Gun Carrying Catholics Armed

[Pup7]

I am of the mindset that if that’s what someone wants to do, at some point you will not be able to stop them. It’s frustrating when someone completes the act in the military, and they act as though it was all leadership’s fault - as if commanders are supposed to be with people night and day. These folks are adults. There are limits to what you can do without forcing people into mental health treatment - and even in the military we have laws and parameters for that. If you don’t meet them, we can’t involuntarily commit you. You still have rights.

I just can’t fathom feeling that way as a kiddo.

Not trying to railroad the thread here…

 

[Ender]

As certain weapons are inherently more lethal than others, you’re wrong here.

It it easier to kill a man with an AR-15 or a switchblade?

Do you really need to even think about it?

Growing up when and where I did, kids had much easier access to weapons than is imaginable today, yet there were virtually zero incidents of random, mass shootings. Trying to solve this problem by focusing on the weapon really misses the mark. Yes, if there were no firearms the incidence of mass killings might be greatly reduced, or it just might cause the same people to look for alternative methods, like Timothy McVeigh did.

The real problem is deeper than the particular tool these people employ.

 

[Vonsalza]

Trying to solve this problem by focusing on the weapon really misses the mark.

It’s not a complete and perfect solution, I’ll absolutely give you that. But, tragically, those kinds of solutions tend to exist only in our brains.

Frankly, there’s no way to legally enforce the best solution of “Well, we just need parents to love their kids more and raise them more attentively and get everyone the counseling any may need”.

That best solution is “pie in the sky”. There’s no way to accountably bring it about. So we look for solutions THAT CAN happen. Things we CAN do.

And we can absolutely reduce the supply of guns.

Yes, if there were no firearms the incidence of mass killings might be greatly reduced, or it just might cause the same people to look for alternative methods, like Timothy McVeigh did.

Sure! But in keeping with the basic economics we’ve been discussing, the harder you make it for someone to commit a large scale crime, the fewer of them that happen!

Good enough for me, friend.

 

[Vonsalza]

We even see that here in this state. The further East you go, the more liberal it gets. Guess who has the home invasion issues… Hint, it’s not the places that have 00 buck or something ready to say hello.

I’d say population density has more to do with it. The eastern US, generally, has more of it.

New Orleans isn’t “east”. And it has spots that rival Chicago’s (also not particularly “east”) crime-ridden hell-holes.

Vonsalza: Don’t think that there are too many pistol rounds that can go 2.5 miles.

First, it would be courteous to use the @ function so I know you’re addressing me.

Second, NRA cites a 9mm as being capable of flying 1.5 miles and you yourself said they occasionally fire rifles up there. I think a .308 can travel roughly 4 miles.

The loud reports of these weapons provide an important warning to any nearby that “hot, hypersonic lead is flying about - so be careful.”

You would be amazed at how many people don’t “hear” a gunshot, even when it should be brutally obvious what it is.

No I wouldn’t. But on the flip side, every time I’ve ever heard a rifle report in public, most everyone around immediately raised their heads, looking around with heightened awareness.
“Was that a gunshot???”

Anecdotes, right?

The Black Talon must not be the end-all-be all if it needed improvement.

???

You’re reaching. I never said it was the “end-all-be-all”. Only that it was banned and that I (and several members of law enforcement) understand why and agree.

I guess it’s less evil because it’s not black (just like non-black rifles)?

More reaching…

Where did I label it as evil?

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

“No one needs a 30 round mag”

People in a feud, 7 guys kick in a door, pretending to be cops, homeowners sling lead and win. Granted I’m sure all involved were less than model citizens but this still warms my heart.

Deputies: 30 rounds fired from AR-15 in deadly Florida home invasion

Three men say they were asleep inside a mobile home in Glen St. Mary about 4 a.m. Sunday when they heard a voice outside yell “Sheriff’s Office!” before the front door burst open.

www.news4jax.com

 

[Vonsalza]

“No one needs a 30 round mag”

The better declaration is:
“The societal benefits of 30 round mags being available do not outweigh the societal ills they enable”.

