Hail Holy Queen......

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He never said you worship her; he said go read about the people who worshiped a “queen of heaven”.
 
Christ's friend:
He never said you worship her; he said go read about the people who worshiped a “queen of heaven”.
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ok, i’ll bite: and i never said he said that - all i said was that catholics don’t worship mary.

seriously, though, catholics call mary Queen of Heaven…

but that is as may be: why do you think he (or she) made that observation about those passages in Jeremiah?
 
John Doran you are clever and you did “bite” lol. So read the chapters and tell me what you think.
 
Christ's friend:
John Doran you are clever and you did “bite” lol. So read the chapters and tell me what you think.
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but i did tell you what i think: i think that catholics don’t worship mary.
 
O I see. Alright but as far as I know Catholics do pray to Mary or at least did. And read in Jer what is said about praying to the “queen of heaven”. Also read what it says about if there really is a “queen of heaven” or if she is an idol.
 
Solo Christo:
Hey guys I thought it would be interesting to read about the people who were practicing pagaism and worshiping a “queen of heaven”.

Turn to Jeremiah chapters 7 and 44 and read about there idoloatry.

God bless, and keep posting this is a really interesting topic.
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There is no connection between the idolatrous worship of a pagan goddess in Jeremiah and the honor due the Mother of Christ, except the title, "Queen of Heaven,’ which is pure coincidence. Mary is not a goddess. She is honored as we honor our mother, not worshipped as God is worshipped.

Since Mary is undoubtedly in Heaven, and Jesus is “King of King and Lord of Lords,” Mary, his mother, is thus the Queen of Heaven. Earlier posters have drawn the parallel with Bathsheba, who is Queen because she is Solomon’s mother, not because she is the spouse of King David.
 
Christ's friend:
O I see. Alright but as far as I know Catholics do pray to Mary or at least did. And read in Jer what is said about praying to the “queen of heaven”. Also read what it says about if there really is a “queen of heaven” or if she is an idol.
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well, this is Jer 7:17-18

[17]…Do you not see what they are doing in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
[18] The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me to anger.

the obvious literal interpretation is that the only thing that god is condemning is the last one: pouring out drink offerings to other gods. right? i mean, surely you’re not suggesting that gathering wood and kindling fires is something that angers god. right?

this is Jer 44:15-18:

[15] Then all the men who knew that their wives had offered incense to other gods, and all the women who stood by, a great assembly, all the people who dwelt in Pathros in the land of Egypt, answered Jeremiah:
[16] “As for the word which you have spoken to us in the name of the LORD, we will not listen to you.
[17] But we will do everything that we have vowed, burn incense to the queen of heaven and pour out libations to her, as we did, both we and our fathers, our kings and our princes, in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; for then we had plenty of food, and prospered, and saw no evil.
[18] But since we left off burning incense to the queen of heaven and pouring out libations to her, we have lacked everything and have been consumed by the sword and by famine.”

taken literally, again, all that is being forbidden here is burning incense to the queen of heaven, and pouring out libations to her…

of course, that’s not the point: what is significant about the burning of incense and the pouring of libations is precisely that they are ***acts of worship ***offered to someone or something other than god…

and, again, catholics do not worship mary.

as you say, they do pray to her and ask for her, in turn, to beg her son for grace for themselves so that they might be pleasing to him and love him as they ought. but what’s wrong with that? surely i am not guilty of idolatry or any other wrong if i ask you, for example, to pray for me. am i?
 
Exuse me but the title of queen comes form king. Christ is the King of heaven and His queen is His bride; the church not Mary. And think about the King David example his mother was not physically dead or departed from the earth.

And you have to admit Jer 7 and 44 are a BIG “coincidence” with Catholic teachings. Read Scripture carefully not traditions devoloped overtime.
 
the obvious literal interpretation is that the only thing that god is condemning is the last one: pouring out drink offerings to other gods. right? i mean, surely you’re not suggesting that gathering wood and kindling fires is something that angers god. right?
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That was worship to her, in other words idolatry and last time I checked God is Jealous and hates that sin.
 
Asking for peoples prays is not a sin but intern is encouraged. Praying to someone was an act of worship at least the God of Jeramiah saw it that way. All those acts are grouped together as worship to the queen of heaven and were all considered idolatry.
 
And Jer 7 and 44 show that there is no queen of heaven to worship and that she is a false god made up by man as tradition and in idolatry.
 
Christ's friend:
Exuse me but the title of queen comes form king. Christ is the King of heaven and His queen is His bride; the church not Mary. And think about the King David example his mother was not physically dead or departed from the earth.

And you have to admit Jer 7 and 44 are a BIG “coincidence” with Catholic teachings. Read Scripture carefully not traditions devoloped overtime.
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We admit no such coincidence because there is none.

Equating Our Lady with a pagan goddess is a “tradition that has developed over time” from no other motive than hostility to the Catholic Church, which venerates Mary in respect of her dignity as the Mother of Christ.
 
Christ's friend:
Exuse me but the title of queen comes form king. Christ is the King of heaven and His queen is His bride; the church not Mary. And think about the King David example his mother was not physically dead or departed from the earth.

And you have to admit Jer 7 and 44 are a BIG “coincidence” with Catholic teachings. Read Scripture carefully not traditions devoloped overtime.
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We admit no such coincidence because there is none.

