God knows what will happen in the future, correct?

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balto said:
No, it doesn’t. Saying that the created world is all that there is does not impose logical necessity on anything if part of what occurs in the created world occurs freely. In order to argue that fatalism is true, you’d have to establish that this created world is logically necessary, which it quite obviously is not. There is nothing in creation that necessitates God’s will, hence no fatalism at God’s level. My choices are not necessitated since I do not desire particular goodness necessarily, hence no fatalism at my level either. Where is the fatalism coming in? The fact that I freely choose something in the future does not necessitate my will right now, unless you of course assume that nothing is free, in which case you have simply begged the question against the defender of free will and not refuted her position.
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What is the content of creation act? It couldn’t be empty. Isn’t it equal to God’s knowledge?
 
Bahman said:
Suppose your fate, what God sees, is to go to hell. Doesn’t that bother you?
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If we truly repent hell should not bother any of us, none of us will get out of this world without some sort of stain, the catholic church teaches purging of stain. This is more of God’s grace .

That is the thing, I do not have God’s mind, the God of love will justify all of us according to His justice not ours, if we follow the ten commands it would seem to me we will be justified, of course there is much more for us to do according to His Word.

God Bless:)
 
balto said:
In order to make this argument, you would have to assume that the future is in some sense real right now, which is precisely what free will denies. That it is real at a later point does not mean it is real now. To say that there happens to be a fact of the matter that I perform an action in the future does not mean that my performing that action was logically necessary, either absolutely or suppositionally by an external agent. It only becomes necessary suppositionally assuming that I in fact choose to do it, which is an affirmation of free will.
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Future is fixed because God knows it.
 
Bahman said:
What is the content of creation act? It couldn’t be empty. Isn’t it equal to God’s knowledge?
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Well no, the content of creation is not equal to God’s knowledge since God also knows Himself. But yes, God knows all facts about the universe if that is what you are asking.
 
Bahman said:
Future is fixed because God knows it.
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That there is an actual future that God knows contingently does not mean that there is no free will. That actual future is the way it is in part due to free actions. How does that destroy free will? You have to assume from the beginning that there is no free will to get the conclusion you want, but that is question begging because you are trying to disprove free will using God’s omniscience but implicitly assumed its impossibility as a hidden premise.
 
Bahman said:
Future is fixed because God knows it.
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  1. Is your belief (that the future is fixed) fixed by God?
  2. Is my belief (that the future is not fixed by God) also fixed by God?
  3. If so God is directly responsible for your mistake or my mistake!
 
balto said:
Well no, the content of creation is not equal to God’s knowledge since God also knows Himself. But yes, God knows all facts about the universe if that is what you are asking.
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Does knowledge of content of creation is necessary for the act creation? Yes. How God could create otherwise!? Does this knowledge include the act of each individual? Yes. God is changeless hence there is one unique creation and a unique fate for each individual. Please note that I am note arguing against free will but the fact that we all have fates.
 
balto said:
That there is an actual future that God knows contingently does not mean that there is no free will. That actual future is the way it is in part due to free actions. How does that destroy free will? You have to assume from the beginning that there is no free will to get the conclusion you want, but that is question begging because you are trying to disprove free will using God’s omniscience but implicitly assumed its impossibility as a hidden premise.
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I am not arguing that we don’t have free will. What I am arguing is that we have a fate meaning that our chosen actions always matches what they have to be.
 
tonyrey said:
  1. Is your belief (that the future is fixed) fixed by God?
  2. Is my belief (that the future is not fixed by God) also fixed by God?
  3. If so God is directly responsible for your mistake or my mistake!
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We have to chose between undermined future or fixed future in another word having a fate. There is no other option. Where this fate come form? Very act of creation.
 
That God knows us eternally does not change the fact that we choose through our actions who we are. The future is not set, which is what makes it the future. I cannot imagine the universe as infinite time, but I do know that each moment exists in its nowness, brought into being by God who is infinitely Now as the Father of creation. This is a “living” universe, not existing as a dead past, but rather as a manifestation of God’s glory, springing forth new, each moment, all moments. In each particular moment that we find ourselves (like right now) within the flow of time (always centred on our human soul’s albeit limited, eternal nature), we participate in its transformation into the next. None of it is predetermined because in each of these moments, we act freely.
 
