Harry Potter?!?

[Tom317]

For me again I still find it interesting that he thinks that there is nothing wrong with Halloween and dressing up as a witch or devil and saying " If its just a game there is no harm in it"

How is this different than reading Harry Potter, or kids pretending to play witches etc, since if its just a game there is no harm in it…

I think if you read his views on HP, you will find that one of his problems with the work is its potential attachment to the occult. Reading HP books is NOT a three hour trick-or-treat event, it takes kids days, sometimes weeks, to read one book and that is then multiplied according to the number of HP books they read.

 

[Contarini]

I was NOT comparing porn to HP, I was merely trying to show that one does not have to read the books to know what is in them (just as one does not have to see porn to know what it is).

The entire argument that one must read HP to have an opinion is ridiculous and people who claim that would never apply that to themselves for a thousand other things (they just say that with HP to try to marginalize dissenters).

That’s not true. One can have an opinion in the sense that one can say “I would just as soon not bother with this, given what I know about it.” But one cannot have an informed opinion about matters concerning which there is dispute. For instance, you can’t have an informed opinion about the question of whether HP really teaches an ends-justifies-the-means philosophy. I think this is complete nonsense–the morality of the books is very good, in my opinion. Clearly others disagree. You will never know unless you read the books for yourself.

Reading trusted reviews and in-depth analysis of any work is quite sufficient. I have read hundreds of pages of reviews, articles and analysis on HP, from pro and con sources, and I have NO doubt that I know enough to stay away from the books.

You never need an excuse for not reading something, unless it’s the Bible or something of that nature. However, it seems silly to read hundres of pages about the books and not read at least one of them yourself. If you simply said “I’d rather not bother with them, given what I have heard,” that would be one thing. But if you are going to go to that much trouble, for goodness’ sake actually read one of the books!

I read the DaVinci Code precisely because I needed to have an opinion about it–for a while whenever I told someone that I studied the history of Christianity, they would start talking about the *Code. *However, I read it in a long airport layover without buying it from the bookstore (maybe unethical but I’m afraid I’ve done this sort of thing many times–I read fast). Of course you could check it out of the library. Not putting money in the author’s pocket and contributing to the book’s popularity is a valid concern, if you think you have reason to think the book is evil.

Edwin

 

[LJN21]

For me again I still find it interesting that he thinks that there is nothing wrong with Halloween and dressing up as a witch or devil and saying " If its just a game there is no harm in it"

How is this different than reading Harry Potter, or kids pretending to play witches etc, since if its just a game there is no harm in it…

That’s not the problem. The problem is its fiction that could tend to blur reality (set in present day London) and that it has elements of the occult in it that are completely unnecessary to the story line.

Personally I its harmless for adults and frankly its a really good story. No real reason not to read it and make your own opinion on the book. I do think it could open up a fascination in young kid towards things they don’t need to have anything to do with.

 

[estesbob]

Tom… for one thing, I do find estesbob a “serious” person. He and I have had the rounds. I am fortunate that I have read this thread and realize he has such a “wicked” sense of humor. Love ya Bob…mean it!

.

Thanks! I was readng the “Half Blood Prince” and mispronounced a spell-not only did it make me wicked but it changed my appearance.!!

http://www.armchairempire.com/images/action-figures/son-of-frankenstein.jpg

I am hoping the antidote will be given in the next Book!

 

[estesbob]

As for Bob, I agree he is serious, I have had plenty of conversations with him. I was asking him to be serious in this thread.

It is hard to remain serious when of the two primary posters opposing harry potter one has not read the books and the other opposes them because they teach dangerous incantations to children.

 

[LJN21]

It is hard to remain serious when of the two primary posters opposing harry potter one has not read the books and the other opposes them because they teach dangerous incantations to children.

Wow how about reading my post!

Thats not what I said at all.

 

[Tom317]

That’s not true. One can have an opinion in the sense that one can say “I would just as soon not bother with this, given what I know about it.” But one cannot have an informed opinion about matters concerning which there is dispute. For instance, you can’t have an informed opinion about the question of whether HP really teaches an ends-justifies-the-means philosophy. I think this is complete nonsense–the morality of the books is very good, in my opinion. Clearly others disagree. You will never know unless you read the books for yourself.

You never need an excuse for not reading something, unless it’s the Bible or something of that nature. However, it seems silly to read hundres of pages about the books and not read at least one of them yourself. If you simply said “I’d rather not bother with them, given what I have heard,” that would be one thing. But if you are going to go to that much trouble, for goodness’ sake actually read one of the books!

