Halloween, Harry Potter, prompt concern from occult experts

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ByzCath:
Yup, the same is for the Lord of the Rings, the Chronicles of Narnia, and every other work of fantasy.

They also introduce children to violence and we know all children who read such things grow up as violent adults.
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OK, I just spent the afternoon at the library with my child and her friends. I picked up the Harry Potter book about the half-blood prince and read it while they were looking for books.

What I found was a lot of reference to the occult, in particular spells, witchcraft, enchantments, and sacrifice and allegiance to the Dark Lord, (who is he supposed to represent, the devil?)

I have to honestly say the book did not appeal to me. I realize it is fantasy, but there is so much in it that contradicts Catholicism, I have to wonder if it plants the seed of future experimentation and curiosity with the occult in the minds of some children.

Yeah, I guess I’ll get a backlash on this post from Harry Potter defenders, but guess what? Not one of the three 10 year old girls I brought to the library even thought of Harry Potter books. They were busy looking for teen magazines that were morally fit to read! They had a discard pile of Seventeen and Teen magazines that had articles about sex and boyfriends! They actually searched the table of contents for immoral articles so they would not be exposed those writings! 👍
 
In response to a post made by Adam a long, long way back:

You were very mistaken in not seeing the difference in pretending to be a Star Wars figure and “using the force” and Harry Potter and witchcraft. The difference is that “the force” as it is presented in Star Wars is from a mythical world, but witchcraft is here and now.

The Catholic Church has always recognized that witchcraft is using power not authorized to men by God, but through other spirits. Witchcraft is meddling with power that man should not have, and which is not safe nor moral. Witchcraft in any form, and that includes the “religion” of Wicca, is wrong, and no one is justified in using it. I do not mean that witchcraft itself is evil; but that it is meddling with things that almost always are wrong. (I’m sure there are good spirits/angels/saints out there that would communicate with you, but it’s even more likely that one of Satan’s hordes is even more ready to jump at the chance to lead you astray. And once you open your mind to the ethics of witchcraft, you can open it to anything.) You know what happened to someone who wanted more power than he had right to?? He was removed from the heavenly Kingdom and sent to reign in Hell. His name was Lucifer; now he is more commonly known as Satan. Do you think I exaggerate? Just think, would you like even a bit of his fate? I say again, under any circumstances, it is wrong to mess with witchcraft.

I know that many people are going to be angry and misquote me or refute my statements, but that’s just my opinion!
 
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paramedicgirl:
What I found was a lot of reference to the occult, in particular spells, witchcraft, enchantments, and sacrifice and allegiance to the Dark Lord, (who is he supposed to represent, the devil?)
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And you are wrong. The particular spells in the Harry Potter books have nothing to do with the occult nor with witchcraft.

The idea of witchcraft that was developed in the middle ages has nothing to do with what witchcraft actually is. That idea is realy satanism.

I feel like I am talking to a wall here. As someone who has experience with this stuff I do not understand your refusal to understand this simple fact.

One more try, no where in the practice of the occult/witchcraft do people run around waving wands reciting latin phrases.

I guess I am at a loss on how to get though to you and it is time I stop even reading this nonsense.
 
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ProudToBCathlic:
In response to a post made by Adam a long, long way back:

You were very mistaken in not seeing the difference in pretending to be a Star Wars figure and “using the force” and Harry Potter and witchcraft. The difference is that “the force” as it is presented in Star Wars is from a mythical world, but witchcraft is here and now.
/FONT]
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And the witchcraft that is here and now has nothing to do with what occurs in Harry Potter.

Those who think so know nothing about it.
 
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ProudToBCathlic:
In response to a post made by Adam a long, long way back:

You were very mistaken in not seeing the difference in pretending to be a Star Wars figure and “using the force” and Harry Potter and witchcraft. The difference is that “the force” as it is presented in Star Wars is from a mythical world, but witchcraft is here and now.

The Catholic Church has always recognized that witchcraft is using power not authorized to men by God, but through other spirits. Witchcraft is meddling with power that man should not have, and which is not safe nor moral. Witchcraft in any form, and that includes the “religion” of Wicca, is wrong, and no one is justified in using it. I do not mean that witchcraft itself is evil; but that it is meddling with things that almost always are wrong. (I’m sure there are good spirits/angels/saints out there that would communicate with you, but it’s even more likely that one of Satan’s hordes is even more ready to jump at the chance to lead you astray. And once you open your mind to the ethics of witchcraft, you can open it to anything.) You know what happened to someone who wanted more power than he had right to?? He was removed from the heavenly Kingdom and sent to reign in Hell. His name was Lucifer; now he is more commonly known as Satan. Do you think I exaggerate? Just think, would you like even a bit of his fate? I say again, under any circumstances, it is wrong to mess with witchcraft.

