Gun violence - lest we forget

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JonNC:
None of these, tragic as they are, come close to Wounded Knee, a mass shooting that killed 250 to 300 Lakota men, women, and children, carried out by the government.
Doesn’t that demonstrate the uselessness of being armed against a government though? The Lakota people already had arms and they were useless against the might of the government arms. And they were more of a ‘regulated militia’ than todays random American.
Actually, they didn’t have enough arms.
But more importantly, it shows that even a wonderful form of government such as ours is run by human beings.
 
While sad, I think there’s an over reaction to mass shootings starting to take place. An over reaction similar to the past 9/11 reaction.

The number of people murdered in mass shootings are way lower than other gun violence. I’m thinking that we are not keeping this in perspective.
The reason that ‘terrorism’ is so powerful is that it is unexplainable and without warning. It’s a phenomenon that erodes the sense of security at the very core of peoples being. That’s why it is such a big issue. It means that society that thrives in an atmosphere of peace, is oppressed by the spectre of the next random massacre. It equates to living in a constant state of cold war. Not healthy.
 
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Emeraldlady:
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JonNC:
None of these, tragic as they are, come close to Wounded Knee, a mass shooting that killed 250 to 300 Lakota men, women, and children, carried out by the government.
Doesn’t that demonstrate the uselessness of being armed against a government though? The Lakota people already had arms and they were useless against the might of the government arms. And they were more of a ‘regulated militia’ than todays random American.
Actually, they didn’t have enough arms.
Can you not see the silliness of this comment? How many arms would a tribe need to match the governments cache?
But more importantly, it shows that even a wonderful form of government such as ours is run by human beings
Human beings who are always going to be in charge of more weapons of war than little tribes.

It’s just crazy logic.
 
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Rhubarb:
I provided the link already.
I did not see a story on the website where it said people were dying in rural gop controlled states. I just saw state averages, which isn’t the same thing. the numbers are diluted.
Strict background checks. Statistics show it works.
we have background checks

explain to me how a background check works on the black market? like what happens in the gun show parking lots.
Background check laws differ in different states. Statistics show that in states that strengthened their background checks, gun deaths went down. And states that relaxed those checks saw gun deaths go up. I don’t have to explain how it works. That fact that is works is reason enough.
They let’s release about half of the 2 million we currently have locked up before we add any more to the prison population.
what is their crime? would you release them to offend again?
You were the one who said we probably have too many people locked up for poor reasons. So it should be easy to find a million or so that do not need to be incarcerated. But until that is corrected, I am suspicious of any plan that says we need to lock up more people.
Zero tolerance on broken windows does not get murders off the street.
sure it does, if they are caught up in the sweep. what is your suggestion? leave them on the street until they hurt their fellow citizen?
As I said, that method has been tried, and the effectiveness of that method was not shown to be extremely effective in reducing more serious crime. But it was shown to be effective in fostering distrust of police within the community. And good community relations is essential for effective policing.
 
The reason that ‘terrorism’ is so powerful is that it is explainable and without warning. It’s a phenomenon that erodes the sense of security at the very core of peoples being. That’s why it is such a big issue. It means that society that thrives in an atmosphere of peace, is oppressed by the spectre of the next random massacre. It equates to living in a constant state of cold war. Not healthy
This is an odd societal flaw I suppose. As a diabetic I suppose I’ve come to terms with my mortality in a way others have yet to. Death is often waiting around the corner and to some extent is just background noise to the melody of life.

For me, death is always around the corner, playing both the long and short game waiting for me to make a mistake. On one hand is the risk of mismanaging and losing body parts and decades off my lifespan. On the other is improperly balancing food vs activity vs meds with the real possibilityyou’ll start to die in hours.

So given the number of people with an otherwise deadly condition or whom engaging in potentially deadly activities (an travel faster than 10 mph, eating solid food, etc) the way we view danger as a society is of to me.
 
To me, the turning point was already reached in the Sandy Hook Elementary School killings. Although all of the murders are terrible, this one touched me the most because of the 20 innocent children who were gunned down.
I forget if it was Sandy Hook or one that followed shortly after, but I remember then-President Obama giving a speech that had a tone of absolute defeat. At the very least, I think the aftermath of Sandy Hook was part of the reason, since we saw the lengths many would go to to cling onto their guns.
Yet, we all forget the weekly killings in Chicago. When will we even talk about these killings.
Even as someone who doesn’t live in Chicago, I still see semi-frequent updates on how X number of people were shot over a given weekend. Last year or the year before was particularly bad, as there were some records set.

Besides that, it can be very easy to see the violence in Chicago as a purely Chicago-area or big-city problem. When you have three mass shootings across two weekends and spread across the country (Gilroy, California; El Paso, Texas; and Dayton, Ohio), then the national-level problem is much clearer.
 
