Gun Carrying Catholics Armed

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

My dear Lord, isn’t THAT the truth.

Oh…

We’re talking about differen’t people, aren’t we?

You seem to imagine…

Nope and nope.

There I was specifically referencing the tendency of all folks to fall back on their ideologies in the face of conflicting information. Religious. Political. Any belief that one holds dear.

But to your point-

First, the pro-gun folks here aren’t being particularly honest with themselves about the fact that a “DGU” is a very subjective event that is almost exclusively controlled by the user. It’s not an objective by virtually any real standard. All it says is “I got scared enough to get my gun and call the cops”. Not that I expect anyone on your side of the fence to admit that…

Second, the non-pro-gun folks here need to realize that, yeah, guns are occasionally useful in self-defense. Of course they are. But the greater issue is that when you proliferate to the law-abiding, you proliferate to everyone. On the whole, is that a net-good or a net-ill?

Overall, looking at places like Ozzland and the UK, I vote the latter.

The rare criminal that commits their crime with full, knowing disregard for the law will always have access to a greater edge in firepower than someone who is law abiding. Period. So lets slow down or even reverse this arms-race to a place where a criminal that wants to affect the kind of destruction that virtually requires a semiautomatic weapon with detachable mags will have to be rather wealthy in order to acquire the destructive goods they seek - even on the black market.

Sure, that wouldn’t prevent a wealthy guy from going on a rampage (a la Vegas). But there’s little-to-nothing you can do when a wealthy man wants you dead and is willing to throw away their life to do it. Their means will always trump your counter-means.

The proliferation of arms gets us incrementally closer to fulfilling the fate of all intelligent species - a la the Fermi Paradox. They eventually kill themselves. Lets delay it, shall we?

 

[pnewton]

There are dozens of articles referring to the hidden CDC study; these are only a few from non-blogger sources.

LOL. Calling your site “news” does not make it so. Interesting how each of these links some other website or blog as a “source,” which is why you linked these, and not the actual article, or anything real, official, etc. Somebody knows somebody who knows somebody who knows it is true.

 

[Ender]

LOL. Calling your site “news” does not make it so. Interesting how each of these links some other website or blog as a “source,” which is why you linked these, and not the actual article, or anything real, official, etc. Somebody knows somebody who knows somebody who knows it is true.

Nothing you claimed above applies to the first source I cited (The Western Journal), and based on the fact that the other three cites have yet to be visited by anyone, your assertions about them would seem to be factually deficient as well.

I once had a person declare to me that he wouldn’t believe in God if he stood in front of the burning bush. You have the same mindset.

The Western Journal: Nearly 10 million unique visitors read WesternJournal.com monthly, putting the site securely among the Top 200 most-visited websites in the United States, according to global traffic analysis by Alexa.

 

[Vonsalza]

The Western Journal: Nearly 10 million unique visitors read WesternJournal.com monthly, putting the site securely among the Top 200 most-visited websites in the United States, according to global traffic analysis by Alexa.

Buzzfeed has 200 million and we’d probably agree it’s absolute trash.

Looks like an ad populum fallacy, there. Just sayin’.

 

[Ender]

Buzzfeed has 200 million and we’d probably agree it’s absolute trash.

Looks like an ad populum fallacy, there. Just sayin’.

Many would classify Fox News as trash, but it, along with Buzzfeed, and The Western Journal, are not blogs. They’re not exactly burning bushes either, but the willingness to simply reject evidence contradictory to ones belief is the same in all these cases.

 

[Vonsalza]

Again, I think we see similar behavior exuded by the pro gun camp when we compare US guncrime stats to European measures that reveal the US to basically be the Wild West in comparison.

Logic doesn’t make a good bedfellow with emotion and I find pro-gun arguments to be substantially more emotion-driven, to be frank.

At the end of the day, we’re probably not going to change anyone’s mind here.

 

[upant]

The proliferation of arms gets us incrementally closer to fulfilling the fate of all intelligent species - a la the Fermi Paradox. They eventually kill themselves. Lets delay it, shall we?

have you disposed of yours yet?

why do you get to keep yours when you don’t want others to have them.

 

[mattie1spur]

Finally I have some data. I just began to wonder about the lack of reporting. Thanks!

 

[mattie1spur]

Why doesn’t my post follow the one I meant it to follow?