I read the DaVinci Code precisely because I needed to have an opinion about it–for a while whenever I told someone that I studied the history of Christianity, they would start talking about the *Code. *However, I read it in a long airport layover without buying it from the bookstore (maybe unethical but I’m afraid I’ve done this sort of thing many times–I read fast). Of course you could check it out of the library. Not putting money in the author’s pocket and contributing to the book’s popularity is a valid concern, if you think you have reason to think the book is evil.

Edwin

I disagree 100%, yet I will not convince you, son thanks for your reponse. IMO you are could not be more wrong.

 

[Tom317]

I am quite sure no-one here has ever used anaylsis of various works in order to write papers for high school or college, everyone here has ALWAYS read the entire original work and has never leaned on the trusted and respected views of others to help them understand a given work…I guess since I am in the company of perfection, and since I happily admit I am NOT perfect, I guess I stand corrected.

 

[LJN21]

It is hard to remain serious when of the two primary posters opposing harry potter one has not read the books and the other opposes them because they teach dangerous incantations to children.

The more I think about this the more irritated I become, that is about the most asinine comment ever. You really need a major wake up call if you do not think there isn’t occult activity in almost every school.

I said that exact words were not necessary for occult spells, I said that writing out the incantation was completely unnecessary to the story line and a major departure for fantasy in general. It links (along with the setting of the book) this work of fiction with the real world. I said this could be enough to give someone interest in things of the occult that might not other wise have been. Have you not ever met any 8-9th graders… yeah there not general imprisonable and wanting to fit in and be popular.

 

[Tom317]

I would like someone here, who loves HP, to explain something to me. Seriously explain this to me:

Why? Why do you bother to debate, argue, fight about books that you find good and that have been accepted by practically the entire reading globe? (I would think the massive numbers of HP lovers would be enough for you)

It makes no sense to me. HP readers won this battle ten years ago with the release of the first book, there was no looking back and hundreds of millions of people have read HP and the author is the richest author in history.

I would say my views, and the views of other dissenters, have had zero impact on HP and its readers. Further, people who read an exorcists views, or my views, or any other strong dissenters views, simply think we’re nuts. So again, why bother arguing about this, HP has won the battle bigtime. Why not look the other way when the very few of us try to put out a different view about HP? How does it hurt your life to see people think HP is potentially dangerous?

As for me and why I argue, it is simply because I believe the books are quite dangerous. Yet, in all the time and effort I and others have put into these talks, I have yet to know of even one person who did not read the book because of something I wrote. After all, if good Catholics refuse to listen to Rome’s Chief Exorcist, then they certainly will not listen to me. In the end, my hope is that perhaps one unknown person has avoided reading the books because of what have posted and wrote.

Do HP lovers argue just to argue?

 

[Tom317]

The more I think about this the more irritated I become, that is about the most asinine comment ever. You really need a major wake up call if you do not think there isn’t occult activity in almost every school.

I said that exact words were not necessary for occult spells, I said that writing out the incantation was completely unnecessary to the story line and a major departure for fantasy in general. It links (along with the setting of the book) this work of fiction with the real world. I said this could be enough to give someone interest in things of the occult that might not other wise have been. Have you not ever met any 8-9th graders… yeah there not general imprisonable and wanting to fit in and be popular.

All one has to do is see teens in full gothic mode to understand the situation.

 

[maria29]

That’s not the problem. The problem is its fiction that could tend to blur reality (set in present day London) and that it has elements of the occult in it that are completely unnecessary to the story line.

Personally I its harmless for adults and frankly its a really good story. No real reason not to read it and make your own opinion on the book. I do think it could open up a fascination in young kid towards things they don’t need to have anything to do with.

Look I love Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings (or any of Tolkien’s work for that matter) the King Arthur and the Merlin stories etc. I think most kids know that the Harry Potter books are made up. Do they act out the stories? Sure but thats what kids do. When I was growing up my girlfriends and I used to pretend we were She-Ra. We also used to play out the X-men cartoons too.

 

[LJN21]

Look I love Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings (or any of Tolkien’s work for that matter) the King Arthur and the Merlin stories etc. I think most kids know that the Harry Potter books are made up. Do they act out the stories? Sure but thats what kids do. When I was growing up my girlfriends and I used to pretend we were She-Ra. We also used to play out the X-men cartoons too.