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Emeraldlady:
The reason that ‘terrorism’ is so powerful is that it is explainable and without warning. It’s a phenomenon that erodes the sense of security at the very core of peoples being. That’s why it is such a big issue. It means that society that thrives in an atmosphere of peace, is oppressed by the spectre of the next random massacre. It equates to living in a constant state of cold war. Not healthy
This is an odd societal flaw I suppose. As a diabetic I suppose I’ve come to terms with my mortality in a way others have yet to. Death is often waiting around the corner and to some extent is just background noise to the melody of life.

For me, death is always around the corner, playing both the long and short game waiting for me to make a mistake. On one hand is the risk of mismanaging and losing body parts and decades off my lifespan. On the other is improperly balancing food vs activity vs meds with the real possibilityyou’ll start to die in hours.

So given the number of people with an otherwise deadly condition or whom engaging in potentially deadly activities (an travel faster than 10 mph, eating solid food, etc) the way we view danger as a society is of to me.
Terrorism doesn’t really equate to conditions that can be explained by genetics or lifestyle choices. There exists no malicious force of intent to kill random strangers for the sole purpose of destroying peace, freedom and security involved. Terrorism profoundly affects every person in a society whether they realise it or not. Their opinions, choices, decisions and values change in dramatic ways as they do in theatres of war. There’s a huge difference in societies that live in an environment of peace to those who live in an environment of war.
 
Terrible as the Wounded Knee Massacre was, how many times did this kind of gun violence by the government happen since 1890? And how many times have the mass shootings by individuals continued to happen in more recent years? Therefore, which poses a bigger threat in our present-day society?
 
Terrible as the Wounded Knee Massacre was, how many times did this kind of gun violence by the government happen since 1890? And how many times have the mass shootings by individuals continued to happen in more recent years? Therefore, which poses a bigger threat in our present-day society?
The very fact that the framers of the American constitution considered it such a significant concern that they felt it necessary to establish protection of the right to arms.
The issue is how many times it happened at all. Tens of millions of civilians in the twentieth century.
 
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Emeraldlady:
Can you not see the silliness of this comment? How many arms would a tribe need to match the governments cache?
You can make the case for only government having guns, but the tens of millions of civilians killed by governments over the last century is s testimony against it.
The many many more who have not been killed because of governments keeping order is testimony for it.
 
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There is no solution. You are not going to limit gun rights. You are not going to be able to collect people guns. I am not turning mine over no matter what law you pass. We are not going to go back to the 1950’s families.
 
Terrible as the Wounded Knee Massacre was, how many times did this kind of gun violence by the government happen since 1890? And how many times have the mass shootings by individuals continued to happen in more recent years? Therefore, which poses a bigger threat in our present-day society?
Contrary to popular belief, Indians in North America were almost always armed as well as the settlers or the army; and sometimes better, as with Custer’s defeat and demise. Just to clarify. 🙂

It is true, though, that on balance governments have killed a lot more people, even their own people, than sociopathic shooters have.
 
There is no solution. You are not going to limit gun rights. You are not going to be able to collect people guns. I am not turning mine over no matter what law you pass. We are not going to go back to the 1950’s families.
Even if there would be a Constitutional Amendment? Your side keeps on harping about the rights declared in the Constitution as if that would be the final word. But the Constitution can be changed, and hopefully it will be if enough people will say “enough of this!!!”. We don’t need the blood of our children on the streets.

Or even the blood of the drug dealers. (A simple solution for drug related gang violence) is to decriminalize the usage of these substances. If someone wishes to use them, it is their business. After all these are simple and cheap substances. The problem is not the drug use, the problem is the prohibition. Just like when the alcohol prohibition was enacted, and then overthrown.

However technology “rulez”. Eventually we can develop a new technology to discover the intent to perform murders or rapes… even before they would be put into practice. (“Terminal man” by Michael Crichton?) And then it will be possible to perform a quick “brain washing” and erase the intent. I wonder what will your reaction be to that technological advancement. 🙂 Will you scream: “But I want to kill! I want to rape!”
 
Justifiable equivalence. Trying to change the focus of what happened, by saying it happens everywhere.
No killing is right.
But people being murdered by a guy who drove from Dallas to El Paso just to shoot people is a much bigger story. Unbridled hate combined with a weapon created to maximize deaths.
 
Justifiable equivalence. Trying to change the focus of what happened, by saying it happens everywhere.
No killing is right.
But people being murdered by a guy who drove from Dallas to El Paso just to shoot people is a much bigger story. Unbridled hate combined with a weapon created to maximize deaths.
No, you want feel-good laws instead of addressing the root cause. The AR isn’t the issue. The reality is, it doesn’t kill that many people. What is being done to address the root cause?
 
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