I know that many people are going to be angry and misquote me or refute my statements, but that’s just my opinion!
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Dear Proud to be Catholic,
I will not refute your statements because you have stated the truth. By ‘sounding’ on these threads we often rake up responses from people that help us understand where they are coming from. It is rather surprising or shocking at times.
Hopefully H. Potter will soon be replaced by another more holy character who glorifies Goodness throughtout every chapter. There were many Good ones before H. Potter and there will be plenty more to follow after H. Potter.
I hope there is an inspired writer out there now penning a Good one for children.

Contemplative
 
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mlchance:
And here’s my typical response to this sort of hysteria: Spellcasting 101.

– Mark L. Chance.
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What worries me about such hysteria, is that it makes people in the USA look foolish. Given the power of the USA, this is a far from comforting thought.
 
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ByzCath:
And you are wrong. The particular spells in the Harry Potter books have nothing to do with the occult nor with witchcraft…
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Then please enlighten me and tell me what those spells and incantations are used for. Surely not for the glorification of God. What about the sacrifice to the dark lord? Are you saying that this is an innocuous, good little book that will help children grow in their Catholic faith?
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ByzCath:
One more try, no where in the practice of the occult/witchcraft do people run around waving wands reciting latin phrases.
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Does the book have to have authentic witchcraft & spells to negatively impact the minds of children? How can you not think it is likely to encourage certain children to explore witchcraft? After all, it puts them in the environment, you cannot deny that.
 
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contemplative:
I am not sure what being an ex-paramedic has to do with this thread.
Maybe you could explain?

Parents are justified to be concerned about a book with such a large following…
The Potter books tout witchcraft, sorcery and magic spells. My estimation is that these books sell occult to some degree. Even the essence of enticement should be frowned upon.
When I have a chance I will take out some literature to support this. Right now I am finishing wood and can’t…later.
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As has doubtless been said already, the Bible contains witchcraft, sorcery, and much much more - rape, genocide, slavery, murder, crucifixion, decapitation, and other such delights. And in many cases these things are not protested against at all - they are presented, not infrequently, as God’s Will.

It deserves a triple R rating - yet it’s available to under-twelves.

The Bible is a thousand times more dangerous than anything by J.K. Rowling. She doesn’t advocate smashing the heads of babies against stones - Psalm 137.9 does. She doesn’t represent failure to exterminate the Amalekites as a great sin - 1 Samuel 15 does. These are just random examples of the immoral contents of this book.

And people worry about Harry Potter.
 
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ByzCath:
deb1 kind of covers it, as for the wicca part. Occult Magic is not religion. Not all the time anyways. It is a set of rituals. Usually in english but some in other languages but I have not seen latin used.

Look at the user name of the OP, paramedicgirl.

I am sorry but you are wrong. They do not tout witchcraft, sorcery, and magic spells in any way as what is done in the Harry Potter stories resembles the occult in no way. Saying this is the same as saying that Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia tout witchcraft, sorcery, and magic spells.
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Both works contain spells and rhymes of lore - such as the spell for opening the gate of Moria, and the book belonging to Koriakin in “The Voyage of the Dawn Treader”; or the spell of the bell in the palace of Charn, in “The Magician’s Nephew”.

One could argue that the prophecies in LOTR are spells.
NO there no literature to support it as, again (feel like :banghead: ) as nothing in the Harry Potter books is how the occult is practiced in any way.

Until you can show that people are running around waving wands reciting latin phrases and trying to fly on brooms, its just nonsense to make such a blanket statement.

I think the OP hit the nail on the head when she said,
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Gottle of Geer:
As has doubtless been said already, the Bible contains witchcraft, sorcery, and much much more - rape, genocide, slavery, murder, crucifixion, decapitation, and other such delights. And in many cases these things are not protested against at all - they are presented, not infrequently, as God’s Will.

It deserves a triple R rating - yet it’s available to under-twelves.

The Bible is a thousand times more dangerous than anything by J.K. Rowling. She doesn’t advocate smashing the heads of babies against stones - Psalm 137.9 does. She doesn’t represent failure to exterminate the Amalekites as a great sin - 1 Samuel 15 does. These are just random examples of the immoral contents of this book.

And people worry about Harry Potter.
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I understand what you are saying about content, but I think you have missed the message
 
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paramedicgirl:
I understand what you are saying about content, but I think you have missed the message
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How, though ?

If one book can be condemned because of its content, certainly the other can, and far more convincingly. If the Bible were not thought to be inspired, it would have been roundly condemned on moral grounds; as, indeed, it often is by those who don’t think of it as inspired.

Its contents, are one of the reasons that Muslims don’t think much of it
 
Gottle of Geer:
How, though ?

If one book can be condemned because of its content, certainly the other can, and far more convincingly. If the Bible were not thought to be inspired, it would have been roundly condemned on moral grounds; as, indeed, it often is by those who don’t think of it as inspired.

