Halloween, Harry Potter, prompt concern from occult experts

[paramedicgirl]

Has anyone read what the Pope has to say about Harry Potter? True, he was still Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger when he wrote this:

Pope Opposes Harry Potter Novels - Signed Letters from Cardinal Ratzinger Now Online

RIMSTING, Germany, July 13, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) -

LifeSiteNews.com has obtained and made available online copies of two letters sent by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who was recently elected Pope, to a German critic of the Harry Potter novels. In March 2003, a month after the English press throughout the world falsely proclaimed that Pope John Paul II approved of Harry Potter, the man who was to become his successor sent a letter to a Gabriele Kuby outlining his agreement with her opposition to J.K. Rowling’s offerings. (See below for links to scanned copies of the letters signed by Cardinal Ratzinger.)

As the sixth issue of Rowling’s Harry Potter series - Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - is about to be released, the news that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger expressed serious reservations about the novels is now finally being revealed to the English-speaking world still under the impression the Vatican approves the Potter novels.

In a letter dated March 7, 2003 Cardinal Ratzinger thanked Kuby for her “instructive” book Harry Potter - gut oder böse (Harry Potter- good or evil?), in which Kuby says the Potter books corrupt the hearts of the young, preventing them from developing a properly ordered sense of good and evil, thus harming their relationship with God while that relationship is still in its infancy.

“It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly,” wrote Cardinal Ratzinger.

The letter also encouraged Kuby to send her book on Potter to the Vatican prelate who quipped about Potter during a press briefing which led to the false press about the Vatican support of Potter. At a Vatican press conference to present a study document on the New Age in April 2003, one of the presenters - Rev. Peter Fleetwood - made a positive comment on the Harry Potter books in response to a question from a reporter. Headlines such as “Pope Approves Potter” (Toronto Star), “Pope Sticks Up for Potter Books” (BBC), “Harry Potter Is Ok With The Pontiff” (Chicago Sun Times) and “Vatican: Harry Potter’s OK with us” (CNN Asia) littered the mainstream media.

In a second letter sent to Kuby on May 27, 2003, Cardinal Ratzinger “gladly” gave his permission to Kuby to make public “my judgement about Harry Potter.”

The most prominent Potter critic in North America, Catholic novelist and painter Michael O’Brien commented to LifeSiteNews.com on the “judgement” of now-Pope Benedict saying, “This discernment on the part of Benedict XVI reveals the Holy Father’s depth and wide ranging gifts of spiritual discernment.” O’Brien, author of a book dealing with fantasy literature for children added, “it is consistent with many of the statements he’s been making since his election to the Chair of Peter, indeed for the past 20 years - a probing accurate read of the massing spiritual warfare that is moving to a new level of struggle in western civilization. He is a man in whom a prodigious intellect is integrated with great spiritual gifts. He is the father of the universal church and we would do well to listen to him.”

English translations of the two letters by Cardinal Ratzinger follow:

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
Vatican City
March 7, 2003

Esteemed and dear Ms. Kuby!

Many thanks for your kind letter of February 20th and the informative book which you sent me in the same mail. It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly.

I would like to suggest that you write to Mr. Peter Fleetwood, (Pontifical Council of Culture, Piazza S. Calisto 16, I00153 Rome) directly and to send him your book.

Sincere Greetings and Blessings,

• Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

=======================

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
Vatican City
May 27, 2003

Esteemed and dear Ms. Kuby,

Somehow your letter got buried in the large pile of name-day , birthday and Easter mail. Finally this pile is taken care of, so that I can gladly allow you to refer to my judgment about Harry Potter.

Sincere Greetings and Blessings,

• Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

Links to the scanned copies of the two signed letters by Cardinal Ratzinger (in German) - In PDF format:
lifesite.net/ldn/2005_docs/ratzingerlet…
lifesite.net/ldn/2005_docs/ratzingerper…

 

[Catholic90]

HP is a fun read. It gets children reading, which is a good thing. It is purely entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. Anyone who has studied Latin knows the “spells” are nothing more than Latin. It is quite clever.