Aloysium said:
That God knows us eternally does not change the fact that we choose through our actions who we are. The future is not set, which is what makes it the future. I cannot imagine the universe as infinite time, but I do know that each moment exists in its nowness, brought into being by God who is infinitely Now as the Father of creation. This is a “living” universe, not existing as a dead past, but rather as a manifestation of God’s glory, springing forth new, each moment, all moments. In each particular moment that we find ourselves (like right now) within the flow of time (always centred on our human soul’s finite eternal now), we participate in its transformation into the next. None of it is predetermined because in each of these moments, we act freely.
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I didn’t say that you don’t have free will. You of course are free but the very fact that God knows you and your action implements that you have a fate tighten to very act of creation.
 
Bahman said:
I didn’t say that you don’t have free will. You of course are free but the very fact that God knows you and your action implements that you have a fate tighten to very act of creation.
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I understand that English is a second language for you, which may be why I don’t understand what your are saying or even if you disagree with me.

I would not use the term “fate” as it implies that external agencies are responsible for the most important aspects of the outcome (eg - heaven/hell). What has been revealed denies that this is the case.

In terms of creation, it is an ongoing process which had a beginning. We are part of that process and are like “god’s” in our ability to participate in the act of creation. Unlike other “lower” creatures, God does not dictate how we behave. He has not made us good or bad people who then act according to our nature. The whole point in our being here is to become truly like gods; i.e. completely loving beings.

As far as you or I are concerned, meeting in our respective “here-and-now’s” the future is full of potential. Where you will be on this date next year depends on what you decide. God is with you in this moment while in eternity knowing the outcome of your encounter with Him.

If this does not fit your cosmology, there is an issue with your cosmology.
 
Aloysium said:
I understand that English is a second language for you, which may be why I don’t understand what your are saying or even if you disagree with me.

I would not use the term “fate” as it implies that external agencies are responsible for the most important aspects of the outcome (eg - heaven/hell). What has been revealed denies that this is the case.

In terms of creation, it is an ongoing process which had a beginning. We are part of that process and are like “god’s” in our ability to participate in the act of creation. Unlike other “lower” creatures, God does not dictate how we behave. He has not made us good or bad people who then act according to our nature. The whole point in our being here is to become truly like gods; i.e. completely loving beings.

As far as you or I are concerned, meeting in our respective “here-and-now’s” the future is full of potential. Where you will be on this date next year depends on what you decide. God is with you in this moment while in eternity knowing the outcome of your encounter with Him.

If this does not fit your cosmology, there is an issue with your cosmology.
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How could God knows our decisions if they are up to us? You said we are gods who are able to create a situation.
 
onenow1 said:
I think it is really simple He created us …

God Bless:)
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I don’t think if that is quite simple. So you are basically arguing that giving the circumstances in a situation God can know our decisions. This means that circumstances define the decision hence we are not free.
 
onenow1,
re: “I think it is really simple He created us …”

Before He creates an individual does He know if He will eventually be casting the person into the lake of fire?
 
Bahman said:
Does knowledge of content of creation is necessary for the act creation? Yes. How God could create otherwise!? Does this knowledge include the act of each individual? Yes. God is changeless hence there is one unique creation and a unique fate for each individual. Please note that I am note arguing against free will but the fact that we all have fates.
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Yes, God’s knowledge is necessary for creation to exist, but that does not mean that God’s knowledge of creation is necessary (it isn’t since He could have created something else) which is what you need to establish fatalism.

I don’t know how you are defining “fate.” If fate simply means that there is a fact of the matter that we end up doing certain things and having certain things happen to us, then there is nothing in that definition of fate that precludes free will, since what we do are free acts that could have been otherwise. If you are saying that my fate is necessary, then you are implicitly denying that free will is actual and not establishing that it is not.
 
balto said:
Yes, God’s knowledge is necessary for creation to exist, but that does not mean that God’s knowledge of creation is necessary (it isn’t since He could have created something else) which is what you need to establish fatalism.
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You need to elaborate how a changeless God could create something else?
balto said:
I don’t know how you are defining “fate.” If fate simply means that there is a fact of the matter that we end up doing certain things and having certain things happen to us, then there is nothing in that definition of fate that precludes free will, since what we do are free acts that could have been otherwise. If you are saying that my fate is necessary, then you are implicitly denying that free will is actual and not establishing that it is not.
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There is no tension between having a fate and free will. We just need to choose and do what we are supposed to do. Having fate however attaches a certain element of reality to each person that s/he cannot escape it.
 
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