Its contents, are one of the reasons that Muslims don’t think much of it
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What I mean is the message of the bible leads you to God while teaching you about evil.

The message of Harry Potter does nothing to lead you to God.

How can the two possibly be compared?
 
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paramedicgirl:
What I mean is the message of the bible leads you to God while teaching you about evil.

The message of Harry Potter does nothing to lead you to God.

How can the two possibly be compared?
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Ok, I’ve pretty much stayed out of this debate until now because we have had this conversation a number of times, and it is looking a lot like all the others…

That said, this comment struck a chord with me.

If you want to know how the message of HP leads to God, PLEASE pick up the title called “FINDING GOD IN HARRY POTTER” by John Granger.

He has done a literary analysis of the books from the perspective of a religion man who believed the same as you- prior to reading it.

I encourage you to read the following discussion we had the summer of 2004- and pick up a copy of the book at your local library. It is a quick read- and it’s very insightful from an academic perspective.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=6391&highlight=Harry+Potter
 
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paramedicgirl:
Then please enlighten me and tell me what those spells and incantations are used for.
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They are used for nothing, they are wholy made up, creations of the author.

Your argument is the same as saying that David Copperfield, David Blain, and other “magicians” like them practice the occult and witchcraft.

Don’t let your kids do magic tricks with cards, it will lead to witchcraft and the occult.

If you must make this argument then you must include all fantasy works, which include the Lord of the Rings and the Chronicles of Narnia.

So if you wish to exclude everthing that may lead a person to looking at witchcraft and the occult then you must not only eliminate all fantasy works but you must exclude works of history too.
 
Oh for goodness sakes…
I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve seen this debate in my relatively short life.

I remember when I was 12/13 and the books first came out-and I didn’t read them, frankly, because I thought that they were childish. Then for lack of something to read on a long road trip, I picked up a copy at my grandmother’s house (who was a third grade teacher and a very strict Catholic). I got into it, not because I decided that I wanted to be a witch or some hooey like that, but because the book was, dare I mention it, ENJOYABLE to read?!

IF you don’t want your kids to read/watch HP, then that is YOUR business; I had a friend who couldn’t watch any TV or movies that mentioned witchcraft until she was about 16-and I could, so I’ve seen both sides of the picture here. So based on this practice, should we not then ban classics from Wells, Verne, Tolkein, Lewis, and Shelley? Outlaw reruns of “Sabrina the Teenage Witch”, “Bewitched”, and “I Dream of Jeannie”? This argument is as old as time itself and is never going to end. :banghead:

But you know the difference? SEEING isn’t PRACTICING, nor is it “enticing” to a child if it has been raised in a proper Christian home! If a child has been raised in a good Catholic home, I should certainly hope that they would know the difference between reality and fantasy. Because if they aren’t, I’m worried about the future of my country.:eek:
 
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gijenn2331:
IF you don’t want your kids to read/watch HP, then that is YOUR business; I had a friend who couldn’t watch any TV or movies that mentioned witchcraft until she was about 16-and I could, so I’ve seen both sides of the picture here. So based on this practice, should we not then ban classics from Wells, Verne, Tolkein, Lewis, and Shelley? Outlaw reruns of “Sabrina the Teenage Witch”, “Bewitched”, and “I Dream of Jeannie”? This argument is as old as time itself and is never going to end. :banghead:
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My stance on HP books is for my household alone. If my 10 year old chose to read them (she doesn’t yet), I would also read the same book so we could discuss the book from a Christian viewpoint. I don’t encourage her to read them, but I don’t prevent her from doing so either.

I don’t need to worry about monitoring TV shows, though. We don’t have any TV in my house. 🙂 Boy, does lack of TV ever create an active kid!
 
Thanks for the laugh.

Anyone who knows anything about the occult knows that this is just bunk.

I have experienced the occult, I used to practice much.

Nothing in the Harry Potter books even remotely resembles any occult practices.

They do not run around waving wands and tossing out latin phrases.

Just too funny.
Pride is one of the deadly sins and the above statements reeks of pride
I pray God removes the scales from your eyes.

Lenis
 
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Lenis:
Thanks for the laugh.

Anyone who knows anything about the occult knows that this is just bunk.

I have experienced the occult, I used to practice much.

Nothing in the Harry Potter books even remotely resembles any occult practices.

They do not run around waving wands and tossing out latin phrases.

Just too funny.
Pride is one of the deadly sins and the above statements reeks of pride
I pray God removes the scales from your eyes.

Lenis
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And your reply here Lenis, accusing me of pride, reeks of judgement.

Please enlighen me how stating my beliefs and showing my experiences that are behind that belief are pride.

I stand by what I said and await your apology.
 
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