God wrote the Bible not the Catholic Church

[jmcrae]

You can stop smiling now.

Let’s just go to the Greek to settle this… The Greek word used is spelled http://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/gs163.gifhttp://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/gs165.gif It is the same word used in Mat 16:19 and also in Rev 2:20 when referring to the church.

The 12 disciples were considered the church and Jesus was speaking to them.

Again, you are not reading the whole section, but just picking out a line here and a line there. Reading from the top, we see that the letters in the Book of Revelation are each addressed to one person - the “angel” of each of the Churches. (I think that the term “angel” is referring to the Bishop, but I don’t really know.)

Here… “thee” refers to the “church in Thyatira”

Because he’s addressing one person - the “angel” of the Church of Thyatira. One person, whoever that might be.

Rev 2:20
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee(http://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/gs163.gifhttp://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/gs165.gif), because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

And again, addressing one person (the angel), who is the representative of that group.

Mat 16:19
And I will give unto thee(http://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/gs163.gifhttp://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/gs165.gif) the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

One person - Peter.

 

[believers]

If you read the whole section, it’s obvious that Jesus is speaking to Peter, even in modern translations that use “you” instead of “thee.”

You or thee it doesn’t matter. The New Testament was written in Greek. The same greek word to refer to the church in thyatira is the same greek word used to refer to the church in Jesus time (12 disciples)

What you don’t understand is that Jesus gave them all the keys. That’s is why they are all sitting on thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

 

[believers]

Again, you are not reading the whole section, but just picking out a line here and a line there. Reading from the top, we see that the letters in the Book of Revelation are each addressed to one person - the “angel” of each of the Churches. (I think that the term “angel” is referring to the Bishop, but I don’t really know.)

Because he’s addressing one person - the “angel” of the Church of Thyatira. One person, whoever that might be.

And again, addressing one person (the angel), who is the representative of that group.

One person - Peter.

God is telling the angel that He has something against the angel?

Rev 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;

 

[jmcrae]

God is telling the angel that He has something against the angel?

God is telling John to write to the angel of the church (meaning a person who represents the church - not a literal angel).

Rev 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;

Read the whole thing all the way through.

 

[Sixtus]

Quote:Originally Posted by Robert902
I’m not trying to be disrespectful, but every time I pick up my New Testament, I am going to try and follow Jesus, not the Pope. And I think this clearly illustrates the intent of Psalm 118:8 “It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.” And if we follow the Pope, we are putting our confidence in a man aren’t we?.

Ani Ibi replied:

No. We are putting our confidence in Jesus who gave the Pope authority.

When you do not respect the authority of the Pope, then you are putting your confidence in man by not listening to Jesus

AMEN

 

[Sixtus]

I am an 18 yo highschool and even I do not dare question the authority of HOLY MOTHER CHURCH.
Believer you look to no one other than your own mind( your own fallible mind) for the true meaning of scripture. WHAT ARROGANCE

We are told in 1 Thess. 5:12-13 TO OBEY those “men” who our over us.
And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, 13 and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves.

These men were not self-appointed.2 Cor. 2:17
For we are not, as so many,[a] peddling the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ.

• Paul says the elders are not just random peddlers of God’s word. They are actually commissioned by God. It is not self-appointed authority. ( as your pastor is). They were appointed by the apostles(who were appointed by God). These men had the same authority as them.–Acts 1:24-26
  “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

SAME PATTERN OF APOSOLIC SUCCESSION CAN BE SEEN THROUGHOUT SCRIPTURE

Acts 6:6 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority has transferred beyond the original twelve apostles as the Church has grown.

Acts 9:17-19 - even Paul, who was directly chosen by Christ, only becomes a minister after the laying on of hands by a bishop.

Acts 13:3 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination).

Acts 14:23 - the apostles and newly-ordained men appointed elders to have authority throughout the Church.

2 Cor. 1:21-22 - Paul writes that God has commissioned certain men and sealed them with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee.

Col 1:25 - Paul calls his position a divine “office.” An office has successors. It does not terminate at death. Or it’s not an office. See also Heb. 7:23 – an office continues with another successor after the previous office-holder’s death.

1 Tim. 3:1 - Paul uses the word “episcopoi” (bishop) which requires an office. Everyone understood that Paul’s use of episcopoi and office meant it would carry on after his death by those who would succeed him.

1 Tim. 4:14 - again, apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination).

1 Tim. 5:22 - Paul urges Timothy to be careful in laying on the hands (ordaining others). The gift of authority is a reality and cannot be used indiscriminately.

2 Tim. 4:1-6 - at end of Paul’s life, Paul charges Timothy with the office of his ministry . We must trace true apostolic lineage back to a Catholic bishop.

