Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
I maintain the Holy Spirit transcends nationality. (except for Italians)
Goodbye, St. Louis: Holy Father Tabs Archbishop Burke as Prefect of Apostolic Signatura
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F
frommi
Guest
And I maintain the Holy Spirit doesn’t pick the Pope…unless the spirit is a very bad judge of character (given some of our historically bad popes)I maintain the Holy Spirit transcends nationality. (except for Italians)
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
No, but he moves the cardinals who vote. Just because a pope is bad character doesn’t mean it was a bad choice for the office. Who are we that we can fathom the mind of God?
T
twf
Guest
I would say rather that the Holy Spirit inspires and guides the cardinals, but they still have freewill and can choose unwisely…as does the man they elect.
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
Mt 10:1-7
Jesus summoned his Twelve disciples
and gave them authority over unclean spirits to drive them out
and to cure every disease and every illness.
The names of the Twelve Apostles are these:
first, Simon called Peter, and his brother Andrew;
James, the son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
Philip and Bartholomew,
Thomas and Matthew the tax collector;
James, the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddeus;
Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot
who betrayed Jesus.
Peter always had his foot in his mouth and denied him, yet he was the first Pope. Thomas had no faith and had to physically see the wounds before he believed in the Resurrection. Matthew was a sinner - a Tax collector. Simon was a revolutionary, James and John were known as “thunder” because they had terrible tembers. And Judas betrayed Jesus.
Did Jesus choose unwisely? God doesn’t cause evil, but He can use evil to acheive his ends.
A
ALLGIRLS
Guest
And God can’t be fooled, His Will will be done. I’m thinking of John XXIII, who was supposed to be a quiet, “caretaker” pope, and not do anything. He convened the 2nd Vatican Council! John Paul I was supposedly a compromise. God called him home after 28 days (?) to make way for John Paul II the Great. Given his record, I’m thinking that’s who the Holy Spirit wanted all along, but he was young and Polish, so the Cardinals (being human) ignored Him the 1st go around, but it didn’t work, God had His way.
In Christ,
Ellen
D
Digitonomy
Guest
A contrary view on the influence of the Holy Spirit in the selection of a new pope:
That was former Cardinal Ratzinger’s view.
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
The complete quote.
*
“I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the pope. … I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were,** leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. **Thus the Spirit’s role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, **not that he dictates the candidate **for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.”
Then the clincher: “There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit would **obviously *not have picked.”
I think it makes more sense in context. Just because it’t not obvious, doesn’t mean it God can’t use it. On the other hand, God’s ways are not alway “obvious.” That means we have to trust the HS, even when it doesn’t make sense.
Anyway, the Spirit is with the Church, and hopefully today’s cardinals are more open to the HS than in times past!
D
Digitonomy
Guest
I can’t tell if you’re suggesting that the Holy Father agrees with you on this topic; I have a hard time reading that into his statement. However, you are quite correct that the Lord sometimes works in mysterious ways, and just because Ratzinger seemed to disagree with you, doesn’t automatically mean he’s right and you’re wrong.
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
I’m saying there could be two takes on the Holy Father’s words.
“Holy Spirit would obviously not have picked” - it is not not obvious why the HS would pick such a man
"Holy Spirit would obviously not have picked.” - it is patently not what the HS would have picked
The Pope was speaking German, I didn’t read the original German text, but meanings do get lost in tranlsation. Also, I think we might be reading too much into the statement. Maybe he just said it flippantly, almost as though to apologize for the bad characters that served as Popes.
It’s not like what he said was infallible!
I’m probably just arguing with you out of frustration with STL Catholics and the STL media who have literally saturated us with mean-spirited attacks on the Archbishop’s person. Even last night, at Bible study, a guy managed to inject a negative letter about the Achbshp to the editor of the Post-Dispatch. :hypno:
I would love to see Archbshp Burke be our next Pope - he’d be great, but a part of my reasons are REVENGE.
R
reganq
Guest
:yup::yup::yup: It would make his departure from St. Louis much more bearable.I would love to see Archbshp Burke be our next Pope - he’d be great, but a part of my reasons are REVENGE.
H
Holly3278
Guest
I know I already posted in this thread but this is just so cool. Congratulations to Archbishop Burke! 
W
WSD
Guest
I know I already posted in this thread but this is just so cool. Congratulations to Archbishop Burke!
I agree our departing Archbishop is deserving of congradualations for his promotion and fine work he has done in St. Louis. He carried out the fundamental job of any Bishop; to make clear what is means to be a Catholic and what is not a part of the Catholic Faith. Most the folks in my Parish who did not like him, are that way because of his style. He was a Lawyer in how he set it out and the onse before him were more a Diplomatic syle. I for one am not great enough to judge what one works best, so I say God must have decided we needed him here.
Peace be to you Arch Bishop Burke
WSD
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