Quite the contrary, equating Our Lady with a pagan goddess is a “tradition that has developed over time” from no other motive than hostility to the Catholic Church, which venerates Mary in respect of her dignity as the Mother of Christ.
 
Christ's friend:
And Jer 7 and 44 show that there is no queen of heaven to worship and that she is a false god made up by man as tradition and in idolatry.
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Exactly. The ‘queen of heaven’ in Jeremiah 7, 29, and 44 is a false goddess. This is the teaching of the Catholic Church.
 
Exactly. The ‘queen of heaven’ in Jeremiah 7, 29, and 44 is a false goddess. This is the teaching of the Catholic Church.
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I am glad you came up with that, and Jer teaches not to pray to any queen of heaven and I am glad you converted you beliefs.
 
Christ's friend:
I am glad you came up with that, and Jer teaches not to pray to any queen of heaven and I am glad you converted you beliefs.
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I am not sure I understand what you mean. The Catholic Church has not changed her beliefs.
 
Christ’s friend said:
Asking for peoples prayers is not a sin but intern is encouraged.*** Praying to someone was an act of worship*** at least the God of Jeramiah saw it that way. All those acts are grouped together as worship to the queen of heaven and were all considered idolatry.
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**You SURE you wanna rest yur hat on that??
  1. Asking for someone’s intersession or assistance IS a prayer.
  2. A prayer can be ONLY a petition to ANYONE.
    READ the OT for heaven’s sake.
    **For this child did I pray, and the Lord hath granted me my petition, which I asked of him.
    cease I pray you from this folly. (a petition)
    we pray thee, if we have found favour in thy sight, that thou give it to us thy servants in possession, and make us not pass over the Jordan. (a petition)
    I pray you to stay here this night also, that I may know what the Lord will answer me once more.
    If you need about 20 more, just ask.
**If some idolater wanted to create a “qeeen in heaven” before HE Himself was ready to, I don’t wonder that He put a stop to it. They were usurping a place He had reserved. Not real complicated.:rolleyes:

**
 
Solo Christo:
Hey guys I thought it would be interesting to read about the people who were practicing pagaism and worshiping a “queen of heaven”.

Turn to Jeremiah chapters 7 and 44 and read about there idoloatry.

God bless, and keep posting this is a really interesting topic.
Click to expand...
There is no relationship between the role of Mary as the Mother of the King of kings and that of an idol that did not exist. If you can find the relationship then please give examples.

Maggie
 
Christ's friend:
Exuse me but the title of queen comes form king. Christ is the King of heaven and His queen is His bride; the church not Mary. And think about the King David example his mother was not physically dead or departed from the earth.

And you have to admit Jer 7 and 44 are a BIG “coincidence” with Catholic teachings. Read Scripture carefully not traditions devoloped overtime.
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Goody goody gumdrops,

Christ’s friend you have just shown how little you understand about Judaism and the role of the Queen in the Scripture. So I think it is time for you to go find your Bible,(preferably one with all of the books) and start finding answers to the following questions:
  1. Why did Adonijar think it necessary to go to Bathsheba to have a request granted rather than direct to Solomon? Please provide the Scripture reference for your answer.
  2. Why did Solomon bow before Bathsheba? Please provide a Scripture reference with your answer.
  3. Who sat down at the right hand of Solomon. Please provide a Scriptural reference with your answer.
  4. Is it true or false that the king could not refuse the request of his mother? Please provide the Scriptural reference for your answer.
  5. If king Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines, how would he choose the queen?
  6. Why does Scripture preserve the names if the mothers of the kings of Israel and Judah? Please give references.
  7. Please read 1Kings 15:13. Why was it necessary to deprive the grandmother of Asa the dignity of being queen mother?
  8. Why does Scripture mention the name of the mother of Jehoshaphat? Please support your answer with a reference to Scripture.
  9. Why is there never a mention of the wives of the kings of Judah, but there is only mention of the king’s mother?
I put it to you, that there is a reason that Judah followed this practice. It was a prefiguration of what is to come in the Heavenly Kingdom.

If you believe that Jesus is the Son of the Most High, and if you believe that Jesus took on Flesh and was born of a virgin, then why do you deny what is prefigured in the Old Testament?

MaggieOH
 
Christ's friend:
Asking for peoples prays is not a sin but intern is encouraged. Praying to someone was an act of worship at least the God of Jeramiah saw it that way. All those acts are grouped together as worship to the queen of heaven and were all considered idolatry.
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There is a little bit of a sleight of hand going on here. First of all Christ’s friend says that asking for people’s prayers is not a sin. I think we can all agree on that point. Second he says praying to someone is an act of worship, and therefore idolatry.

However, it seems that Christ’s friend does not understand the meaning of praying. Is it not a request for a favour? For example, when we sign a petition to the government to have something overturmed, are we not praying to the Prime Minister or whoever is to be the recipient of that request?

This is where logically our friend has slipped up in what he is saying. You see, he has contradicted himself by acknowling that asking for people’s prayers is not a sin. Correct. Catholics ask the saints for prayers to God on our behalf, the same as we do when we ask Billy down the street to pray for us to God for a special intention.

MaggieOH
 
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