I really enjoy the Potter series. So did my kids. We have all read them together first, and then each of my kids have read them individually. Reading them really helped their reading ability My then 9 year old 3rd grader read them all, and when he started was reading at about a 3rd grade level. Once he finished the books, he tested at a 9th grade level while in grade 4. I attribute some of this jump to just reading, which happened to be the HP series.

There will always be detractors of books. Personally, I make it a point to have my kids read the books on the Banned Book List. Education is power.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

paramedicgirl:

Has anyone read what the Pope has to say about Harry Potter? True, he was still Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger when he wrote this:

Pope Opposes Harry Potter Novels - Signed Letters from Cardinal Ratzinger Now Online

This is one of those things that got much play but was not what everyone claimed it was.

First, it was from Cardinal Ratizinger. Yes the Cardinal did become the Pope but you can not always take everything that the Cardinal said and say that he would say the same thing as Pope.

You must actually read what he said rather than take others word on it.

I do not see him opposing Harry Potter in the transcripts I have read. Do a search on the forum here on Harry Potter and you will see many threads where this has been discussed.

I would add one final thing. Even if the Holy Father did say he was opposed to it in a private letter to an individual, that would not mean it is offical Church teaching.

As I have said, parents need to be the parents of their children and to know what they are reading and to talk to them about it. It is no one elses job, it is the parents job.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Catholic90:

HP is a fun read. It gets children reading, which is a good thing. It is purely entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. Anyone who has studied Latin knows the “spells” are nothing more than Latin. It is quite clever.

I really enjoy the Potter series. So did my kids. We have all read them together first, and then each of my kids have read them individually. Reading them really helped their reading ability My then 9 year old 3rd grader read them all, and when he started was reading at about a 3rd grade level. Once he finished the books, he tested at a 9th grade level while in grade 4. I attribute some of this jump to just reading, which happened to be the HP series.

There will always be detractors of books. Personally, I make it a point to have my kids read the books on the Banned Book List. Education is power.

For those of you with iTunes, there is a priest who does a podcast on the Christian themes in Harry Potter, I listened to the first one and plan to listen to the rest soon.

Its called The Secrets of Harry Potter by Fr Roderick Vonhogen.

Here is a link to his site. CatholicInsider

 

[paramedicgirl]

ByzCath:

This is one of those things that got much play but was not what everyone claimed it was.

First, it was from Cardinal Ratizinger. Yes the Cardinal did become the Pope but you can not always take everything that the Cardinal said and say that he would say the same thing as Pope.

If you re-read my post you will see that I never made this claim. In fact, I clearly stated that he was not Pope when he said this.

ByzCath:

You must actually read what he said rather than take others word on it.

Here is what Cardinal Ratzinger said, “It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly.”

ByzCath:

I do not see him opposing Harry Potter in the transcripts I have read. I would add one final thing. Even if the Holy Father did say he was opposed to it in a private letter to an individual, that would not mean it is offical Church teaching.

I am aware what makes official Church teaching, and I never suggested his comments were officially made. But the Pope’s opinion (even as Cardinal Ratzinger) is a much stronger influence on me than yours, if I may say so without offending you.

ByzCath:

As I have said, parents need to be the parents of their children and to know what they are reading and to talk to them about it. It is no one elses job, it is the parents job.

Agreed.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

paramedicgirl:

Here is what Cardinal Ratzinger said, “It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly.”

Yes, that is what he said, but there was a clairfication put out after these remarks, again if you do a search you will find it. It was also discussed on Catholic Answers Live.

The then Cardinal Ratizinger was replying to a letter written to him by an author who is against Harry Potter. The Cardinal has not read the Harry Potter books. In her letter to the Cardinal the author says that the Harry Potter books are unchristian and teach the occult and witchcraft (both of those have been successfully refuted and the unchristian part is in question if you read my last reply) and the Cardinal’s comment was in light of the author’s statement and belief, not on any independant belief of the Cardinal.

