Hail Holy Queen......

[ahimsaman72]

MaggieOH:

The response did not answer my question. I ask again, how do you know that the commentaries that you are reading are free from bias?

Maggie

Those commentaries would include people who wrote them and who could possibly be biased. To deny this reality is to deny the truth. In the political realm, for example, Democrats will tell you the same document says “X” while Republicans tell you the document says “Y”. How is this so? As long as we claim to be objective, we cease to truly understand. The document really says “Z” it’s just that both parties are so interested in getting their own point across they totally miss it.

Peace…

 

[ahimsaman72]

MaggieOH:

The reason that you cannot see what is happening in the Scripture is that you are thinking in terms of Jesus ruling in an earthly kingdom, and therefore you are applying the false dichotomy of either/or. That is why you cannot see what is plain as the nose on your face.

Maggie

A poster recently pointed out to me the “law of contradiction”. “X” cannot be both “X” and “Y” at the same time. It is either “X” or it is “Y”. Curious as to your reaction to this.

Peace…

 

[mercygate]

ahimsaman72:

Truth is in the eye of the beholder.

I can’t believe you said that.

 

[johnq]

ahimsaman72:

Truth is in the eye of the beholder.

ahimsaman72 :tiphat:

I was wandering where is that in scripture?

Catholics believe Jesus is truth. What about you?

John 14:

6] Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

God

 

[Wildgraywolf]

Scripture tells us that the Messiah would be a descendant of King David, clearly indicating a blood relationship.

If Mary is a descendant of David then she would be of royal blood.

If Jesus then is the Messiah then he must also be a blood descendant of David.

Jesus therefore inherited the royal blood of David through his mother Mary.

Consider this with the revelation story and the title Queen of Heaven seems logical and reasonable does it not?

 

[ahimsaman72]

mercygate:

I can’t believe you said that.

Mercy - even on a superficial level this is true. I practice the Baptist faith on Sunday. You practice the Catholic faith on Sunday. This is because I see the Baptist denomination as true and you see the Catholic denomination as true.

We are the beholders. We see truth through our own eyes. I’m not saying there is no concrete absolute truth. I’m saying by the time that truth reaches us we mess it up and see things differently than they truly are.

Are you disappointed in me? I hope not.

Peace…

 

[ahimsaman72]

johnq:

ahimsaman72 :tiphat:

I was wandering where is that in scripture?

Catholics believe Jesus is truth. What about you?

John 14:

6] Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

God

We see objective truth subjectively - does that make sense? Objective truth is there. We look at that truth subjectively through our biased eyes and internal flaws. It doesn’t change the objective truth. The objective truth is well - objective.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

Peace…

 

[Philthy]

Fidelis:

Someone on this forum gave the best answer I ever heard. I tried to find the original thread but failed.The best way is to think of it this way: Since Jesus is ultimately our life, our sweetness and our hope, and Mary is his Mother, we can think of Mary as

Mother of mercy,
(Mother of) our life,
(Mother of) our sweetness and
(Mother of) our hope.

I think I gave that answer! Then someone else corrected me by saying that in the Latin those attributes are directed toward Mary although he still felt there was nothing “wrong” with the prayer. I still prefer to think of it as above.

Phil

 

[mayra_hart]

i wonder what happen to scott hahn and other fundamentalist that at one time they used to share the way fundamentalist think about mary. and now the are catholics defending mary. god bless all of you. santa maria madre de dios …amen

 

[thirsty4uolord]

Ahim;

Bless You And Christ Be With You !

Was not Mary chosen above all women of the world by God ?
Was Mary concieved by the Holy Spirt ?
Does Mary represent purity before God?
Did not the Apostles of Christ give unto Mary her praise ?
Should Mary have a place in your heart for prayer ?
If you qoute the Buddha but not see the purity and power of Mary are you sinful in your motives?
Of all Saints would you consider Mary most hated by the Devil ?
Kneel and pray before the Lord and give unto God what is his and the Church that which is hers.
:tiphat:

ahimsaman72:

Thanks for your insightful post. But, regrettably, you are using an Old Testament text and earthly reign of the Kingdom of Israel and applying it to the New Testament spiritual reign of Christ. Of course, Christ was the rightful King by his ancestry in His human body, but there is no language in the New Testament that speaks the theology you are espousing here.