 

[mattie1spur]

Hey, I classify the Huffington Post, Slate and CNN as trash. Just jumping on a bandwagon. NPR is myopic

 

[pnewton]

Nothing you claimed above applies to the first source I cited

Blah, blah,

So link the actual original source, if it is not all a fiction.

Show the data, not sites about the data, or I am satisfied with that data I know.

 

[Ender]

Blah, blah,

Yes, that’s pretty much what your argument is reduced to.

So link the actual original source, if it is not all a fiction.

Show the data, not sites about the data, or I am satisfied with that data I know.

OK - here’s the link to Kleck’s recent paper on the CDC study. This paper is not yet two weeks old.

Abstract
In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to six states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Estimates based on CDC’s surveys confirm estimates for the same sets of states based on data from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995). Extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole, CDC’s survey data imply that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results.

 

[Ender]

Hey, I classify the Huffington Post, Slate and CNN as trash. Just jumping on a bandwagon. NPR is myopic

Rejecting information because one dislikes or discounts the source is rarely a reasonable approach. It’s generally just a run and hide approach. A perfect example is this article from Truth in Media. They’re just another not-mainstream-media source, but if one summarily dismisses them this piece of information will be missed:

[Editor’s note, April 27th, 2018, 10: 15 am EST: Gary Kleck has removed his research paper online. According to Reason, it was pointed out by National Review’s Robert VerBruggen “that Kleck treats the CDC’s surveys discussed in this paper as if they were national in scope, as Kleck’s original survey was, but they apparently were not. From VerBruggen’s own looks at CDC’s raw data, it seems that over the course of the three years, the following 15 states were surveyed: Alaska, Colorado, Hawaii, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Montana, Ohio, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. (Those states, from 2000 census data, contained around 27 percent of the U.S. population.)

Informed of this, Kleck says he will recalculate the degree to which CDC’s survey work indeed matches or corroborates” his own studies. An earlier version of Kleck’s paper, published April 25, can be seen here.]

The mainstream media hasn’t even covered Kleck’s discovery of the CDC data, let alone this update. It beats me why people consider the MSM to be not only a source of truth but pretty much the only source. The latter hasn’t been accurate for decades, and one can validly question whether there is any truth to the former as well.

 

[Vonsalza]

The day semi autos aren’t available for same day or nearly same day purchase and require some means and some “doing” to obtain, I’ll take the colonel’s suggestion and call my nearest state police post (local pd doesn’t do it - I checked) and schedule a drop off for their destruction.

Cut the receivers and put them on the scrap metal pile where they probably belong.

Same fate will await even my beloved Springfield - as tender as I feel about her.

 

[Maximilian75]

Arent springfields boltguns?

I realy hope a piece of military history like that isint banned. Pin the barrel, make it shoot blanks, fill the bolt with JB weld… I just dont want to see an artifact (even if its a reproduction) destroyed like that…

 

[Vonsalza]

Arent springfields boltguns?

I realy hope a piece of military history like that isint banned. Pin the barrel, make it shoot blanks, fill the bolt with JB weld… I just dont want to see an artifact (even if its a reproduction) destroyed like that…

Oh I think boltguns are excellent civilian, sporting rifles and should be subject to very little control.

I mean Springfield’s M1a, which is a civilian M14, which is an upgraded M1 Garand of WW2 fame.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
I think they’re beautiful, even if they are ultimately Canadian!
Good accuracy for the action, all the punch you could ever want. And just so pretty.

 

[Maximilian75]

Oh okay

I thought you meant the Springfield 19whatever, the American WW1 rifle

 

[Vonsalza]

I realy hope a piece of military history like that isint banned.

The groomsman at my wedding that went on to join the state police had a father that was an avid hunter and a bit of a gun nut - I think I get most of my present philosophy on weapons from him.

He has quite a few fully automatic antiques from yesteryear in his collection that I like to OoH and Aah over. A couple Tommy Guns, a old BAR, a few more exotic others.

Naturally, all the receivers have been cut with a torch, so they’re not “machine guns” anymore. They’re mantle pieces. If you tried to shoot them you’d lose an eye at least.

 

[Vonsalza]

Oh okay

I thought you meant the Springfield 19whatever, the American WW1 rifle

The American Mauser. M1903.

We stole that one from the Mauser brothers in Germany. Literally ripped off their design, put our own caliber in it and called it our own.

 

[Maximilian75]

I think I’m going to teach, and I would love to get some like that - A brown bess, springfield, M14, maybe a vietnam era AR, all neutered, all to just allow kids to hold and see history