I am aware what makes official Church teaching, and I never suggested his comments were officially made. But the Pope’s opinion (even as Cardinal Ratzinger) is a much stronger influence on me than yours, if I may say so without offending you.

I am sorry but I do not give any weight to a private letter to an individual when we do not see the original letter that the person is replying to.

But as I said, clarification was later made as to what the Cardinal was commenting on in his reply.

 

[paramedicgirl]

ByzCath:

Yes, that is what he said, but there was a clairfication put out after these remarks, again if you do a search you will find it. It was also discussed on Catholic Answers Live.

I tried a search and found 173 threads that mention Harry Potter. I looked through a few that seemed possible, but it’s far too much material to search through. Especially when I don’t really know what I’m looking for!

 

[amarischuk]

contemplative:

Adam,
Your choice - read or view
‘Le Mort D’Arthur’ or ‘Sir Gawain and the Green Knight’
‘Star Wars’
and whatever else it is you fancy.

As a mother, I know first hand how literature influences young minds.

And as a history and literature teacher I suppose I am ignorant of the influences of literature.

There is plenty of enrichening literature available for parents to buy without resorting to trashy seductive evil material which isn’t worth the paper it is printed on.
Go ahead and scoff and insult those parents you so easily condemned.

I agree, Harry Potter is nonsense…but it is EXACTLY where nonsense should be according to Chesterton, in childrens literature.

As for “Harry Potter books lead to nothing.” I highly doubt that, have you ever read a fiction book? Watched a Disney movie? (lookout, Cinderella, Snow White and Sleeping Beauty are the next “subtle seductions”).

I say this but the last fiction book I read was Eco’s “Name of the Rose”…two years ago. I have burried myself in history and philosophy: Copleston, Etienne Gilson, Marie-Dominique Chenu, Christopher Dawson, Erasmus, Jacques Maritain etc.

Come to think of it, I’ve had Boccaccio’s Deccameron on my shelf for a while…but I suppose I will be seduced by that evil, vile, worthless, seductive literature.

Parents are obligated to help their children determine and discern what is worth taking the time to read.

How old are your children? I would say that at around the same time they have a strong enough reading ability to enjoy Harry Potter, they should have the common sense to know that magic exists only in fairy tales. Unless the children have been homeschooled.

Adam

 

[deb1]

amarischuk:

And as a history and literature teacher I suppose I am ignorant of the influences of literature.

I agree, Harry Potter is nonsense…but it is EXACTLY where nonsense should be according to Chesterton, in childrens literature.

As for “Harry Potter books lead to nothing.” I highly doubt that, have you ever read a fiction book? Watched a Disney movie? (lookout, Cinderella, Snow White and Sleeping Beauty are the next “subtle seductions”).

I say this but the last fiction book I read was Eco’s “Name of the Rose”…two years ago. I have burried myself in history and philosophy: Copleston, Etienne Gilson, Marie-Dominique Chenu, Christopher Dawson, Erasmus, Jacques Maritain etc.

Come to think of it, I’ve had Boccaccio’s Deccameron on my shelf for a while…but I suppose I will be seduced by that evil, vile, worthless, seductive literature.

How old are your children? I would say that at around the same time they have a strong enough reading ability to enjoy Harry Potter, they should have the common sense to know that magic exists only in fairy tales. Unless the children have been homeschooled.

Adam

Um…my children are homeschooled and they do know the difference between fantasy and reality. I would worry about them if they didn’t.

My oldest son is dyslexic and trying to get him to read was like pulling teeth without anesthia. When Harry Potter first came out, I read the first novel to him. When the second book came out, for the first time in his life, he sat and read the entire book through. I should add without any prompting from me! In fact, Harry Potter seemed to break him from his dislike of reading.

