to borrow a phrase – and enough money has been spend by government on its numerous social programs that every poor person in America could have been made rich [with less money spent] were they paid directly, so something is wrong with the original idea of government charity.

But, what’s the solution offered today by social “justice” advocates? Shovel more government spending at those programs; and, by the way, start some new ones to boot.

There are liberal churches that preach this kind of “charity”, and some of their followers eat it up because it relieves them [the followers] of their responsibility to be personally charitable and assuages their guilt feelings. I feel this is what Glenn Beck was railing against.*
 
RWMorris said:
I’ve already posted on this thread a direct quote from the US Bishops (with link) where they support coerced charity. Coerced charity is theft, pure and simple. And I believe stealing is a violation of one of the ten commandments.
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Good for you RWMorris. Lets not forget as well that a system of coerced charity is sold to the masses based in large part by covetting thy neighbor’s goods, and requires some elements of bearing false witness to get through.
 
It was not a diatribe against Cathollics. It was a diatribe against socialism, as we conservatives define it.
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IF it was not a diatribe against Catholics, he should not have said ‘priest’ and ‘parish’ and for that matter, ‘social justice’ since all three terms are Catholic terms.
Your (and the current majority of Bishops in the US) define a right more broadly than do I. Until that issue is resolved, nothing else can be. The USCCB is NOT necessarily representative of the Catholic Church.
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Do you have anything from Church documents in the past that disagrees with the USCCB’s position on social justice?

If you do not have these things, then I am afraid you are approaching the uncomfortable conclusion that you do not in fact agree with the Catholic Church, in her Entirety not just the USCCB, about social justice at all. 🤷 What then?
 
Albert_Nygren said:
You misunderstand many things. Glen Beck is arguing against a Socialist system of government and I agree with him. If you think that when charity cannot take care of the needs of the poor that society (the government) must, then you are a Socialist. You believe that it is society’s responsibility to take care of people’s needs. That is the definition of Socialism. Your post is a prime example of what Glen Beck is talking about. When you talk about “Social justice”, you are really advocating a Socialist society.

If we are all equal, who are you to say that the government has the right to take some of my money in taxes to support someone that the Constitution says the government is not responsible for? I am a Catholic and am proud of it but often when the church talks of “social justice” it is coming from a Socialist world view that I and many of us do not share.

Jesus said that if we have a brother who has no coat and we have 2 of them that we should give him 1 of ours so that we each have one. This is a command to us as individuals. Jesus did not say that if our brother has no coat that we should point a gun at someone else and demand that he give his coat to our brother so that we can keep our 2 cars and house in the suburbs. That is called armed robbery and that is what you advocate.
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I did not hear Glen Beck say we must fight socialism.
I heard leave Churches that teach Social Justice. Many Catholic seem ignorant about what the Catholic Church teaches about Social Justice.
I have tried, and tried, and tried to stress that I know and understand that good people of faith draw the line in different places as to where the line should be drawn to how much the government should be involved in helping those most in need -

This is not Socail’ism’ it is Social Justice that is taught by the Catholic Church.

It is the Social Justice Teaching of the Catholic Church that both individuals and Society MUST enter into this - were everyone person charitable no such need would exist - however our democracy is even in danger when we allow such disparity to exist - the Holy Father addressed this:

From: vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html
  1. The significant new elements in the picture of the development of peoples today in many cases demand new solutions. These need to be found together, respecting the laws proper to each element and in the light of an integral vision of man, reflecting the different aspects of the human person, contemplated through a lens purified by charity. Remarkable convergences and possible solutions will then come to light, without any fundamental component of human life being obscured.
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The dignity of the individual and the demands of justice require, particularly today, that economic choices do not cause disparities in wealth to increase in an excessive and morally unacceptable manner[83], and that we continue to prioritize the goal of access to steady employment for everyone. All things considered, this is also required by “economic logic”. Through the systemic increase of social inequality, both within a single country and between the populations of different countries (i.e. the massive increase in relative poverty), not only does social cohesion suffer, thereby placing democracy at risk, but so too does the economy, through the progressive erosion of “social capital”: the network of relationships of trust, dependability, and respect for rules, all of which are indispensable for any form of civil coexistence.
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jewells17 said:
You are very prejudice and judgemental towards individuals you have never met in your life. Google one of these groups in your area and visit one. You seem to be filled with alot of bitterness and seems like a fair amount of rage as well. You will be in my prayers too.
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jewells - I am not angry at all.

I am frustrated that many who list their religious affiliation as Catholic seem unaware of the teaching of our Church.

I do not think it is the fault of those who do not know just how much the Catholic Church teaches (and has taught throughout history) about Social Justice.

The Church isn’t on TV and the Radio as much as individuals like Beck - The Church professes unpopular ideas, it always has.

The teaching of the Church doesn’t feed fear, but reinforces the understanding that we are our brother’s keepers - and we have nothing to be afraid of, per the words of Jesus.

This isn’t a political issue. But people who are entertainers (whose motivation can be ratings) I believe are leading people astray, stirring hate, fear, intolerance, and I think it is sad.

I think it is great that we pray for each other - perhaps we will be able to better understand each other too.

Blessings
 
4elise said:
…
**
The Catholic Church … defines quite clearly exactly what Social Justice - in light of Catholic faith is. **
…
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I challenge this statement. Someone here posted quotes from the Catechism and Rerum Novarum, which are in very broad terms, and necessarily so, because they have to cover every conceivable situation over every culture on the planet for all time. How I feel they define social justice is the results of social arrangements which are consistent with human dignity. I don’t feel this is quite “exact”.
 
markbrumbaugh said:
Of all the folks who disagree with us conservatives, you are the most thoughtful and responsive. I appreciate that.
It is a health care debate because we conservatives understand the context of Glenn Becks remark. It was not a diatribe against Cathollics. It was a diatribe against socialism, as we conservatives define it.
Your post was helpful, in that it narrows down a major point of disagreement. Your (and the current majority of Bishops in the US) define a right more broadly than do I. Until that issue is resolved, nothing else can be. The USCCB is NOT necessarily representative of the Catholic Church.
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Thank you… I am trying - and I appreciate it when we can stay on topic too.