Did ya miss the part where I said I’m a huge fantasy fan?

If you were a kid and someone came up to you and said “ya know… I can show you how to be She-Ra” what would you do?

 

[LJN21]

All one has to do is see teens in full gothic mode to understand the situation.

See I don’t necessarily have an issue with the Goths either, I tend to like the style. The majority of the ones I knew weren’t in to anything dangerous.

 

[maria29]

I would like someone here, who loves HP, to explain something to me. Seriously explain this to me:

Why? Why do you bother to debate, argue, fight about books that you find good and that have been accepted by practically the entire reading globe? (I would think the massive numbers of HP lovers would be enough for you)

It makes no sense to me. HP readers won this battle ten years ago with the release of the first book, there was no looking back and hundreds of millions of people have read HP and the author is the richest author in history.

I would say my views, and the views of other dissenters, have had zero impact on HP and its readers. Further, people who read an exorcists views, or my views, or any other strong dissenters views, simply think we’re nuts. So again, why bother arguing about this, HP has won the battle bigtime. Why not look the other way when the very few of us try to put out a different view about HP? How does it hurt your life to see people think HP is potentially dangerous?

As for me and why I argue, it is simply because I believe the books are quite dangerous. Yet, in all the time and effort I and others have put into these talks, I have yet to know of even one person who did not read the book because of something I wrote. After all, if good Catholics refuse to listen to Rome’s Chief Exorcist, then they certainly will not listen to me. In the end, my hope is that perhaps one unknown person has avoided reading the books because of what have posted and wrote.

Do HP lovers argue just to argue?

This statement for me is problematic. Is he the Chief Exorcist, yes, but he has no infalliablity on this issue. Does he have experience with it yes, but he seems to enjoy it a little too much which I found a little disconcerting.Before I met my DH he had been in seminary, and one of the classes they took was on exorcisms(they actually had the exorcist from one of the dioceses around the area teach it) and how if you are an exorcist you should hate your job, not revel in the power of it. The moment the job becomes an obession to you, it becomes dangerous.

I thought this statement of his was certainly interesting, especially that he is starting to disagree with the Vatican.
"The Vatican recently issued a new rite of exorcism which has not met with Father Amorth’s approval. “They say we cannot perform an exorcism unless we know for certain that the Evil One is present. That is ridiculous. It is only through exorcism that the demons reveal themselves. An unnecessary exorcism never hurt anybody.”

 

[maria29]

Did ya miss the part where I said I’m a huge fantasy fan?

If you were a kid and someone came up to you and said “ya know… I can show you how to be She-Ra” what would you do?

I would say great, but you do know its not real right?

 

[maria29]

Did ya miss the part where I said I’m a huge fantasy fan?

If you were a kid and someone came up to you and said “ya know… I can show you how to be She-Ra” what would you do?

I would say great, but you do know its not real right?

 

[LJN21]

I would say great, but you do know its not real right?

And they say yeah actually it is and can prove it to you.

 

[Tom317]

This statement for me is problematic. Is he the Chief Exorcist, yes, but he has no infalliablity on this issue. Does he have experience with it yes, but he seems to enjoy it a little too much which I found a little disconcerting.Before I met my DH he had been in seminary, and one of the classes they took was on exorcisms(they actually had the exorcist from one of the dioceses around the area teach it) and how if you are an exorcist you should hate your job, not revel in the power of it. The moment the job becomes an obession to you, it becomes dangerous.

I thought this statement of his was certainly interesting, especially that he is starting to disagree with the Vatican.
"The Vatican recently issued a new rite of exorcism which has not met with Father Amorth’s approval. “They say we cannot perform an exorcism unless we know for certain that the Evil One is present. That is ridiculous. It is only through exorcism that the demons reveal themselves. An unnecessary exorcism never hurt anybody.”

Hmm, interesting. I wonder when you go to a fallible doctor if you argue with his/her views.

The Chief Exorcist of Rome knows this subject intimately, far beyond anything we know----far beyond. If you want to read HP, then go for it. But, don’t marginalize the Chief Exorcist just because you don’t like his views.

I think the BIble must be wrong when it talks of the apostles casting out demons, since such actions just fall into myth.

 

[Tom317]

See I don’t necessarily have an issue with the Goths either, I tend to like the style. The majority of the ones I knew weren’t in to anything dangerous.

I have a huge problem with it, yet that is for another thread.