Last year he read Great Expectations by Charles Dickens. It was a long novel that I assigned but he loved it and didn’t complain. So, it isn’t as though kids that read Harry Potter aren’t also reading great literature.

By the way, many, many years ago I read Boccaccio’s Deccameron. I dropped it while reading in the tub as I was getting dressed and ruined my copy.

 

[contemplative]

amarischuk:

Unless the children have been homeschooled.

Nasty, Nasty, Nasty :tsktsk:

 

[paramedicgirl]

amarischuk:

How old are your children? I would say that at around the same time they have a strong enough reading ability to enjoy Harry Potter, they should have the common sense to know that magic exists only in fairy tales. Unless the children have been homeschooled.
Adam

Are you condemming homeschooling with this comment? Are you saying that parents who homeschool are religious fanatics who pervert the minds of their children?

In my community we have a large number of parents who homeschool for various reasons, with several belonging to the Catholic Church. Their children are the most intelligent, informed Catholics in the parish. If your comment means what I think it does, it is very off-base and offensive.

 

[contemplative]

amarischuk:

And as a history and literature teacher I suppose I am ignorant of the influences of literature.

I agree, Harry Potter is nonsense…but it is EXACTLY where nonsense should be according to Chesterton, in childrens literature.
G.K. Chesterton was born on Campden Hill, in Kensington, London on May 29, 1874. He was educated at St. Paul’s School and the Slade School of Art. In 1901, he married Frances Blogg. They made their home in Beaconsfield, a borough of Buckinghamshire. They had no children. Read more…

No children G.K. Chesterton??..hmmm

As for “Harry Potter books lead to nothing.” I highly doubt that, have you ever read a fiction book? Watched a Disney movie? (lookout, Cinderella, Snow White and Sleeping Beauty are the next “subtle seductions”).

I say this but the last fiction book I read was Eco’s “Name of the Rose”…two years ago. I have burried myself in history and philosophy: Copleston, Etienne Gilson, Marie-Dominique Chenu, Christopher Dawson, Erasmus, Jacques Maritain etc.

Am I supposed to be impressed here?

Come to think of it, I’ve had Boccaccio’s Deccameron on my shelf for a while…but I suppose I will be seduced by that evil, vile, worthless, seductive literature.

And again?

How old are your children? I would say that at around the same time they have a strong enough reading ability to enjoy Harry Potter, they should have the common sense to know that magic exists only in fairy tales. Unless the children have been homeschooled.

‘Unless the children have been homeschooled’ is not a sentence. This doesn’t say much for your credentials as a history and literature teacher or a parent for that matter.

Adam

 

[amarischuk]

contemplative:

No children G.K. Chesterton??..hmmm

“No children G.K. Chesterton??..hmmm” is not a complete sentence.

And again?

“And again?” is also not a complete sentence.

But then again, that doesn’t say much for your credentials as a homeschooling parent does it? Two can play these childish games.

Am I supposed to be impressed here?

Yes, my raison d’etre is to impress you on this forum.

Congratulations Deb on getting your son to read, while I was at the seminary I worked extensively with a dyslexic seminarian and I know that it can be very frustrating because often they are very intelligent yet have communication problems (read, writing) which makes it difficult for them to express themselves in written form. Chesterton was also a great fan of Dickens. Great choice of book.

I am sorry to hear about your copy of the Decameron, I did the same thing to my copy of Don Quixote (read in the bath tub is a dangerous hobbey; however, it is far less dangerous than not reading or making toast in the bath tub).

Paramedic girl, I am also from BC (a small town) and I know many families which homeschool. In my experience, about 90% of the families which homeschool their children simply shouldn’t. In Canada we have an excellent public education system (both French and English) along with government funded Catholic schools. The other 10% of the homeschool populations are doing a very good job but they are very busy. Most parents choose to send their children to school (after a couple years of homeschooling) because of the stress of the job, the time constraints and the problem of the children not developing a significant social circle outside of the family.

I will not argue that perhaps the children of people who homeschool are the most knowledgable about their faith, but that is likely because of the faith of the parents.