Titus 1:5; Luke 10:1 - the elders of the Church are appointed and hold authority. God has His children participate in Christ’s work.

1 John 4:6 - whoever knows God listens to us (the bishops and the successors to the apostles). This is the way we discern truth and error (not just by reading the Bible and interpreting it for ourselves).

Exodus 18:25-26 - Moses appoints various heads over the people of God. We see a hierarchy, a transfer of authority and succession.

Exodus 40:15 - the physical anointing shows that God intended a perpetual priesthood with an identifiable unbroken succession.

Numbers 16:40 - shows God’s intention of unbroken succession within His kingdom on earth. Unless a priest was ordained by Aaron and his descendants, he had no authority.

Deut. 34:9 - Moses laid hands upon Joshua, and because of this, Joshua was obeyed as successor, full of the spirit of wisdom.

“First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God” (2 Peter 1:20-21).

Unless you can show me an unbroken line of succession in your church YOU MUST SUBMIT TO OURS.

I WOULD NOT BELIEVE ONE WORD OF THE BIBLE IF IT WERE NOT FOR HOLY MOTHER CHURCH.

GOD INSPIRED IT, MAN RECORDED IT, THE CHURCH PROTECTS IT FROM THOSE WHO TWIST IT TO THERE OWN DESTRUCTION 2 Peter 3:16

and again I say AMEN

 

[CatholismRox]

God wrote the bible, he instituted the Catholic Church so we could have salvation. Yes we need the church for sacraments.

 

[Janet_S]

Jesus’ first words to Simon Peter were “come follow Me”(Mark 1:17). His last words to him were “You must follow Me”(John 21:22). Jesus is the head of the church, and we are all (including Peter) to follow Him. How can there be two heads of the church?
By giving Simon a new name, Jesus introduced a change in character.
Cephas in Aramaic, Peter in Greek (the name means “a rock”).

God Bless,
Robert

There must be a reason why he gave him this new name. What is the reason?

 

[Janet_S]

What are the keys of the kingdom of heaven? Where they given only to Simon Peter? No, Jesus gives them to those who make the same confession made by Peter, those who know Christ as saviour.
The keys were the badge of authority of the office of the scribes, who interpreted the Scriptures to the people (see Neh. 8:2-8). Every Christian today has the Scriptures and, therefore the keys. If we withold the Word, we “bind on earth”; if we give the Word, we “loose on earth”. No man or individual church has the keys-to the exclusion of all other believers If you are a child of God, you have the keys as well as any person (of God) has the keys.

God Bless,
Robert

You’re taking a lot of liberties with this interpretation. Jesus is saying nothing about Scriptures in these verses, and it couldn’t be clearer who Jesus is talking to–He is talking to Peter, not to all believers. How do the words Simon, him, and you refer to all believers? If Jesus meant what you think He means, he could have said it. Please, don’t try to force your theology onto this verse.

"Jesus said **to him **in reply, “Blessed are **you, Simon **son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say **to you, you are **Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

 

[Blue_Serenity]

The Lord’s public ministry was not necessary, He could have done it in private. We have His word in the bible handed down to us from God. God gave us the bible.

I agreed with you until I read this part. Jesus Christ spoke to all because the Bible wasn’t invented yet. Writers of the Bible took Jesus’ message and wrote it down for all generations to come to know.

 

[Mystic_of_God]

Everybody knows that God gave us the bible. It was given by God as a whole book from Genesis to Revelation. Everyting we need for life is in the bible. Protestants are right.we do not need a church of any kind.All we need is the Bible.

The Lord’s public ministry was not necessary, He could have done it in private. We have His word in the bible handed down to us from God. God gave us the bible. The Catholic Church put books into it that God did not pen. Protestants took them out again!

We do not need the Catholic Church as we are free to interpret it as we want. That is why athiests interpret it different to SDA which is different to JW’s which is different to Moslems, which is different to mainstream Protestants which is different to Catholic and Orthodox.

It can be interpreted however you want. My agnostic friends interpret it and they dont even believe in it.

So we did not need a Catholic Church. The Catholic Church the pope and His Apostles were actually not necessary.

Catholics are idolatrous because they worship the Father Son and Holy Spirit, Mary and the saints. You should worship only one God and the Bible.

Oh for goodness SAKE! QUIT TROLLING!

Trolls are dirty h4xors

 

[hosemonkey]

Oh for goodness SAKE! QUIT TROLLING!

Trolls are dirty h4xors

They don’t get the joke. Sixtus is pulling the legs of protestants who not only worship the Bible, but also believe that they are smart enough to interpret it correctly.