And as I’ve said repeatedly, armed home invasions DO happen.

They’re just insanely rare. Like lightening-strike and bear-mauling rare.

Most of the time, an armed home invader isn’t going to yell “sheriffs office” before they kick in the door.
Why surrender the element of surprise?

That said, I’ll admit that if you live in a Florida trailer park, your probability of seeing all kinds of irregular, exciting things is probably a little higher.

 

[Vonsalza]

People in a feud, 7 guys kick in a door,

Article seems to indicate just 1 person kicked in a door.

So no, don’t think a 30 round mag was necessary here either.

See the video where the cop in Arizona killed the man trying to surrender? 1 shot.

Note: Error. It may have been 3 shots.

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

There’s been 5 people charged so at least 5 were part of the home invasion. Presumably the other 2 were in a vehicle.

 

[Vonsalza]

There’s been 5 people charged so at least 5 were part of the home invasion. Presumably the other 2 were in a vehicle.

So then, you should shoot them too?

Do you know that would probably land you in jail also?

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

Not in Kentucky it wouldn’t.

ETA: the shots fired at the 5 wouldn’t.

The two in the car obviously are not valid targets

 

[Vonsalza]

Not in Kentucky it wouldn’t.

I live in KY and would pretty vigorously disagree with you.

If you shoot anyone not actively threatening your safety and it can be somewhat proven, you’ve a real shot at jail time.

Which is a good thing.

 

[upant]

And as I’ve said repeatedly, armed home invasions DO happen.

They’re just insanely rare. Like lightening-strike and bear-mauling rare.

only because of the current gun laws. england is proof when the guns are gone hot burglaries become normal. the perp can have the victim take them right to their valuables.

“The societal benefits of 30 round mags being available do not outweigh the societal ills they enable”.

how fast can you swap mags? this is a feel-good law.

 

[Vonsalza]

only because of the current gun laws. england is proof when the guns are gone hot burglaries become normal. the perp can have the victim take them right to their valuables.

I’m not sure this is 100% true.

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how fast can you swap mags? this is a feel-good law.

Oh, you know silly, liberal me.

I wouldn’t mind banning detachable mags all together.

 

[upant]

I’m not sure this is 100% true.

the discussion is hot burglary not the trend of burglaries.

I wouldn’t mind banning detachable mags all together.

remember, …incremental

ban the 30’s first and when that doesn’t work, than ban all detachable ones.

it is the agenda

 

[Theo520]

the discussion is hot burglary not the trend of burglaries.

The graphs seems to show the law changes had no discernable impact. The trend that preceded the laws continued with minor noise variation from year to year. There was no marked drop after each change.

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

See my edit

 

[Vonsalza]

upant:

the discussion is hot burglary not the trend of burglaries.

The graphs seems to show the law changes had no discernable impact. The trend that preceded the laws continued with minor noise variation from year to year. There was no marked drop after each change.

I’ve had college stats too.
We simply need more data. Who’s to say the graph wasn’t going to level out without the ban?

As a fun suggestion, there are a lot of folks who are convinced that the crime drops in the 90s are a direct result of legal, available abortion.

The would-be low-class criminals of the 90s were, by and large, killed by their mothers 20 years earlier en utero.

 

[Theo520]

I’ve had college stats too.

We simply need more data. Who’s to say the graph wasn’t going to level out without the ban?

The chart clearly doesn’t show an abrupt shift with the new laws, it doesn’t support showing the very time specific changes had an impact.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

I’ve had college stats too.

We simply need more data. Who’s to say the graph wasn’t going to level out without the ban?

The chart clearly doesn’t show an abrupt shift with the new laws, it doesn’t support showing the very time specific changes had an impact.

Why would the chart need to show abrupt shifts?

Even in charts related to abortion, there was a bit of a time lag where women who wanted them still didn’t get them because they used to be illegal. To the women, they still “felt” illegal.

I’m not a full blown Keynesian, but I do think all “markets” are sticky. Abrupt dynamics are more rare.

 

[jgaw1234]

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That’s what this guy said. Lol