Peace…

 

[Philthy]

ahimsaman72:

Here’s the text:

John 2

1. And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
2. And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
3. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
   4. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
4. His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
5. And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
6. Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.

He did indeed do it reluctantly or else He wouldn’t have asked the question to her. If verse 4 did not exist I would agree with you. However, it does exist and your position that He did it willingly is false. He did it because He wanted to please her.

In fact, I would say that she did not have Christ’s mission on her mind. He said, “What have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.”. He didn’t want to go public with His ministry at this time, yet she *forces *Him into making this decision which was contrary to His plan.

How can you justify your assertion based on the evidence that Christ questioned her about it before actually performing the miracle???

If I said to my child - clean your room - and my child then said, “what does my room being dirty have to do with you?” I’d be pretty upset. My child questioned my command. It is the same principle here in John.

Peace…

I diagree with your logic. The point remains the same:

Jesus acted on the basis of Mary’s request; his motive is irrelevent. The point is, he did it because SHE asked him to. EVEN though he questioned it, as you point out, he still did it BECAUSE SHE ASKED HIM TO. Your contention that He didn’t want to go public yet is apparently true, but I think this may be a case where “Mother knows best”. Scripture is on my side: He did perform the miracle. Although your intention was probably the opposite, you have succeeded in strengthening support for prayer through Mary rather than refuting (it in my opinion).

BTW, I 've read about 5 or 6 chapters from Living Buddha, Living Christ and, though interesting, I didn’t find it particularly memorable. I have to read the whole thing to be fair…

Phil

 

[Philthy]

ahimsaman72:

Of course she is the woman. Another poster brought up the “crown on her head”. Since we both agree that Revelation is full of symbolism, why do automatically assert that this crown on her head is literal and portrays her as “Queen of Heaven”.

I don’t see the correlation very clear here. His mother Mary gave birth to Him. Scripture states clearly that the Holy Spirit came upon her and Christ was conceived. How can her being chosen and used by God as a servant to carry out His will equate to “Queenship”?

Peace…

Some believe “the woman” in that verse is Israel, and the 12 stars are the 12 tribes…

Phil

 

[thirsty4uolord]

Hail Mary Full Of Grace , Blessed Is Thou Among Women , And Blessed Is The Fruit Of Thy Womb Jesus.

Holy Mary Mother Of God Pray For Us Sinners Now And At The Hour Of Our Death. Amen.

If Mary was concieved by the Holy Spirt is she not Holy ?
And did our Lord say all sins comitted and all blasphemys would be forgiven except those of the Holy Spirit that this is the unforgiven sin ?

 

[Philthy]

ahimsaman72:

It’s not hard to believe - it’s that there’s no evidence to support what you are claiming. You still - to date - have not shown anything but philosophical persuasion to validate your position. “It is because it makes sense” or “It is because I say it is” is not enough.

Some evidence, even biblical, for the Queenship of Mary has been presented to you - you reject it.

ahimsaman72:

My mindset is not as you say. God chose Mary to be the mother and caregiver for his son. Mary was favored among women. This is all Biblical and verifiable. She was obviously a special person.
How did she go from being “favored among women” to Queen status? That’s what I’m getting at here. And you haven’t shown me anything bridges that gap.

As has been pointed out, she’s the Mother of the King and, therefore, Queen. You may choose to reject this because “the law has been fulfilled” but that is not “proof” of a refutation.

ahimsaman72:

If any person in the line of David would have faltered. If they would have died without producing seed - you would have no King of Israel. Do you understand this? So, it is not only Mary that cooperated with God’s will. It was the many people through the ages that cooperated - knowingly or not.

God is this weak. The parents of a child bear the greatest responsibility for that child’s existence. According to your logic every ancestor of Christ deserves the credit for our salvation since Christ wouldn’t have been able to bear the cross without them allowing Him to be born in the first place.

If for instance, my parents would have never met, married and had me - my kids would not be alive today. My “seed” would not have gone forth. Perhaps I could’ve chosen the life of a monk and chose celibacy. My children in that respect could’ve never arrived here. There are many things that had to take place for God’s will to come to fruition.

