My understanding is based on two facts:What is your understanding based on?
#2 - So you are limiting God to only being able to perform one action-creation? You are saying that God is perfect, but yet he is only capable of performing one action. You mention that “no further intervention is allowed” this indicates that God is taking orders from something else???Because of three strong facts (that we can discuss each if you wish):
- God is absolutely perfect and just
- God can only perform one action, so called creation and no further intervention is allowed
- A creation which is not absolutely perfect and just can not evolve and sustain itself so it would eventually collapse
“In Him we live, move and have our being”.My understanding is based on two facts:
- Our understanding of creation is subject to changes and this is the only door to understand God
- God does not change and does not intervene in creation since it is in state of timeless
Why not?Time cannot be created so it cannot exist in mind of God.
So God did not create anything? After all, the very act of creation is an act of change and an act that can be measured with time.My understanding is based on two facts:
- Our understanding of creation is subject to changes and this is the only door to understand God
- God does not change and does not intervene in creation since it is in state of timeless
Exactly, and that true because God is in state of timeless meaning that two consecutive actions are not possible since that define a sequence/time. It is logically impossible to be in state of timeless and perform two actions since one follows another one and there is not a before and after in state of timeless.#2 - So you are limiting God to only being able to perform one action-creation?
An intervention is an action so it cannot be done. Please read previous answer.You are saying that God is perfect, but yet he is only capable of performing one action. You mention that “no further intervention is allowed” this indicates that God is taking orders from something else???
Yes, since it is logically impossible so God cannot.Let me understand. Do you believe that God did the one act of creation and then has no more interaction with his creation?
To become as knowledgeable as God. There is no door to exit unless we are prepared to understand the whole truth as it is. We cannot possibly meet God until then.What would have been the purpose of creation. This indicates that God was just out creating with no purpose in mind at all-just for the fun of it. Even humans usually have a purpose for something that they create.
Please read post #90 to see that God is causally separated from us so God is not immanent. Transcendent is a meaning less word since we are here for exactly opposite reason, namely to understand God and ourselves.God is immanent as well as transcendent.
Because of three strong facts (that we can discuss each if you wish):
- God is absolutely perfect and just
- God can only perform one action, so called creation and no further intervention is allowed
- A creation which is not absolutely perfect and just can not evolve and sustain itself so it would eventually collapse
ok
- God is absolutely perfect and just
Why limit him to one action?
- God can only perform one action, so called creation and no further intervention is allowed
This doesn’t make sense either, to me anyway. What do you imagine Creation is made of if nothing was previously in existence but God. Whatever Creation is, is tied intimately to his existence and could not sustain itself if he did not exist.
- A creation which is not absolutely perfect and just can not evolve and sustain itself so it would eventually collapse
The sole reality is that we are experiencing things at the moment so called now, past is dead and we have memory of it, future does not exist.Why not?
I have not seen this shown to be true in any logical way.
Yes, God can create creation. The act of creation and existence of God is at same point since otherwise we end up with a paradox. Namely we cannot have two sate of beings that in first there is sole God and the second one God and creation since that as you realize cause a sequence of state of being which is logically impossible in state of timeless.So God did not create anything? After all, the very act of creation is an act of change and an act that can be measured with time.
Which would lead to a problem since your logical conclusion contradicts established fact.
Performing two actions is logically impossible in state of timeless since two actions define a sequence/time in which one action follows another.Why limit him to one action?
Makes no sense whatsoever. From a catholic perspective he sustains everything he has created. If he ceases to exist then everything ceases to exist.
Please let me first correct my sentence “A creation which is not absolutely perfect and just can not evolve and sustain itself since otherwise it would eventually collapse”.This doesn’t make sense either, to me anyway. What do you imagine Creation is made of if nothing was previously in existence but God. Whatever Creation is, is tied intimately to his existence and could not sustain itself if he did not exist.
Not quite so. It simply means that all actions occur, from our perspective, simultaneously. Thats what would happen to a being outside of ‘time’. He could perform millions of actions, but if you looked at the beginning and the end of God, if that were possible, then you would see the same millions of action in their entirety, all at once, so to speak.Performing two actions is logically impossible in state of timeless since two actions define a sequence/time in which one action follows another.
Theres no particular reason for this belief, I think. If he is the cause of creation, the reason for creations continuing existence, if it is tied intimately to him, if creation ‘lives, moves and has its being in him’, then there literally is no reason to jump to the idea that we are separated at all.Please let me first correct my sentence “A creation which is not absolutely perfect and just can not evolve and sustain itself since otherwise it would eventually collapse”.
Creation was tied intimately at the instant of creation to God and since after we are causally separated.
I think you need to contemplate on concept of timeless state, so you could realize that only one action is permissible from that state of being.Not quite so. It simply means that all actions occur, from our perspective, simultaneously. Thats what would happen to a being outside of ‘time’. He could perform millions of actions, but if you looked at the beginning and the end of God, if that were possible, then you would see the same millions of action in their entirety, all at once, so to speak.
What would be logically impossible, I think, is for God to be only capable of performing one action. Since then you would have the logical impossibility of a before the action and an after the action. Which would violate your idea of a timeless God.
We live within him but separated because of the problem so called interface problem, meaning that one cannot fuse creation in state of time to God in state of timeless.Theres no particular reason for this belief, I think. If he is the cause of creation, the reason for creations continuing existence, if it is tied intimately to him, if creation ‘lives, moves and has its being in him’, then there literally is no reason to jump to the idea that we are separated at all.
God is supreme good being so it gives the best to the creation.If we were to become as knowledgeable as God, then why would God be a supreme being?
That is exactly the greatness of God.He would be no greater than us.
That is the excellency of creation. We are gifted with, instinct, intuition, wisdom and logical thinking so we could constantly interact with creation and each other to build up the knowledge which is needed.If God only created and never intervened, then how would his creation become knowledgeable of a God that created and then “departed the scene so to speak”.
God has left infinite gifts within and in nature so we could open them one by one so we could construct the puzzle.How does man obtain knowledge of God with no contact with him?
Yes, and it cannot intervene.In your view does God remain present to creation, but just does not intervene?
since timeless only means changeless that means that every action of creation was always contained within Gods mind.I think you need to contemplate on concept of timeless state, so you could realize that only one action is permissible from that state of being.
Properly stated, it is just matter moving through God, there is no time. As matter changes and moves through God he sees and sustains it in existence and sees and sustains everything about it, including its change, which you choose to call time.We live within him but separated because of the problem so called interface problem, meaning that one cannot fuse creation in state of time to God in state of timeless.
No, the existence of God and act of creation happened at the same point so there is not contradiction anywhere. As you mentioned two states, namely first there is only God and second God and creation violates the idea of timeless state.since timeless only means changeless that means that every action of creation was always contained within Gods mind.
Your idea of only one action allowed creates time in God, the time after that action. Which then violates your own idea.
So you are saying that the existence of God and creation came at the same time? Are you saying that God only came into existence, came into being, at the moment of creation? If this is your view, then from what source did God come from if God was not in existence before his creation? The way you state this, gives notion that God and creation both had a starting point. That God in not timeless or eternal.No, the existence of God and act of creation happened at the same point so there is not contradiction anywhere. As you mentioned two states, namely first there is only God and second God and creation violates the idea of timeless state.
Not so. Because your idea now requires a time before God and something else to create God. Which now violates the definition of God.No, the existence of God and act of creation happened at the same point so there is not contradiction anywhere. As you mentioned two states, namely first there is only God and second God and creation violates the idea of timeless state.