Gun violence - lest we forget

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Here is a list of the deadliest mass shootings in modern US history (over the last 12 years).

Events:
58 killed - October 1, 2017 - In Las Vegas, 64-year-old Stephen Paddock of Mesquite, Nevada, sprays gunfire on a crowd of 22,000 concertgoers from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino, killing 58 people and injuring almost 700. Witnesses say the gunshots last between 10 and 15 minutes. Officers breach Paddock’s hotel room to find him dead. Authorities believe Paddock killed himself and that he acted alone.

49 killed - June 12, 2016 - Omar Saddiqui Mateen, 29, opens fire inside Pulse, a gay nightclub, in Orlando. At least 49 people are killed and more than 50 are injured. Police shoot and kill Mateen during an operation to free hostages officials say he was holding at the club.

32 killed - April 16, 2007 - Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia. A gunman, 23-year-old student Seung-Hui Cho, goes on a shooting spree killing 32 people in two locations and wounding an undetermined number of others on campus. The shooter dies by suicide.

27 killed - December 14, 2012 - Sandy Hook Elementary School - Newtown, Connecticut. Adam Lanza, 20, guns down 20 children, ages six and seven, and six adults, school staff and faculty, before turning the gun on himself. Investigating police later find Nancy Lanza, Adam’s mother, dead from a gunshot wound.

25 and an unborn child killed - November 5, 2017 - A gunman opens fire on a small church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, killing 25 people and an unborn child and wounding 20 others. The shooter, identified by two law enforcement sources as Devin Patrick Kelley, is found dead after a brief chase, but it’s unclear if it was self-inflicted.

22 killed - August 3, 2019 - In El Paso, Texas 22 people are killed after a mass shooting at a Walmart store in a case that’s being treated as domestic terrorism. Police say they found an anti-immigrant document espousing white nationalist and racist views, which they believe was written by the suspect, 21-year-old Patrick Crusius. He may face hate crime charges in addition to capital murder charges.
 
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In addition to these deadliest mass murders using guns, there are so many others: for example, the killing of nine African Americans by a 21-year-old White Supremacist in a Charleston church comes immediately to mind.

To me, the turning point was already reached in the Sandy Hook Elementary School killings. Although all of the murders are terrible, this one touched me the most because of the 20 innocent children who were gunned down. As I have stated before, if nothing was done after this tragic event, we have little hope of making much progress with regard to more effective gun control and regulation. Of course guns are not the only problem; but that old saw which Pres. Trump is still using, namely, that guns don’t kill people, people do, is such faulty logic, and I think even he knows it. Unfortunately, our leaders (Congress) have made their decision: that is, they value the status quo regarding gun ownership and regulation, because of pure partisanship involving catering to the NRA and its supporters and to the gun culture found in parts of America, more than they do the safety and security of the American people. It is a choice all of us have to abide by, willingly or not.
 
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Mass shootings are intolerable and need to be fully dealt with.

At the same time, we should not lose site that it is not a big percentage of total murders or of those who die of fentanyl/heroin/other drug overdoses every year.
 
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What is the means generally used by the “other murders,” if not also guns?

A better argument might be that so long as we live in a culture of death, murder and suicide (by means of drugs but also guns, hanging, and other methods) will persist. To which I would respond, so are we totally helpless then until such time as we change the existing culture? Besides, is not the proliferation of guns part of that culture of death?
 
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Yet, we all forget the weekly killings in Chicago. When will we even talk about these killings.

Is it because they don’t use the dreaded AR?
 
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Until you deal with the “Why” this issue will not be resolved. We have to solve the moral problem in this country and it is not gun ownership.
 
upant said:
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LeafByNiggle:
Thank you for that perfect illustration of whataboutism
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You don’t consider the gun deaths in Chicago gun violence? It is one continuous mass shooting
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You must think there is something different about them or else you would not have opined that no one will remember them. It is still whataboutism. In fact, to the extent that YourNameHere may have been listing those shootings to inspire action to prevent them, your citation of Chicago homicides only strengthens YourNameHere’s point. Perhaps different kinds of shootings (one-on-one vs. mass shootings) require slightly different response. Addressing one kind should not preclude addressing the other kind as well. In fact, there are probably many measures that we could take that would address both kinds at once. Complaining when one type of shooting gets attention could be seen as an attempt to thwart any and all measures of this sort.
 
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While sad, I think there’s an over reaction to mass shootings starting to take place. An over reaction similar to the past 9/11 reaction.