Somehow, Mary was chosen. That was part of God’s plan. She consented - as did every other person that God called to faith - Moses, Elijah, Joseph, Abraham - on down the line. But you don’t see those men given the kind of status that Mary has. Why?

Peace…
Good points, but I think the obvious answer is because none of them are his mother! Are you forgetting He was a boy once?Although technically illogical for me to place greater affection toward my mother than my maternal grandmother since without my maternal grandmother I would have no mother, the REALITY IS THAT I LOVE MY MOTHER MORE. Just a fact. So either we’re all illogical in loving our mothers more than our other ancestors, or somehow your logic fails to account for a very easily observable reality. I’m leaning towards the latter.

phil

 

[thirsty4uolord]

thirsty4uolord:

Hail Mary Full Of Grace , The Lord Is With Thee ,Blessed Is Thou Among Women , And Blessed Is The Fruit Of Thy Womb Jesus.

Holy Mary Mother Of God Pray For Us Sinners Now And At The Hour Of Our Death. Amen.

If Mary was concieved by the Holy Spirt is she not Holy ?
And did our Lord say all sins comitted and all blasphemys would be forgiven except those of the Holy Spirit that this is the unforgiven sin ?

 

[MaggieOH]

ahimsaman72:

Mercy - even on a superficial level this is true. I practice the Baptist faith on Sunday. You practice the Catholic faith on Sunday. This is because I see the Baptist denomination as true and you see the Catholic denomination as true.

We are the beholders. We see truth through our own eyes. I’m not saying there is no concrete absolute truth. I’m saying by the time that truth reaches us we mess it up and see things differently than they truly are.

Are you disappointed in me? I hope not.

Peace…

AAHHH… you only practise your faith on a Sunday? What about the other days of the week?
I practise my faith every day, not just Sunday. Now tell me where is truth?

As for by the time it reaches us, well considering the way that some Baptist preachers synthesise the Gospel message, by picking and choosing their favourite verses, leaving out Books of the Bible that do not agree with them…no I wonder who has the fullness of Truth.

 

[thirsty4uolord]

I repeat

thirsty4uolord:

Ahim;

Bless You And Christ Be With You !

Was not Mary chosen above all women of the world by God ?
Was Mary concieved by the Holy Spirt ?
Does Mary represent purity before God?
Did not the Apostles of Christ give unto Mary her praise ?
Should Mary have a place in your heart for prayer ?
If you qoute the Buddha but not see the purity and power of Mary are you sinful in your motives?
Of all Saints would you consider Mary most hated by the Devil ?
Kneel and pray before the Lord and give unto God what is his and the Church that which is hers.
:tiphat:

 

[MaggieOH]

ahimsaman72:

We see objective truth subjectively - does that make sense? Objective truth is there. We look at that truth subjectively through our biased eyes and internal flaws. It doesn’t change the objective truth. The objective truth is well - objective.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

Peace…

Then if you see truth in a subjective way, that means that you are colouring the truth according to the biases of those that you read, whilst rejecting all the other evidence that is presented.

Subjective truth is not objective truth. For example, if you have a reading in a 12 step program and you have to make objective comments this means that you are not allowed to use personal examples. This is what happens when you take objective truth and read it in a subjective manner. The subjectiveness means that you allow your own biases to colour what you are reading so that you cannot truth in any other way than through the lens of another person.

Maggie

 

[MaggieOH]

ahimsaman72:

Those commentaries would include people who wrote them and who could possibly be biased. To deny this reality is to deny the truth. In the political realm, for example, Democrats will tell you the same document says “X” while Republicans tell you the document says “Y”. How is this so? As long as we claim to be objective, we cease to truly understand. The document really says “Z” it’s just that both parties are so interested in getting their own point across they totally miss it.

Peace…

Please answer the question without the dodge into politics. This is not what I was asking.

I am asking how you know that the commentaries that you are reading are either objective or subject to the biases of the writer.

BTW, I can point to some Protestant commentators who would put people like Matthew Henry or John MacArthur to shame. There are historians such as F.F. Bruce who do not colour Christian history, and you only have to turn to the Trail of Blood to see the kind of trash that is created when subjectivity takes over.

Maggie

 

[MaggieOH]

ahimsaman72:

Everyone is biased.

You did not answer my question: How do you know that the commentators are not biased in their opinion?

Maggie