Adam

 

[contemplative]

amarischuk:

Paramedic girl, I am also from BC (a small town) and I know many families which homeschool. In my experience, about 90% of the families which homeschool their children simply shouldn’t. In Canada we have an excellent public education system (both French and English) along with government funded Catholic schools. The other 10% of the homeschool populations are doing a very good job but they are very busy. Most parents choose to send their children to school (after a couple years of homeschooling) because of the stress of the job, the time constraints and the problem of the children not developing a significant social circle outside of the family.

I will not argue that perhaps the children of people who homeschool are the most knowledgable about their faith, but that is likely because of the faith of the parents.

Adam

I suppose this is suppose to be the sauve for your original statement of ignorance.

amarischuk:

How old are your children? I would say that at around the same time they have a strong enough reading ability to enjoy Harry Potter, they should have the common sense to know that magic exists only in fairy tales. Unless the children have been homeschooled.

It is amazing how often the Bible warns against witchcraft and sorcers, both in the Old and the New testaments. Scripture warns us that withccraft is one of the most common means used by the devil to bind men to himself and to dehumanize them. Directly or indirectly, withcraft is a cult of Satan. Those who practice any sort of magic believe that they can maniputlate superior powers, but in reality it is they who are manipulated. from An Exorcist Tells His Story by Gabriel Amorth

Considering this and what the Bible teaches us in addition to the fact there are loads and loads of great children’s literature, why would parents rush to buy books that glorify witchcraft and other such evil?

 

[paramedicgirl]

amarischuk:

Paramedic girl, I am also from BC (a small town) and I know many families which homeschool. In my experience, about 90% of the families which homeschool their children simply shouldn’t. In Canada we have an excellent public education system (both French and English) along with government funded Catholic schools. The other 10% of the homeschool populations are doing a very good job but they are very busy. Most parents choose to send their children to school (after a couple years of homeschooling) because of the stress of the job, the time constraints and the problem of the children not developing a significant social circle outside of the family.

I will not argue that perhaps the children of people who homeschool are the most knowledgable about their faith, but that is likely because of the faith of the parents.

Adam

I am very familiar with our education systm. I still have one child in French Immersion. I am also familiar with the incredible power of the BC Teachers Federation and how they are threatening to go on strike again. I guess 93% of all education dollars isn’t enough for their wages.
But this is not the forum to debate the issues of BC Teachers.

But I will defend the rights of parents to homeschool. The families I know who homeschool have provided their children with
better education than they would have received in our public schools.

There are drawbacks to public schools. Look at all the wasted time in a school day. Students do not receive adequate education for all the time they spend away from home. There is incredible peer pressure to deal with, bullying, and questionable influences from teachers and other students that affect the morality of children. Not to mention the absence of God. That is the worst part of public schools.

 

[amarischuk]

I suppose this is suppose to be the sauve for your original statement of ignorance.

At no time did I state that I was ignorant of the education system. Perhaps you meant that my previous statement was ignorant. Such childish statements lead me to believe that you ‘contemplative’ should contemplate your behaviour on this thread.

Your fear mongering of witchcraft and sorcery is quite laughable. You don’t happen to live in Salem do you? As Chesterton said (and you laughed at Chesterton for not having children, which shows your ignorance of one of the greatest minds of our time) you are commiting idolatry by setting up false deamons.

Perhaps you missed Fr. Groeschel’s foreward (or was it Father Amantini?) who wrote (as one reviewer noted):

“I have difficulties with Fr. Amroth’s [sic.] approach.”

“This book needs to be read with care but with an open mind.”

And Paramedicgirl:

I am the product of l’Ecole Francophone de Summerland (the old program Cadre) which has now amalgamated with Penticton’s french immersion. You should be very happy that the Canadian government is providing your child with an excellent biligual education. There are also a number of Catholic schools in BC, if their is not one near you, I would suggest trying to start one! (My mother started the French program in Summerland and she is an accountant, not involved in education at all).

