Hail, Holy Queen Prayer - difficulty as new Catholic

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dronald said:
Yes, I assume it would be tiring if others and myself were doing so. I can’t speak for others, but I did no such thing.

I’m responding to the claim that love is infinite, therefore one cannot measure loving God more than anyone else, because we love everyone infinitely. I believe one must love God more than anyone or anything else.

It’s been brought up to me once in another thread and again in this thread. Here’s one of the posts I was responding to in case you haven’t been reading the entire thread:
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I guess I’m not seeing anywhere in his post where he’s suggesting we love anyone more than God, or even equal to God…
 
ptisme said:
I guess I’m not seeing anywhere in his post where he’s suggesting we love anyone more than God, or even equal to God…
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Let’s put it this way. Calling Jesus my hope, my gracious advocate, my King, etc I reserve for Jesus. I don’t and can’t say similar things about Mary because all Glory belongs to Him in my view.

I’m not judging Catholics by saying that this is how I feel with the words that I use, rather this is only how I feel and others when they look at certain prayers to Mary.
 
dronald said:
Let’s put it this way. Calling Jesus my hope, my gracious advocate, my King, etc I reserve for Jesus. I don’t and can’t say similar things about Mary because all Glory belongs to Him in my view.

I’m not judging Catholics by saying that this is how I feel with the words that I use, rather this is only how I feel and others when they look at certain prayers to Mary.
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I think the gentleman in post number 11 did an excellent job of putting the prayer in perspective. I know when I’ve said that prayer during the rosary I certainly didn’t feel I was putting her ahead of Jesus. Mary is a creature created by God and any glory she has is the direct result of being the mother of God. IOW, Mary literally is nothing without Jesus. I think many times Protestants and Catholics take the same words and attach different meanings to them. Hopefully continued dialog like this can change matters. God Bless, PT
 
If you have trouble with “Hail, Holy Queen,” you must have a lot of trouble reading the Psalms in historical context. I mean, there’s God saying, “Thou art my son, today I have begotten thee” to David. King David. “Staring at ladies in bathtubs” David is being called “my son” by God, which is a title I usually think of as reserved to Jesus.

But then, God also calls us His daughters and sons, so it’s a bit late for us to take alarm at the “presumptuous” language of the Psalms!
 
dronald said:
Let’s put it this way. Calling Jesus my hope, my gracious advocate, my King, etc I reserve for Jesus. I don’t and can’t say similar things about Mary because all Glory belongs to Him in my view.

I’m not judging Catholics by saying that this is how I feel with the words that I use, rather this is only how I feel and others when they look at certain prayers to Mary.
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dronald, I assume you also agree all glory, honor, and thanks go to God. 👍 Do you not thank individuals that offer prayers for you, or that do any simple good deed for you or your family? 🤷

Peace!!!
 
dronald said:
Let’s put it this way. Calling Jesus my hope, my gracious advocate, my King, etc I reserve for Jesus.
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Well, fair enough: Jesus is your king. Yet, we’re calling Mary ‘queen’, not ‘king.’ You recall, don’t you, that the queen – in the context of the Davidic kingdom – is the king’s mother, right? So… if you call Jesus your king, then Mary is your queen! 😉
 
Mintaka said:
If you have trouble with “Hail, Holy Queen,” you must have a lot of trouble reading the Psalms in historical context. I mean, there’s God saying, “Thou art my son, today I have begotten thee” to David. King David. “Staring at ladies in bathtubs” David is being called “my son” by God, which is a title I usually think of as reserved to Jesus.

But then, God also calls us His daughters and sons, so it’s a bit late for us to take alarm at the “presumptuous” language of the Psalms!
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I have no idea where you’re drawing the comparison from. “This day I have begotten you” is even quoted in the Gospels in a way to point to Jesus. I’m completely missing your point.
 
adf417 said:
dronald, I assume you also agree all glory, honor, and thanks go to God. 👍 Do you not thank individuals that offer prayers for you, or that do any simple good deed for you or your family? 🤷

Peace!!!
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I could be quite alright with thanking Mary if I believed I could. The idea has never bothered me.
 
Gorgias said:
Well, fair enough: Jesus is your king. Yet, we’re calling Mary ‘queen’, not ‘king.’ You recall, don’t you, that the queen – in the context of the Davidic kingdom – is the king’s mother, right? So… if you call Jesus your king, then Mary is your queen! 😉
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Yes, but Jesus is God. He is a King because of all He is; while Mary is a person. Jesus is King in the utmost Spiritual and physical sense. He is Lord of Lords, King of Kings, high and lifted up, worthy of worship and glory. I can’t call Mary “queen” in any way as it compares to Jesus.
 