The number of people murdered in mass shootings are way lower than other gun violence. I’m thinking that we are not keeping this in perspective.
 
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Ok, all of you gun enthusiasts, come forward and present your suggested solution. How to slow down or prevent the next event? Obviously there is no “silver bullet” (pun intended) to solve this problem in one fell swoop. It might take years or even longer. What can you suggest? And please get down to the details.

Start with the concept that your activities of self-protection, hunting and target practice are to be preserved.
 
Thinker_Doer said:
Ok, all of you gun enthusiasts, come forward and present your suggested solution. How to slow down or prevent the next event? Obviously there is no “ silver bullet ” (pun intended) to solve this problem in one fell swoop. It might take years or even longer. What can you suggest? And please get down to the details.

Start with the concept that your activities of self-protection, hunting and target practice are to be preserved.
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Why? Why don’t you tell us what will slow down these killings in Chicago? Baltimore? Detroit? All places run by Democrats and a lot more murders. You think we should give in to gun legislation when it hasn’t worked in these places?

www.nytimes.com

Five Killed in One Day of Shootings in New York City (Published 2019)

The shootings come amid a slight increase in gun violence, echoing an earlier era when multiple deadly shootings in one day were common.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

This is just this week.

By the way, some gun restrictions are fine with me but the above still applies. I don’t think people need an arsenal but at the same time, gun laws have worked too well.
 
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First I would look about to before these shooting started and see what has changed? I would research why someone is so willing to die in order to murder others.

Why should I have to justify a right? We have had the right since the start of this country and we didnt have people going around committing mass murder. This issue here isnt my rights but why are people doing this to other people. Solve that and you solve the problem. Your post " activities of self-protection, hunting and target practice are to be preserved." is missing the point.
 
HerCrazierHalf said:
While sad, I think there’s an over reaction to mass shootings starting to take place. An over reaction similar to the past 9/11 reaction.

The number of people murdered in mass shootings are way lower than other gun violence. I’m thinking that we are not keeping this in perspective.
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It is true that the number of deaths in mass shootings is tiny compared to overall deaths. However it is also true that the general public, for better or worse, is much more moved to action by spectacular events than by the commonplace. And if this movement also happens to have a beneficial effect on overall gun deaths too, I think it is understandable that people will use spectacular events like this to accomplish those goals.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
A better argument might be that so long as we live in a culture of death, murder and suicide (by means of drugs but also guns, hanging, and other methods) will persist. To which I would respond, so are we totally helpless then until such time as we change the existing culture? Besides, is not the proliferation of guns part of that culture of death?
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Before we go taking away the guns of the law-abiding (which is all that the confiscation so desired by the left would do) perhaps we could consider no longer advertising the “thrill” of it to the narcissistic sociopaths who actually commit these killings. With our endless media coverage, we exactly tell them they will achieve dominance over the terrified victims, if only momentarily, and the fame they think they deserve that has eluded them in life.

Does nobody realize that’s what we’re doing as surely as auto advertising persuades people to buy autos?
 
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Ridgerunner said:
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meltzerboy2:
A better argument might be that so long as we live in a culture of death, murder and suicide (by means of drugs but also guns, hanging, and other methods) will persist. To which I would respond, so are we totally helpless then until such time as we change the existing culture? Besides, is not the proliferation of guns part of that culture of death?
Click to expand...
Before we go taking away the guns of the law-abiding (which is all that the confiscation so desired by the left would do) perhaps we could consider no longer advertising the “thrill” of it to the narcissistic sociopaths who actually commit these killings…
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I think that is an admirable goal. I think some news organizations have already taken steps to reduce the sensationalism of their reporting of mass shootings, by things like not mentioning the shooter by name too much or at all. Beyond voluntary compliance like this, I don’t know that there is much more we can do to limit publicity without seriously abridging freedom of speech and the public’s right to know.
 
I do care. The issue is that people are willing to murder other people. I want to know the Why. The how is gun, cars, knives, fire, lots of different how’s. Columbine Solving the Why will solve the how, solving the how can not be done. We have had the right to own arms since the start of this country. But we havent had people involved in mass shootings since the start of the country. Why? We have trouble people that need help, to ignore this fact will allow the continuation of these murders.

I am asking the right question? You are wanting to frame this as a gun vs no gun solution.

I just read the article " Can We Prevent Mass Shootings By Preventing Suicide?" Is there a connection between suicide and mass murder?
 
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