However, if you are as familiar with the education system as you claim (please provide evidence that 93% of education spending goes to teacher’s wages) than you will know that the BC teachers cannot go on strick since the Campbell government deemed them an essential service. They are threatening limited job action over the elimination of extracurricular activities and a wage dispute (8% to 22% over three years).

You claim that the familes you know who homeschooled have provided their children with better education than the families that haven’t. My experience has been the contrary. In the three families who homeschool at our small parish, I cannot think of any children who continued on to university. The only one I know who did go you university from our parish (and his siblings now go to the Catholic school) was only homeschooled briefly in elementary school.

I personally did not experience an “absence of God” in the public school classroom. Certainly ther were no prayers, but groups were permitted to meet and use the school property before class for prayer services. Many of my teachers I would frequently see at Mass on Sunday. In social studies we would study world religions and were encouraged to look into our own religious heritage (especially being French in a French school). And even the biology teacher gave the warning before starting the section on evolution that it is a theory and you need not accept all aspects of it (but you still need to study it).

That said, the best years of school I had were after graduating from SFU and studying at a Catholic seminary near Chicago where the intellectual climat was conducive to studying and reading (our librarian was a friend of Peter Kreeft’s).

Adam

 

[Viki59]

We tend to forget how impressionable children are and how great an impact our first books have on us. I read Lewis’ *The Silver Chair * when I was 12. I didn’t understand it at all, it was so weirdly beautiful, but I never forgot it. Christian theology is contained in it in symbolic form – Puddleglums’ speech in which he says, “I don’t know whether my world is real or not, but even if it’s a dream it beats [the witch’s underground] world all hollow – and I’ll go on believing in Aslan even if there is no Aslan to believe in.”

Later I ran into Lewis’ adult books, and was reading Mere Christianity when I had my first conversion experience, which led eventually to the Catholic church.
What if I had read the Harry Potter series instead? Would I have been fascinated by the Satanist I met in my twenties, and stayed to listen to him instead of walking out?
I think the risk of Harry Potter outweighs the gain. I read the first one to my kids, but haven’t bought any more, and no one is clamoring to hear them.

 

[Penny_Plain]

contemplative:

The choice is yours. I do not recommend any book that doesn’t in some way shape or form lean most greatly at teaching children the right way to go…the only way to go…to Jesus…to Loving…and All Good.

No Dr. Seuss?

How boring.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

contemplative:

It is amazing how often the Bible warns against witchcraft and sorcers, both in the Old and the New testaments. Scripture warns us that withccraft is one of the most common means used by the devil to bind men to himself and to dehumanize them. Directly or indirectly, withcraft is a cult of Satan. Those who practice any sort of magic believe that they can maniputlate superior powers, but in reality it is they who are manipulated. from An Exorcist Tells His Story by Gabriel Amorth

Considering this and what the Bible teaches us in addition to the fact there are loads and loads of great children’s literature, why would parents rush to buy books that glorify witchcraft and other such evil?

Why you do discount first hand accounts?

I have practiced witchcraft and sorcery. Nothing in Harry Potter even remotely resembles either of them.

Seems you have a bias against it for some reason yet you do not extend that bias to Lord of the Rings which has just as much “glorification” of magic in it.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

This has all been hashed out in the CAF long ago.

That letter from Cardinal Ratizinger was followed up by a Vatican priest who read the HP books as an assignment and found nothing wrong with them.

No less than Mark Shea has come to the defense of Harry Potter. I seem to remember (I could be wrong) that CA apologist Jimmy Akin also weighed in.

It seems everybody wants to find something bad in anything that smacks of fantasy. Children need fantasy. Yes, they also need to recognize right from wrong. HP has that by the gallons.

I hate argument. I hate it when people get so hot that they are the only ones who are right, and the rest of us are in their opinion headed for inferno if we don’t do it their way. It seems to be a form of Catholic puritanism.