Harry Potter Confusion

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Harry Potter is not a textbook on witchcraft, it’s fiction for teenagers. It does not endorse witchcraft, neither does it contain anything resembling actual witchcraft. It’s a fictional work, plain and simple.

Anyone who claims differenty is either ignorant of the facts or has an agenda.
 
James_2:24:
Where is a Catholic suppose to stand on this subject??? It seems the Church is even confused. I hear some Priests, Apologists, Bishops that say its okay. Others say no.

It seems the Protestants are more unified on this subject
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Harry Potter is fiction…it’s fantasy…and it’s art. The Church usually doesn’t rule on art. JRR Tolkein (a Catholic) wrote “The Hobbit”…“Lord of the Rings”, etc.

As one priest said in Vatican City…"In each one’s childhood there have been fairy godmothers, magicians, angels and witches, which are not bad things but a help for children to understand the conflict between good and evil.”
 
Wow! I’m surprised at the level headedness of all the responses. Good job guys!

I keep telling my daughter that the whole economy of Harry Potter is defective. Why should I (a muggle) work, if I could get most of the “stuff” I want for the purchase of a magic wand and book of spells?

I ask her to be aware of how the author borrows from sources that range from pagan to evil to move the story line, and how much this is a “feel good” story for kids who have been abused by society.

I ask her to contrast that need to “feel good” with the selfish attitudes of many kids (who probably have been slightly ripped off by society while having benefits of American society that exceed what was available to kings of only 75-150 years ago), which kids feel ripped off “by life” and don’t hold that goal of “good” that Harry, Hermione, Ron, Hagrid, and whatever-the-head-wizard’s-name-is have.
 
My only real problem with the Harry Potter stuff was already mentioned earlier: poor moral examples. Harry breaks a major rule, but proves to be a star athlete, and he is not punished. An evil act can be committed for good (very problematic). Yes, at times there are consequinces for poor choices, but sometimes there are not. I like the fact that something is getting kids to read, but these issues are important to see. C. S. Lewis’ Narnia books are better for children. Tolkein never wrote his books for children. I read them when young, and it did not have the same effect that it had on me when I was older. Why? The sense of duty and self-sacrifice was not as well developed with in me and thus it was not seen in the characters. Both Lewis and Tolkien included images that are very Christian. They also had clear moral teachings with little room for ambiguity.
 
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maxk:
Not only do the good guys win in the end, but they do it through self-sacrifice. An example is Ron’s willingness to die in the chess game so that the evil guy (you know, him who should not be named…) can be stopped.

If your child might not get the distinction between fantasy and real regarding the wizardry, then it is a good idea to not allow them to read it, but overall the messages are good.
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One thing (TRUE) that you might be interested to know about Harry Potter is2 things, the names that they use in the movies and the books, are real names of Demons, and as these name are said, these deamons are released from hell (Not to do good thingd either)> Another thing is that a women who found out that Harry Potter was pure evil burned the books and other Harry Potter stuff and stated that she (1) has never seen a fire like that before and (2) that while the stuff was burning, she heard hiddious howling. This is true.
 
The Catechism:

Divination and magic

#2116
All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan
or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology,
palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of
clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for
power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human
beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117​

All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to
tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of
religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when
accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they
have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is
also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical
practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it.
Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the
invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.
 
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Kath:
One thing (TRUE) that you might be interested to know about Harry Potter is2 things, the names that they use in the movies and the books, are real names of Demons, and as these name are said, these deamons are released from hell (Not to do good thingd either)> Another thing is that a women who found out that Harry Potter was pure evil burned the books and other Harry Potter stuff and stated that she (1) has never seen a fire like that before and (2) that while the stuff was burning, she heard hiddious howling. This is true.
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i don’t believe i’ve ever encountered any Christian teaching, Catholic or otherwise, that says that the utterance of a demon’s name releases them from their condemnation in Hell. if that works, then wouldn’t we just have to utter the names of all our ancestors to make sure they’re not in Hell?

furthermore, i don’t believe i’ve ever encountered a list of names of demons. there are a few mentioned in the Bible (Baal, Azazel), but none of these were used in the Harry Potter series. what are your sources?

and if someone burning Harry Potter paraphernalia heard hideous laughter while they burned, that is a personal experience i will not put into question. however, regardless of its veracity, i don’t see how that proves that Harry Potter is “evil.”

just trying to keep a level head. i’m not a fan of Harry Potter, though i’ve seen the first two movies. i don’t believe it has anything counter-productive to offer to society, at least not in the context of being a children’s book.
 