dronald said:
Yes, but Jesus is God. He is a King because of all He is; while Mary is a person. Jesus is King in the utmost Spiritual and physical sense. He is Lord of Lords, King of Kings, high and lifted up, worthy of worship and glory. I can’t call Mary “queen” in any way as it compares to Jesus.
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Calling Mary ‘queen’ doesn’t imply she is Jesus’ equal… just His mother – the ‘Queen Mother’, in exactly the way a Davidic king has a queen. The queen, in the Davidic line, was not equal in power to her son the king. No one here is suggesting that, by calling Mary ‘queen’, we’re putting her on a par with Jesus. That seems to be an idea that you yourself are constructing. (Or, more likely, it’s the connotation of ‘queenship’ from medieval Europe that you’re bringing to mind. Mary isn’t a queen in that mold, but only in terms of the line of David.)
 
dronald said:
Yes, but Jesus is God. He is a King because of all He is; while Mary is a person. Jesus is King in the utmost Spiritual and physical sense. He is Lord of Lords, King of Kings, high and lifted up, worthy of worship and glory. I can’t call Mary “queen” in any way as it compares to Jesus.
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Everything you said regarding Jesus is true. But as well as being God, he’s man. Mary is his mother. We honor her as a human and the greatest of saints and the Queen of Heaven. The accolades she receives are because of Jesus and everything about her draws us to her Son.
 
Gorgias said:
Calling Mary ‘queen’ doesn’t imply she is Jesus’ equal… just His mother – the ‘Queen Mother’, in exactly the way a Davidic king has a queen. The queen, in the Davidic line, was not equal in power to her son the king. No one here is suggesting that, by calling Mary ‘queen’, we’re putting her on a par with Jesus. That seems to be an idea that you yourself are constructing. (Or, more likely, it’s the connotation of ‘queenship’ from medieval Europe that you’re bringing to mind. Mary isn’t a queen in that mold, but only in terms of the line of David.)
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This is 100 percent spot on!👍 nearly all the Davidic Kings were introduced in association with their mothers: The royal kings of Israel and the House of David had many wives and no single wife of the king had the influence that his mother enjoyed as the chief confidant of her son.
 
dronald said:
I could be quite alright with thanking Mary if I believed I could. The idea has never bothered me.
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And it shouldn’t bother you…as long as you know all thanks, glory, honor, and HOPE ultimately go to God. 😉

Peace!!!
 
Gorgias said:
Calling Mary ‘queen’ doesn’t imply she is Jesus’ equal… just His mother – the ‘Queen Mother’, in exactly the way a Davidic king has a queen. The queen, in the Davidic line, was not equal in power to her son the king. No one here is suggesting that, by calling Mary ‘queen’, we’re putting her on a par with Jesus. That seems to be an idea that you yourself are constructing. (Or, more likely, it’s the connotation of ‘queenship’ from medieval Europe that you’re bringing to mind. Mary isn’t a queen in that mold, but only in terms of the line of David.)
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That’s fine if you believe that, but why is this a popular prayer? Does everyone simply understand it the way you do? Our sweetness, our hope, most gracious advocate, give us mercy…?

I feel like when I have issues with some practices the answers are simply “It’s no big deal, we don’t mean it like that she’s just a queen because Jesus is a king.” And yet the words “to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears.” Just seems extremely odd to me.

This is a big prayer, and it’s important to Catholics no? It to me, on the surface, seems much deeper than “Just a Queen because David.” And again, I don’t accuse Catholics of any wrongdoing, but to be redundant I just couldn’t do it.
 
ptisme said:
Everything you said regarding Jesus is true. But as well as being God, he’s man. Mary is his mother. We honor her as a human and the greatest of saints and the Queen of Heaven. The accolades she receives are because of Jesus and everything about her draws us to her Son.
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But she’s His mother in a physical sense. Why honor her as a high godly being that is more powerful than any Saint? We know she was wonderful, and is in Heaven… But she’s creation. When I honor God it’s with the very intense words of Worship that are used in prayers to Mary.

Although, “Dear Mary please pray for me, a sinner” I would have no issue with. But why prelude it with what sounds like worship to me, but I’m told is not by Catholics. And I believe them as I cannot read their hearts.
 
dronald said:
But she’s His mother in a physical sense. Why honor her as a high godly being that is more powerful than any Saint? We know she was wonderful, and is in Heaven… But she’s creation. When I honor God it’s with the very intense words of Worship that are used in prayers to Mary.

Although, “Dear Mary please pray for me, a sinner” I would have no issue with. But why prelude it with what sounds like worship to me, but I’m told is not by Catholics. And I believe them as I cannot read their hearts.
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Mary is not God. but she is Jesus’ Mother and is honored as the Queen of Heaven and Ark of the New Covenant. What did you think of the clip
 
ptisme said:
Mary is not God. but she is Jesus’ Mother and is honored as the Queen of Heaven and Ark of the New Covenant. What did you think of the clip
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I can’t watch it as I’m on my phone right now. But I think I’ve seen it.
 
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