Of course He was. Who's disputing that?
Good Friday
- Thread starter rstrats
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Of course He was. Who's disputing that?
This has been answered a few times now.
Since you are still pursuing and answer to a question that has been answered, I am now thinking that you are asking the wrong question.
What exactly are you looking for?
What do you wish to accomplish here?
HomeschoolDad,
re: "By 'mistranslation', I refer to anything that creates an apparent contradiction in God's Word. God does not lie. And keep in mind the original texts are lost."
So then at least some of what we have might not actually be His word.
re: " I hesitate to speak for Haydock, but by 'natural day, I assume he means a 24-hour day, normally beginning and ending at midnight..."
Is that your position also? I thought they used a sunset to sunset to delineate a calendar day back then.
re: "...and by 'common computation', I assume he means the same thing."
I was referring to the "the nights used not to be separated" part of the statement. I don't understand what that means.
re: "'Three days, night or day', could indeed be the true sense of the original Scripture."
Meaning "what" with regard to Matthew 12:40?
re: "May I ask, though, what point you are trying to prove?"
Whether or not the idea of a Friday crucifixion/Sunday resurrection is an official position of the Catholic Church. The replies here seem to be saying that it isn't.
re: "That Scripture contradicts itself? That Scripture is not true?"
No.
re: "That the crucifixion (which from the account of His burial, viz. the rush to bury him before sundown on the Sabbath, clearly took place on a Friday) didn't take place on Friday?"
No, at least not for the purpose of this topic.
re: "Or that the resurrection did not take place on Sunday?"
No.
re: "...please share from what Christian confession, if any, you come."
I was brought up Baptist.
re: "By 'mistranslation', I refer to anything that creates an apparent contradiction in God's Word. God does not lie. And keep in mind the original texts are lost."
So then at least some of what we have might not actually be His word.
re: " I hesitate to speak for Haydock, but by 'natural day, I assume he means a 24-hour day, normally beginning and ending at midnight..."
Is that your position also? I thought they used a sunset to sunset to delineate a calendar day back then.
re: "...and by 'common computation', I assume he means the same thing."
I was referring to the "the nights used not to be separated" part of the statement. I don't understand what that means.
re: "'Three days, night or day', could indeed be the true sense of the original Scripture."
Meaning "what" with regard to Matthew 12:40?
re: "May I ask, though, what point you are trying to prove?"
Whether or not the idea of a Friday crucifixion/Sunday resurrection is an official position of the Catholic Church. The replies here seem to be saying that it isn't.
re: "That Scripture contradicts itself? That Scripture is not true?"
No.
re: "That the crucifixion (which from the account of His burial, viz. the rush to bury him before sundown on the Sabbath, clearly took place on a Friday) didn't take place on Friday?"
No, at least not for the purpose of this topic.
re: "Or that the resurrection did not take place on Sunday?"
No.
re: "...please share from what Christian confession, if any, you come."
I was brought up Baptist.
Certainly not me.
That is entirely possible. Only the original manuscripts, which we do not have, are infallible. That's one reason we have a teaching Church, guided by the Holy Ghost.
Sunset to sunset would still be 24 hours.
Not having Haydock here to elucidate what he meant, I assume he meant that a 24-hour day was just spoken of as one day, without distinction between day and night
You tell me.
I would have to delve into whether there has ever been an infallible, defined teaching that says this. It has been part of Catholic Tradition from time immemorial. I can't imagine that the Holy Ghost would allow the Church to be deceived in this fashion.
See above.
po18guy
Well-known member
In ancient Israel, any portion of a day was counted as a day. So,
Any portion of Friday, Saturday and Sunday = three days in the earth.
Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday night = three nights in the earth.
NOTE: Jesus did not say it would be three nights in the TOMB, but rather the "bowels of the earth" He was not free to travel anywhere else.
You mention Thursday night time and Friday daytime, but you don't mention Thursday daytime.
When did He begin His time in the "bowels of the earth"?
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But it makes all the difference with regard to the number of night times.
But the Messiah did make a distinction with regard to daytimes and night times.
How can I tell you what you mean?
I don't understand what I'm supposed to see.
So, you believe the three hours of darkness in the afternoon can be counted as one of the nights in the "heart of the earth"?
And that the "subterranean dungeon where Christ was apparently kept the night of his arrest at Gethsemane" can also be counted as one of the nights in the "heart of the earth?
I started the topic to see if the idea of a Friday crucifixion/Sunday resurrection was an official doctrine of the Catholic Church. Apparently it's not.
I meant "I don't know the answer, you might be better able to offer a conjecture than I would".
See my reference to a teaching Church and her magisterium, guided by the Holy Ghost.
What the level of belief required of a Catholic in this regard is, I do not know. We do know from Scripture that the crucifixion took place on a Friday, the parasceve before the Sabbath. A Sunday resurrection is not something with which Catholics generally take issue.
But you're the one who made the statement.
Not necessary since it has already been suggested that it isn't an official doctrine of the Church.
Okay, then, what do you think the truth of the matter is? That Christ was crucified on a day other than Friday (not likely from what we know from Scripture)? Or that He actually arose on Monday morning?
The latter assertion would fly in the face of every Christian confession that I've ever heard of. I've never heard of a Christian confession that observes Monday as the Lord's Day.
No one has stated anything at all to imply this.
I am suspect you are not here for an honest search for answers.
Again, no one (particularly me, since this reply was directed toward me) has implied an such.
Suspicion growing stronger.
I suspect this is a falsehood.
HomeschoolDad posted; "Jesus Christ expired on the cross about the ninth hour, or 3 p.m. when the general and supernatural darkness that covered the earth, may be counted for the first night..."
po18guy posted; "The Church of Saint Peter in Gallicantu (cock crow) has a subterranean dungeon where Christ was apparently kept the night of his arrest at Gethsemane. Since he was in the bowels of the earth there Thursday, then Friday evening and Saturday evening, it accounts for the three days and nights.
It looks to me like he's counting the night of the Messiah's time in the dungeon as one of the three nights.
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Based on Matthew 12:40, Mark 8:31 and Luke 24:21, I think a Thursday better fits the account. Plus, I think the Messiah specifically specified 3 days and 3 nights because I think that length of time is what was required in order to consider a person actually dead.
No
I would say, then, go to Rome (as well as to all of the other Christian confessions that observe the crucifixion of Christ on Friday), lay out your exegesis, and implore them to change the calendar to Maundy (Holy) Wednesday, Good Thursday, and retain Easter Sunday. I'm not being sarcastic. If you're right and everybody else is wrong, tell the Church so. Athanasius stood up against practically the whole Church (albeit Arian heretics), so did Luther, so did Lefebvre. More recently, Williamson (requiescat in pace) and Vigano are doing the same thing.
To adjust the chronology of the Passion would not require any change to what we believe or profess in the Creed, nor would it vitiate in any way the Resurrection and what was effected for our redemption and salvation.