God, Science and Naturalism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Al_Moritz
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Orthodox (Eastern) Christianity is something entirely different than Buddhism or Hinduism.
 
tootle_toot said:
Sir, are you really just trolling me with your repeated, unsupported, assertions?
Click to expand...
Here. take a look in this handy mirror. I have seen this persona and at least one previous one repeat over and over the same stuff. Neutron flux? Really? Speculation at best, nowhere near proof, hence I am not required to prove it incorrect as you have no real evidence in favor of your assertion. So just as happened to your prior incarnation of a rodent zombie, welcome to the ignore bucket; there really isn’t enough time left here to waste on lost causes.
 
Pattylt said:
Ok, as much as I hate to go down this rabbit hole. How do you know that the 14 century shroud makers didn’t use the ancient coins to design the face on the shroud. Because they seem similar isn’t proof of what came first.
Click to expand...
Prof. Fanti discusses this issue at some length on pages 139 to 144 and in Section A.3 of the appendix.* On pg. 140 He states:

“In the middle ages all the numismatic depictions depictions of Christ today available were not known; therefore the hypothetical artist had no way to copy something that has been discovered centuries afterward.”

*THE SHROUD OF TURIN
FIRST CENTURY AFTER CHRIST!, Fanti/Malfi, 2020, 2nd edition.
 
Last edited:
Is the coin being referred to the one posted upthread? If so, I’m not seeing the similarity of likenesses…at all! To me, the shroud looks like a European, not a 1st century Jew. It looks more like someone with a strong bias to believe the shroud is Jesus is reaching way over the top.

You are allowed to believe the shroud is real. Why is it so very important that others believe in it as well? Especially as the Vatican also allows others to reject it. Is your faith perhaps a bit too dependent on what others think? It doesn’t work that way from my understanding.
 
Freddy said:
48.png
tootle_toot:
*THE SHROUD OF TURIN, FIRST CENTURY AFTER CHRIST!, Fanti/Malfi, 2nd edition, 2020.
Prof. Fanti’s research into 6th century Gold coins proved that the images of Christ found on these coins was derived from the facial image on the Shroud.
Click to expand...
Honestly, this is the best illustration of a 6th century coin I can find. The image is meant to be of Jesus.
Are you being serious?
Click to expand...
Photos of the coins in question are found on pages 86 to 137 and an in depth analysis is provided. On page 416 Prof. Fanti concludes that:
"Thus the probability that the artist (coin engraver) has fortuitously got that particular result (a face of Christ with all the details of the face on the Shroud) are seven chances in one billion of billions.
:
 
AlNg said:
How do you know that the image is of Jesus and not someone else?
Click to expand...
On page 124 to 129* Stevenson and Habermas discuss this issue in depth and conclude that :
“…we have a 1 chance in 82,944,000 that the man buried in the Shroud is not Jesus.”

Verdict on the Shroud, Kenneth Stevenson and Gary Habermas, 1981
 
tootle_toot said:
On page 124 to 129* Stevenson and Habermas discuss this issue in depth and conclude that :
“…we have a 1 chance in 82,944,000 that the man buried in the Shroud is not Jesus.”

Verdict on the Shroud , Kenneth Stevenson and Gary Habermas, 1981
Click to expand...
OK. I will check out the reference and calculation. The only problem is that the libraries are currently closed and the price of the book on amazon is $768.57 plus $3.99 shipping costs. Some libraries are allowing pickups at the curb.
 
Last edited:
tootle_toot said:
Thus the probability that the artist (coin engraver) has fortuitously got that particular result (a face of Christ with all the details of the face on the Shroud) are seven chances in one billion of billions.
Click to expand...
Seven in one billion of billions! Is that an actual number? Sounds very Carl Sagan to me:


Well, I’m not really impressed. But I can tell that you are.
 
Last edited:
Pattylt said:
And what in the heck is a neutron flux?
Click to expand...

A neutron flux is a neutron radiation event. Prof. Phillips of Harvard University advised the British Museum in 1988 that such an event might have been a side effect of the vanishing of Jesus’ corpse from its sealed tomb. That radiation would have caused some the nitrogen in the Shroud’s linen fibers to be converted into carbon fourteen. The details of the Shroud’s 1988 C-14 data are consistent with this hypothesis, but the British Museum refused to consider that idea, and, instead, jumped to the conclusion that the Shroud dated to the 14th century. Then they manipulated the Shroud’s C-14 data in order to make it pass the required mathematical tests.
 
The facial image on the Shroud is consistent with the appearance of a first century Jewish man. Note the long narrow nose, the long hair, and the unbraided pony tail.

If the Shroud is authentic, then it provides a image of Jesus’ corpse as it lay in the tomb. It also confirms what the Gospels relate: that His corpse vanished from the inside of its sealed tomb. The Shroud’s image seems to be proof of a supernatural event, a miracle. I have previously explained why the miracle of the Holy Shroud is the promised Sign of Jonah in the Gospel of Matthew.
 
Last edited:
tootle_toot said:
such an event might have been a side effect of the vanishing of Jesus’ corpse from its sealed tomb
Click to expand...
We’re talking about God, there’s no “side effects”, if c14 was introduced it was by God’s will with all knowledge of what would come including how it would affect lab tests millennia later, agreed?
 
Thank you. Agreed. God punks those atheist scientists in a big way. Note how He arranged for the Shroud to be surreptitiously introduced into Europe with no provenance. Its a colossal trick He has played to expose those who hate Him and His Church.
 
Why does Fr. Spitzer ignore the Holy Shroud ? I could not find any mention of it.
 
tootle_toot said:
God punks those atheist scientists in a big way. Note how He arranged for the Shroud to be surreptitiously introduced into Europe with no provenance. Its a colossal trick He has played to expose those who hate Him and His Church.
Click to expand...
Oh not just the atheists, lots of very devout people over the centuries have claimed it to be a forgery including Bishops. Of course if God intended to punk them, they really didn’t stand a chance did they? Tricky fella.
 
The trick that God has played on us with the Holy Shroud should be taken as a warning: we are all being tricked in this present time. Our doom is right around the corner, it is obvious, and it is something that we have created in violation of His sacred laws. But, as predicted, we go on living as if nothing is wrong.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top