Gov. seeks to 'clarify' Indiana 'religious freedom' law

[ishii]

The First Amendment is not an open-ended guarantee of “religious freedom.”

Is there an open ended guarantee that I can force any business to participate in my lifestyle? Do I have a right to walk in to a gay-owned bakery and demand they make me a cake with “Leviticus 18:22” emblazoned on it? And if they refuse I can sue them?

Ishii

 

[estesbob]

I know, I remember the 1-95 corridor being under construction all through the deep south especially in SC and Georgia. It use to detour into the fruit and peanut fields and rows of one room shacks. No-one from the north traveled through there at night. The police would have you in kangaroo court on the road side taking pay offs. They always wanted to know how much cash you had on you, thats what your fine was. Civil War was still in full effect and they were still mad about it too.

Still moving forward, still calling everyone to come along.

Actually we are moving into a new age of intolerance where the full force of the govt is used to bankrupt businesses who don’t endorse the current cultural mores.

 

[ishii]

Actually we are moving into a new age of intolerance where the full force of the govt is used to bankrupt businesses who don’t endorse the current cultural mores.

cultural Marxism / tyranny of political correctness. Let me know when a gay person goes into an Islamic owned bakery demanding a gay wedding cake - instead of picking on Christians all the time.

Ishii

 

[Dawnia]

It is not quite as simple as that. There are obvious restrictions on freedom of religion. For example, if someone wants to offer a live human heart to one of the Aztec gods they are rightly forbidden by law from doing so. As with all freedoms, there are limits. The laws and courts are there to referee disputes between limits on different freedoms.

Attitudes to gays, and to same sex marriage, are changing. That means that some of the boundaries between different freedoms are moving under political influence. When voters change, politicians change with them.

Once the change has been made, then the boundaries between freedoms will settle down again in their new position. The world has adapted to allowing divorce; in time it will adapt to same sex marriage as well.

rossum

The thing about change is that it doesn’t stop. Acceptance of something may settle for a bit, but it won’t stay there for long.

 

[_Abyssinia]

The owners are devout Catholics, by the way. It is unfortunate that they got drug into this dispute. Having dealt extensively with another Colorado public commission I can tell you that they are largely above the rule of law and are known for issuing totally subjective and inconsistent decisions .

I grew up during the civil rights movement. I can recall traveling through the south and seeing the segregated restrooms and separate water fountains . I can remember armed troops being used to allow African-Americans to go to schools and people being beat and having dogs loosed on them for demanding their civil rights. Now some 60 years later we are fighting over baking cakes. It is a sad commentary on our culture

If they are devout Catholics then I wonder why they would have a problem with putting those Biblical verses and imagery on a cake. That bakery couple’s lawyer is railing against Biblical citations, which William Jack wanted on a cake, and imagery etc. The verses in full can be found in that bakery’s couple Bible.

 

[Darryl1958]

I think this silly cake fights trivialize the struggles African Americans went through.

Yes.

These continuing wedding cake dramas demeans the struggle of black in the Civil Rights movement as much as the "Holocaust on a Plate campaign against KFC demeans Jewish victims of fascist racism.

 

[estesbob]

If they are devout Catholics then I wonder why they would have a problem with putting those Biblical verses and imagery on a cake. That bakery couple’s lawyer is railing against Biblical citations, which William Jack wanted on a cake, and imagery etc. The verses in full can be found in that bakery’s couple Bible.

It doesn’t matter why they had a problem putting the verses on the cake all that matters is that they did . Government has no right to force a businessman to do something they do not want to do- they would’ve been wrong to do it in this case and they’re wrong to do it in the case of the bakery that refused to make the homosexual "wedding "cake

 

[FollowChrist34]

Yes.

These continuing wedding cake dramas demeans the struggle of black in the Civil Rights movement as much as the "Holocaust on a Plate campaign against KFC demeans Jewish victims of fascist racism.

The fact that so many cannot distinguish between what constitutes a “right,” i.e. buying a wedding cake that depicts something that offends and violates the tenets of a Christian baker’s faith, vs. the long, bloody struggle for equal rights of former slaves in this country should shake us up a lot more than it does. If you can’t understand the difference, you can’t understand what a civil right in a free society is, or what it is to respect the rights of others in true tolerance. And that spells trouble.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Exactly.

This law is about events, not people.

A homosexual couple can still walk into a bakery and order donuts and coffee. So can a black couple, a Catholic couple, a Muslim couple, etc. People can’t be discriminated against because of who they are (and for homosexuals, unless they are engaging in PDA, how would you know?)

But for bakers whose religion teaches that homosexual “marriage” is “wrong,” they would be committing sin to provide the cake for the wedding, since that is helping the marriage to occur.

In the same way, bakers whose religion teaches that Catholic marriage is “wrong” would be committing sin to provide the cake for the wedding, since that is helping the marriage to occur.