I’ve heard plenty of discussion on this topic, and was recommended a book by Michael O’Brien called “A Landscape with Dragons.” I just got it, but haven’t read it. But I hear he discusses fairy tails and fantasy liturature for children from a moral standpoint. He gives guidelines on how to judge such a book. One thing I know he discusses is symbolism used in fantasy, and how a book you’re reading portrays them (ie. traditionally evil symbols should represent evil, not good). What a great review from a person who hasn’t read the book 😉 , but if you’re looking for some guiding principles, many have recommended this book for that.

I myself don’t like Harry Potter for a few reasons:
  1. The existence of witchcraft as the main positive activity in the story makes witchcraft an intriguing thing. Since some really young kids are using it, I do worry that this harmless interest in these witches/wizards may lead to an interest in other books or ideas that are being heavily marketed to kids that are more harmful or may encourage the occult. Domino Effect.
  2. As already mentioned, there are situations where morality is confusing, and immoral behavior is rewarded, not punished. Probably ok if you can use the book to discuss these issues with your child, but again, it seems really young ones are reading it, so…
  3. At least in the first book, the only non-witches in the story are portrayed as obnoxious idiotic closed minded people. That hits a nerve - as I supect many see my traditional values in the same way. I hear there are some nicer non-wizards in following books, but I only read the first one.
Steve Wood’s website, dads.org has links to some material about Harry Potter (all against it).
 
Harry Potter is not good, decent Fantasy fiction. In fact, some of it isn’t fiction at all. Rowling researched witchcraft in depth to make her stories realistic. Some of the spells in the books are actual spells used by occult practitioners. A great book on the subject is Fatasy and Your Family by Richard Abanes. It’s by a Protestant, but has endorsments and quotations by Catholics such as Michael D. O’ Brien. He is a popular author of Catholic fiction. Abanes compares and contrasts Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. The differences are striking. Another reason to avoid it is the Vatican’s head expert on Satanism and the Occult (I don’t know his name) says Harry Potter is straight from the pit of hell. Strong words from someone in such a high position. I am one of the last people on earth who will rally against something, especially if Fundamentalists are decrying it at the moment. Call it pride if you wish, but I’m very slow to bring out the lighted torches and pitch forks.

I suggest anyone reading this to please read Fantasy and Your Family by Richard Abanes. Abanes is a lover of fantasy fiction. His book is intelligent, and his argument is well put together. Besides explaining why Harry Potter should be avoided, he defends Tolkien and his writings. Please read that book. Many well intentioned book lovers will say Potter is good reading. I used to be one of them. Sometimes decrying Fundamentalists get it right. They did on this one. For those that say Potter is okay because the good guys win in the end, I have one final statement. The main point of Lord of the Rings is you can’t do good by evil means. This is what happens in Harry Potter.
 
Both sides of this debate (for or against Harry Potter) seem to have good points, as I read through them. My son is two years old, and I will be having my second child at the end of August…so I’m sort of relieved that, perhaps, most of the ‘hype’ about Harry Potter will be mostly over by the time they would find any interest in the movies, or can read! Lucky me! I think the best course of action, considering both sides of the ‘opinion’ is to avoid Harry Potter, without being fanatical. (And this coming from someone who has always enjoyed and favored the Fantasy Fiction genre!). But I’d rather be safe than sorry when considering my children and their souls.
 
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Rae:
Both sides of this debate (for or against Harry Potter) seem to have good points, as I read through them. My son is two years old, and I will be having my second child at the end of August…so I’m sort of relieved that, perhaps, most of the ‘hype’ about Harry Potter will be mostly over by the time they would find any interest in the movies, or can read! Lucky me! I think the best course of action, considering both sides of the ‘opinion’ is to avoid Harry Potter, without being fanatical. (And this coming from someone who has always enjoyed and favored the Fantasy Fiction genre!). But I’d rather be safe than sorry when considering my children and their souls.
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I had to comment on this. Why not read the books yourself and then base your decision on your own thoughts?

You may not have noticed this, but not a single person who decried the HP books in this thread gave any concrete evidence for their claims. Not one. These books are decent fiction. Some people even think they’re Christian fiction, a la the Inklings. I happen to be one of them.