So I agree with the current majority of Bishops in the US.
I also agree with the Pope’s most recent Encyclical “Caritas in veritate” -
I think that it is a fault of our Church teachers that we haven’t done a better job explaining that it is HUMAN LIFE that must be at the center of all decisions - not only my human life, but yours, and the person who lost their home and has been without a job for 18 months, and child born to drug abusing mother, as well as the mother, for these people and all HUMAN LIFE - all our choices need to be reflective of how does this choice impact the most vulnerable in society? This IS what the Catholic Church teaches - if Beck is telling people to leave churches that teach Social Justice - he IS telling them to leave the Catholic Church.

I find Beck and others really more and more dangerous because many of their listeners are not educated as to what the Church teaches - many who are not Catholic don’t have the benefit of our Church teaching - and I find his inflamatory language offensive - divisive - ‘us’ vs ‘them’ — it is JUST US… we are ALL made in God’s image -

Christ died and rose for ALL OF US.
God Bless,
 
Ella said:
IF it was not a diatribe against Catholics, he should not have said ‘priest’ and ‘parish’ and for that matter, ‘social justice’ since all three terms are Catholic terms.

Do you have anything from Church documents in the past that disagrees with the USCCB’s position on social justice?

If you do not have these things, then I am afraid you are approaching the uncomfortable conclusion that you do not in fact agree with the Catholic Church, in her Entirety not just the USCCB, about social justice at all. 🤷 What then?
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This central point you’e making is the very heart of this thread. Glenn Beck chose to use words that pit him against the Catholic church, her parishes, her priests and the VIRTUE of Social Justice.

Nonetheless, we, in the Catholic Church are called to give preferential option to the poor. Glenn Beck clearly rejects that teaching as he has rejected Catholicism. It’s hard to understand that any Catholic is willing to ‘revise’ his spoken words and defend him.
 
sedonaman said:
I challenge this statement. Someone here posted quotes from the Catechism and Rerum Novarum, which are in very broad terms, and necessarily so, because they have to cover every conceivable situation over every culture on the planet for all time. How I feel they define social justice is the results of social arrangements which are consistent with human dignity. I don’t feel this is quite “exact”.
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Individuals of course can reject these teachings - individuals are free to accept what the Church offers us as ways to live in freedom and community.

As to how they are applied - I HAVE REPEATEDLY SAID THAT I KNOW GOOD PEOPLE OF FAITH MAY DRAW THE LINE IN A DIFFERENT PLACE AS TO HOW MUCH THE GOVERNMENT CAN / SHOULD BE INVOLVED ----

However we CAN NOT DENY that the Catholic Church teaches Social Justice
Glen Beck told people to leave Churches that professed Social Justice
Therefore (no straw man here) Glen Beck is telling people to leave the Catholic Church.
 
4elise said:
Individuals of course can reject these teachings - individuals are free to accept what the Church offers us as ways to live in freedom and community.

As to how they are applied - I HAVE REPEATEDLY SAID THAT I KNOW GOOD PEOPLE OF FAITH MAY DRAW THE LINE IN A DIFFERENT PLACE AS TO HOW MUCH THE GOVERNMENT CAN / SHOULD BE INVOLVED ----

However we CAN NOT DENY that the Catholic Church teaches Social Justice
Glen Beck told people to leave Churches that professed Social Justice
Therefore (no straw man here) Glen Beck is telling people to leave the Catholic Church.
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Would you please re-read what I posted?
 
catharina said:
This central point you’e making is the very heart of this thread. Glenn Beck chose to use words that pit him against the Catholic church, her parishes, her priests and the VIRTUE of Social Justice.

Nonetheless, we, in the Catholic Church are called to give preferential option to the poor. Glenn Beck clearly rejects that teaching as he has rejected Catholicism. It’s hard to understand that any Catholic is willing to ‘revise’ his spoken words and defend him.
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Exactly!
I believe it is the fault of the Church however not better educating her children on what is at the heart of our teaching.

The teaching of the Church is not as ‘shinny’ as someone rants as a self professed entertainer… we however MUST work to help Catholic understand WHAT the Church teaches and WHY… ALL HUMAN LIFE is at the center of ALL choices, individual and society choices…

I’m off to work… have a blessed day
 
4elise said:
**I did not hear Glen Beck say we must fight socialism.
I heard leave Churches that teach Social Justice. Many Catholic seem ignorant about what the Catholic Church teaches about Social Justice.
I have tried, and tried, and tried to stress that I know and understand that good people of faith draw the line in different places as to where the line should be drawn to how much the government should be involved in helping those most in need **-
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Elise you have excelled at keeping to the point of thread -
calling no names, making no insults.
Indeed as the title of the thread says,
Beck used words that insult Our Lord and our faith (His Church).
 
sedonaman said:
Would you please re-read what I posted?
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you can feel what you like… it is just a fact that the Catholic Church teaches Social Justice.

Glen Beck told people to leave churches that teach Social Justice THEREFORE he told people to leave the Catholic Church… regardless what back peddling, what others interprut, defend ---- he told people to leave the Catholic Church - perhaps he is recruting for the Morman Church. (sorry… couldn’t resist - since it has been pointed out here he used to be Catholic and is now Morman;))

God Bless,
 
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