The law needs to protect these bakers. There are several cases where bakers have lost their business (and their livelihood) because they stuck by their religious convictions and refused to provide a cake for a homosexual wedding. This is awful!

What bothers me most about this is that there are plenty of bakeries in most places where homosexuals live, and in this day and age, even if the homosexuals live in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere, it’s easy enough to purchase a wedding cake from a bakery in the nearest big city.

Why don’t the homosexuals go to another bakery instead of taking a baker to court and causing him/her to lose the business and livelihood?

I thought this was about love. All I see from the homosexuals is hate, but not just an emotion–it’s the kind of hate that destroys someone else and then waves signs and rejoices about it. This is pure evil, not justice or civil rights–it’s WRONG and it’s EVIL.

In the U.S., the answer to “poor service” (and what that is will vary from individual to individual) is to take your business elsewhere. There are plenty of bakeries. There is no reason for a homosexual couple to start out their “marriage” by shredding someone who got in their way.

Perhaps they are trying to get revenge for all the times they were bullied growing up, but revenge does not heal. It only spreads more hate. If homosexuals want to convince all the rest of us that they just want to be free to love, then they should practice what they preach.

What bothers me is SSM seems to be the main “sin” being objected to. Yet gluttony is one of the 7 deadly sins. So is pride, extreme greed, lust, anger, etc. These and lots of other things besides SSM are considered sins by the Catholic Church and other faiths which have a conservative bend to them. So if you’re going to go by your religious beliefs, you should also refuse for instance to bake a cake for a heterosexual couple’s wedding where one or both are overweight or obese and refuse to do so for all other sinners.

 

[Darryl1958]

What bothers me is SSM seems to be the main “sin” being objected to. Yet gluttony is one of the 7 deadly sins. So is pride, extreme greed, lust, anger, etc. These and lots of other things besides SSM are considered sins by the Catholic Church and other faiths which have a conservative bend to them. So if you’re going to go by your religious beliefs, you should also refuse for instance to bake a cake for a heterosexual couple’s wedding where one or both are overweight or obese and refuse to do so for all other sinners.

It is a little bit bigoted to assume that someone who is overweight is therefore a sinful glutton, donàt you think?

 

[estesbob]

What bothers me is SSM seems to be the main “sin” being objected to. Yet gluttony is one of the 7 deadly sins. So is pride, extreme greed, lust, anger, etc. These and lots of other things besides SSM are considered sins by the Catholic Church and other faiths which have a conservative bend to them. So if you’re going to go by your religious beliefs, you should also refuse for instance to bake a cake for a heterosexual couple’s wedding where one or both are overweight or obese and refuse to do so for all other sinners.

How about we let people decide what their religious beliefs are without being second guessed by the Govt.? If you want to start a bakery and refuse to serve overweight people that should be your right.

 

[Crossbones]

It doesn’t matter why they had a problem putting the verses on the cake all that matters is that they did . Government has no right to force a businessman to do something they do not want to do-

Like if a business owner wants to segregate black customers from white customers that shouldn’t be a problem.

 

[Dawnia]

What bothers me is SSM seems to be the main “sin” being objected to. Yet gluttony is one of the 7 deadly sins. So is pride, extreme greed, lust, anger, etc. These and lots of other things besides SSM are considered sins by the Catholic Church and other faiths which have a conservative bend to them. So if you’re going to go by your religious beliefs, you should also refuse for instance to bake a cake for a heterosexual couple’s wedding where one or both are overweight or obese and refuse to do so for all other sinners.

SSM is an event. Which other sin is publically celebrated with special cakes?

 

[estesbob]

Like if a business owner wants to segregate black customers from white customers that shouldn’t be a problem.

Please lets not denigrate the African American experience by comparing it to people who’s only distinguishing characteristic is with whom and the manner in which they engage in sex.

 

[Crossbones]

Please lets not denigrate the African American experience by comparing it to people who’s only distinguishing characteristic is with whom and the manner in which they engage in sex.

Just pointing out that is segregation of blacks is entirely consistent “Government has no right to force a businessman to do something they do not want to do”

 

[estesbob]

Just pointing out that is segregation of blacks is entirely consistent “Government has no right to force a businessman to do something they do not want to do”

We are talking about behavior vs race. A nonsensical comparison.

 

[Crossbones]

We are talking about behavior vs race. A nonsensical comparison.

So a government can tell a business what to do?

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Please lets not denigrate the African American experience by comparing it to people who’s only distinguishing characteristic is with whom and the manner in which they engage in sex.

Talk about denigration. LGBT persons had it FAR worse than African Americans in the 40s,50s, and 60s.

 

[estesbob]

Talk about denigration. LGBT persons had it FAR worse than African Americans in the 40s,50s, and 60s.

Oh my-did you really just say that??? Thank you for making my point.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Oh my-did you really just say that??? Thank you for making my point.

If your point was that LGBT persons had it worse than African Americans in the 40s, 50s, and 60s then you’re welcome.