Which is why I care enough to post a response here - I’d hate to see sincere orthodox Catholics casting these books aside based on the types of negative reactions I’m reading here.

FWIW, I love Michael D. O’Brien, and I’ve read all of the Children of the Last Days books. I’ve also read A Landscape with Dragons, and I have to say I think he went a bit overboard.

Bottom line: Don’t judge the books based on a message board thread. Especially if you enjoy fantasy to begin with, go out and pick them up…read them for yourself and you’ll see what I’m talking about (or not, but at least you’ll be informed).
 
I don’t believe i’ve ever encountered any Christian teaching, Catholic or otherwise, that says that the utterance of a demon’s name releases them from their condemnation in Hell. if that works, then wouldn’t we just have to utter the names of all our ancestors to make sure they’re not in Hell?

Creeeepy! I just read, again, over some of the posts and found this…aren’t demons fallen angels (and not people)? Regardless, they (demons) certainly aren’t released from Hell (condemnation), but that they can and do interact with people on earth–just as Saints in heaven hear our prayers and intercede for us. And the fact that there has been biblical and Church-documented possessions, I wouldn’t doubt that ‘utterance of demon’s names’ could evoke a response. That’s why we are told to avoid the occult (and all the things associated with it like Tarot cards, the oiuja board, seances (spelling?) etc…

So, no…we can’t release anyone from hell, but we can certainly ‘contact’ them. Again…creepy!
 
King's X Fan:
I had to comment on this. Why not read the books yourself and then base your decision on your own thoughts?

You may not have noticed this, but not a single person who decried the HP books in this thread gave any concrete evidence for their claims. Not one. These books are decent fiction. Some people even think they’re Christian fiction, a la the Inklings. I happen to be one of them.

Which is why I care enough to post a response here - I’d hate to see sincere orthodox Catholics casting these books aside based on the types of negative reactions I’m reading here.

FWIW, I love Michael D. O’Brien, and I’ve read all of the Children of the Last Days books. I’ve also read A Landscape with Dragons, and I have to say I think he went a bit overboard.

Bottom line: Don’t judge the books based on a message board thread. Especially if you enjoy fantasy to begin with, go out and pick them up…read them for yourself and you’ll see what I’m talking about (or not, but at least you’ll be informed).
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I understand what you’re trying to say here, and I will always love fantasy fiction regardless; however, since this particular series of books evokes such responses, I cannot take the chance that they may be right.

I did see the first movie, and without taking it apart and analyzing it (easier to do with a book than a movie), I’d say it was harmless. However, I am still hesitant to give it my approval after looking at both sides of the issue.
 
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raggster:
i don’t believe i’ve ever encountered any Christian teaching, Catholic or otherwise, that says that the utterance of a demon’s name releases them from their condemnation in Hell. if that works, then wouldn’t we just have to utter the names of all our ancestors to make sure they’re not in Hell?

furthermore, i don’t believe i’ve ever encountered a list of names of demons. there are a few mentioned in the Bible (Baal, Azazel), but none of these were used in the Harry Potter series. what are your sources?

and if someone burning Harry Potter paraphernalia heard hideous laughter while they burned, that is a personal experience i will not put into question. however, regardless of its veracity, i don’t see how that proves that Harry Potter is “evil.”

just trying to keep a level head. i’m not a fan of Harry Potter, though i’ve seen the first two movies. i don’t believe it has anything counter-productive to offer to society, at least not in the context of being a children’s book.
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I agree. There are definitely some Puritanical vibes coming from this thread.

The Vatican has spoken about the Harry Potter books already… they see nothing wrong with them.
 
cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/07/entertainment/main539753.shtml

Vatican’s Wild About Harry

VATICAN CITY, Feb. 3, 2003

(AP) The Vatican is giving two thumbs up to the Harry Potter series.

The Rev. Don Peter Fleetwood told a Vatican press conference Monday that the good vs. evil plotlines of the best-selling books are imbued with Christian morals.

“I don’t see any, any problems in the Harry Potter series,” Fleetwood said.

Fleetwood was responding to questions following the release of a new Vatican document on the New Age phenomenon, which he helped draft as a member of the Pontifical Council for Culture.