 

[believers]

There must be a reason why he gave him this new name. What is the reason?

To distinguish Peter as Petros and Jesus as Petra.

1Cr 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock (Petra) was Christ.

Hbr 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

 

[water]

Hbr 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Let’s focus on this first, then go on to the next.
If Jesus was the same yesterday, and today, and forever, then it means that He is always God.

Why non-Catholics have problems acknowledging Virgin Mary was the Mother Of the Lord.

 

[Robert902]

believers;2150629:

Peter answered from the group. Nowhere does it say that Jesus took him aside completely away from the group.

Hi, It would be pretty silly to put some one in charge of a church and not let anyone know !

Peace, OneNow1

Romans 3:10-14 “As it is written: there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The poison of vipers is on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
This “no one” includes everyone including the Pope. So why would Jesus leave someone who falls into this catagory as head of His church? That just doesn’t make sense. Jesus is the Rock, the foundation and head of His church.

God Bless,
Robert

 

[Mannyfit75]

onenow1;2155137:

Romans 3:10-14 “As it is written: there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The poison of vipers is on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
This “no one” includes everyone including the Pope. So why would Jesus leave someone who falls into this catagory as head of His church? That just doesn’t make sense. Jesus is the Rock, the foundation and head of His church.

God Bless,
Robert

Jesus is the Rock and He built Peter upon Simon, Peter (or Kepha the Aramaic word for Rock… also known as Cepha) since Jesus ascended into heaven to be at the Right Hand of God, the Father.

Yet, we see in Matthew 16:18.

Jesus SAID, Blessed are You (Singular), Simon, Son of Bar Jona. For flesh and blood has not revealed this But My Father who is in Heaven. You are Peter, and Upon this Rock I will built My Church. I will give you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bind in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loose in heaven."

Apparently, Scripture says that Jesus establish a Church upon Peter. That Jesus grafted Peter upon himself. Since the Church is not made on one rock. Jesus being the cornerstone the stone builders rejected. The Succession of Peter continues today under the Pope Benedict XVI.

 

[believers]

Robert902;2157560:

Jesus is the Rock and He built Peter upon Simon, Peter (or Kepha the Aramaic word for Rock… also known as Cepha) since Jesus ascended into heaven to be at the Right Hand of God, the Father.

Yet, we see in Matthew 16:18.

Jesus SAID, Blessed are You (Singular), Simon, Son of Bar Jona. For flesh and blood has not revealed this But My Father who is in Heaven. You are Peter, and Upon this Rock I will built My Church. I will give you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bind in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loose in heaven."

Apparently, Scripture says that Jesus establish a Church upon Peter. That Jesus grafted Peter upon himself. Since the Church is not made on one rock. Jesus being the cornerstone the stone builders rejected. The Succession of Peter continues today under the Pope Benedict XVI.

Jesus Christ built His church on a confession of the mouth believed in the heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. That was the Gospel to the Jews while Jesus was on earth. This knowledge only comes from the Father.

Rom 10:1
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Mat 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Mat 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

[jmcrae]

Mat 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

The first infallible Papal pronouncement.

Mat 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Thus, Jesus acknowledges the infallibility of Peter, our first Pope.

 

[Sixtus]

Mat 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
—End Quote—
The first infallible Papal pronouncement.

Nice one

 

[Grateful4mercy]

Romans 3:10-14 “As it is written: there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The poison of vipers is on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
This “no one” includes everyone including the Pope. So why would Jesus leave someone who falls into this catagory as head of His church? That just doesn’t make sense. Jesus is the Rock, the foundation and head of His church.

God Bless,
Robert

I’m not usually the type to pile on when somebody is already engaged in a debate, but I think this particular quote deserves an answer.

First, this quote is USUALLY only used to disprove the Mary ever virgin doctrine, not the Pope, but whatever.

The big question is, what is Paul trying to say? Obviously he assumes his readers KNOW what scripture he is referring to (hint, it ain’t in the NT) and understand its full context. Just to save some time, he is referring to Psalm 14

14:1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
there is none who does good.

2 The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man,
to see if there are any who understand,
who seek after God.

3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
there is none who does good,
not even one.

4 Have they no knowledge, all the evildoers
who eat up my people as they eat bread
and do not call upon the Lord?

5 There they are in great terror,
for God is with the generation of the righteous.
6 You would shame the plans of the poor,
but the Lord is his refuge.

7 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion!
When the Lord restores the fortunes of his people,
let Jacob rejoice, let Israel be glad.

But wait a minute…what is that in verse 5? Who could be righteous if NOT EVEN ONE has done good? Perhaps we are looking at two different groups here?

What is your interpretation?

God Bless