Fleetwood was asked whether the magic embraced by Harry Potter and his pals at the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry was problematic for the Catholic Church. Some evangelical groups have condemned the series for glamorizing magic and the occult.

“I don’t think there’s anyone in this room who grew up without fairies, magic and angels in their imaginary world,” said Fleetwood, who is British. "They aren’t bad. They aren’t serving as a banner for an anti-Christian ideology.

“If I have understood well the intentions of Harry Potter’s author, they help children to see the difference between good and evil,” said Fleetwood, currently in the secretariat of the European Episcopal Conference. “And she is very clear on this.”

He said British author J.K. Rowling was “Christian by conviction, is Christian in her mode of living, even in her way of writing.”

Rowling’s four Harry Potter titles have sold an estimated 192 million copies worldwide, and the books have been published in at least 55 languages. The first two books have been adapted into hit movies and a fifth book in the series is due in bookstores June 21.

The books chronicle the fictional adventures of young Harry and his wizard pals at Hogwarts as they battle Harry’s nemesis, the evil sorcerer Voldemort.

Religious reaction to Harry Potter has been mixed. While there has been criticism from some evangelicals, ecumenical groups such as Churches Together in Britain and Ireland have echoed Fleetwood’s contention that the books illustrate important themes like the battle between good and evil.

© MMIII The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
 
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ralphinal:
My only real problem with the Harry Potter stuff was already mentioned earlier: poor moral examples. Harry breaks a major rule, but proves to be a star athlete, and he is not punished. An evil act can be committed for good (very problematic). Yes, at times there are consequinces for poor choices, but sometimes there are not. I like the fact that something is getting kids to read, but these issues are important to see. C. S. Lewis’ Narnia books are better for children. Tolkein never wrote his books for children. I read them when young, and it did not have the same effect that it had on me when I was older. Why? The sense of duty and self-sacrifice was not as well developed with in me and thus it was not seen in the characters. Both Lewis and Tolkien included images that are very Christian. They also had clear moral teachings with little room for ambiguity.
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Even within The Hobbit, etc…there is a grey area…from Bilbo stealing the ring, etc. Magical spells, etc…are incorporated within the story. Understand these novels are fiction.
 
King's X Fan:
I had to comment on this. Why not read the books yourself and then base your decision on your own thoughts?

You may not have noticed this, but not a single person who decried the HP books in this thread gave any concrete evidence for their claims. Not one. These books are decent fiction. Some people even think they’re Christian fiction, a la the Inklings. I happen to be one of them.

Which is why I care enough to post a response here - I’d hate to see sincere orthodox Catholics casting these books aside based on the types of negative reactions I’m reading here.

FWIW, I love Michael D. O’Brien, and I’ve read all of the Children of the Last Days books. I’ve also read A Landscape with Dragons, and I have to say I think he went a bit overboard.

Bottom line: Don’t judge the books based on a message board thread. Especially if you enjoy fantasy to begin with, go out and pick them up…read them for yourself and you’ll see what I’m talking about (or not, but at least you’ll be informed).
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Reading a book for yourself doesn’t necessarily make one an authority on it. Had I read Harry Potter before studying up on it I probably would have enjoyed it, and found it decent. Simply reading the series cannot enlighten someone to Rowlins’ motives, and her research in occult practices for the novels. I feel bad for anyone who says Potter is Christian literature. Tolkien was a Christian and had Christian intentions when writing LOR. Rowlings is not a Christian and her intentions were not to promote Christian morality like Tolkien did. In LOR Tolkien shows dangers of messing with dark powers. Rowlings encourages it. In LOR the Elves don’t really use magic. They use powers that are intrinsic to their nature. They don’t call on spirits, and cast spells. They use what their creator gave them. Tolkien had no intention of representing any actual magic/occult practices. He hated using the word “wizzard” because of the conotations it carries. He settled on that word though because it was the best to describe the characters like Gandalf. In fact, Gandalf and the others like him aren’t even humans. They are angelic beings temorarily embodied in human form. In other words, they are angels. Angels are expected to have powers humans don’t possess. In the Potter books, however the characters are human. Rowling’s magic isn’t fairy magic like Tolkien’s. The magic in her books is actual occult magic. She studied witchcraft, and occultism. She wanted her magic to be realistic. That’s the difference between her books and Tolkien’s.

Once again, simply reading a book can’t inform someone about the author’s intentions. So, “read it for yourself” doesn’t necessarily work here. Whether the good guys win in the end isn’t the most important thing. No good thing justifies evil means. The characters in Harry Potter use actual spells, and are comparable to actual occult practitioners. Tolkien’s characters are fable. Unless you actually believe in elves and hobbits.
 
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everlastingthur:
Reading a book for yourself doesn’t necessarily make one an authority on it. Had I read Harry Potter before studying up on it I probably would have enjoyed it, and found it decent. Simply reading the series cannot enlighten someone to Rowlins’ motives, and her research in occult practices for the novels. I feel bad for anyone who says Potter is Christian literature. Tolkien was a Christian and had Christian intentions when writing LOR. Rowlings is not a Christian and her intentions were not to promote Christian morality like Tolkien did. In LOR Tolkien shows dangers of messing with dark powers. Rowlings encourages it. In LOR the Elves don’t really use magic. They use powers that are intrinsic to their nature. They don’t call on spirits, and cast spells. They use what their creator gave them. Tolkien had no intention of representing any actual magic/occult practices. He hated using the word “wizzard” because of the conotations it carries. He settled on that word though because it was the best to describe the characters like Gandalf. In fact, Gandalf and the others like him aren’t even humans. They are angelic beings temorarily embodied in human form. In other words, they are angels. Angels are expected to have powers humans don’t possess. In the Potter books, however the characters are human. Rowling’s magic isn’t fairy magic like Tolkien’s. The magic in her books is actual occult magic. She studied witchcraft, and occultism. She wanted her magic to be realistic. That’s the difference between her books and Tolkien’s.

Once again, simply reading a book can’t inform someone about the author’s intentions. So, “read it for yourself” doesn’t necessarily work here. Whether the good guys win in the end isn’t the most important thing. No good thing justifies evil means. The characters in Harry Potter use actual spells, and are comparable to actual occult practitioners. Tolkien’s characters are fable. Unless you actually believe in elves and hobbits.
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Knowing one’s intentions and/or true interpretation behind a piece of art…is impossible without the commentary of the artist…most refrain…because they want the art to be open to interpretation…others will comment…

Rowling says…

“I wanted Harry Potter to be the classic struggle of good vs.evil.”

“If you’re writing about evil, you genuinely have a responsibility to show what that means and that’s why I’m writing them the way I’m writing them.” Her latest book is considered darker than the previous two, with characters called dementors, who suck up souls, and an evil wizard, Sirus Black, who tries to kill Potter. Yet she has already explained that in her next book a popular central character will die. “I am writing about someone who is evil. And rather than make him a pantomime villain, the only way to show how evil it is to take a life is to kill someone the reader cares about.”

Q: How do you come up with all the unique names, places and things that help make Harry Potter so intriguing?

A: Many of the names are invented, for example ‘Quidditch’ and ‘Muggle’. I also collect unusual names, and I take them from all sorts of different places. ‘Hedwig’ was a saint, ‘Dumbledore’ is an old English word for ‘bumble bee’ and ‘Snape’ is the name of a place in England.

Q: What books and authors did you read as a kid? Which are your biggest influences? I most admire E. Nesbit, Paul Gallico and C.S.Lewis. My favourite book as a child was ‘The Little White Horse’ by Elizabeth Goudge.

Fact: Rowling first received her idea for Harry Potter in 1990 while stuck on a train between London and Manchester. She worked for two years with Amnesty International before completing a course in teaching English as a foreign language in Manchester.

I’ve read all her interviews…her intentions seem noble…her art is decent.

Also…FYI, just because an author and/or artist professes to be Catholic and/or Christian…doesn’t mean their intentions are noble. Just because a politician says he/she is Catholic…doesn’t make them religious…ie John Kerry.

Plus…personally…I think an artist’s work should be judged on its own merit…you would be shocked as to the motivations and the private conduct of many of the artists from the Renaissance, etc.
 
Harry Potter isn’t going to be the end to Christianity as we know it. BUT!

Father Corapi describes the Devil as being a mean dog on a short leash (He was quoting some Saint). Then he adds “Guess how you keep from him getting you?”

Now I ask. Is Harry a step towards this nasty dog or a step away?

A child that is well versed in their faith probably won’t be affected much. The problem is this is where many Catholic youth are getting their ideas of spirituality.
 
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