Has the #MeToo movement become a witch-hunt to a significant degree?

[casslean]

Do what my husband does - get another job. Sure, it’s hard, but it’s the right thing to do. Or let the man know you will not let the matter go. And then don’t.

Get another job? Do you know how many people live paycheque to paycheque? How do you propose they pay the bills in the meantime? And how do you recommend they walk immediately into that new job when they most assuredly don’t have references from their last employer?

And what does it matter if you don’t “let it go”? As this thread has shown, people are just going to accuse you of being an attention-seeking liar.

 

[DarkLight]

When people wait 10, 20, 30 years to bring something to light that a responsible adult would have brought to light immediately, they aren’t going to get much sympathy except from others like themselves. That’s just reality.

Or maybe they think your definition of what a “responsible adult” would do is more like the idea of what a couch observer would do. It’s always easy to lecture on what someone should have done in a situation you aren’t in. When you’re facing trauma and in a situation where you have good evidence that you’re going to be dismissed as a liar and a slut anyway, it makes sense not to come forward. Plus like people have mentioned, it’s the kind of thing that can be very confusing if you’re not taught about consent and harassment and all that - the blame gets in your head.

No, I don’t because it’s the right thing to do. My husband would never consider not voicing objections even though it could - and has - lost him big accounts. He does the morally right thing. Nothing baffling about it.

I’d say the fact that you’re talking about “big accounts” is what’s telling here Plenty of people have been in situations where getting another job wasn’t in the cards - that was the only place willing to hire, or willing to provide enough hours, or something. Or where being known as the person who accused someone of harassment is enough to get you blacklisted anyway because you “might lie about someone there too.”

 

[ConstantLearner]

That is one of my brothers. …gosh.

I know! Women post all sorts of trashy photos to my husband! They don’t care if he’s married, they don’t care about their own husbands and children etc.

I am not saying all women are like this, just that this kind of harassment isn’t confined to men against women. Sometimes it’s women harassing men.

 

[ATraveller]

This is also sad to spread about men…as if most were animals…

Sadly, overall most people believe self-restraint is an impossibility because of ‘biology’, the counterfeit version of it that many people believe in, and due to the pervasive hedonistic scripts that are everywhere. People are constantly told there’s nothing people can do and self-restraint is against nature.
The danger here is such a belief becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because many do in fact internalize them. I used the term ‘scripts’ because there’s a sociological concept of it. Basically, people are fed scripts and people ‘follow them’ like an actor does in a movie or play.

 

[ConstantLearner]

I’d say the fact that you’re talking about “big accounts” is what’s telling here Plenty of people have been in situations where getting another job wasn’t in the cards - that was the only place willing to hire, or willing to provide enough hours, or something. Or where being known as the person who accused someone of harassment is enough to get you blacklisted anyway because you “might lie about someone there too.”

I guess you just have to be willing to say “no” firmly and stick to it. Men will give up, unless they are genuine rapists. And if a man even touches you without your consent, it’s an assault and battery. Words alone constitute an assault. Men who are just looking for “a good time” soon learn to avoid the women they know have no tolerance, and word gets around.

 

[casslean]

I guess you just have to be willing to say “no” firmly and stick to it. Men will give up, unless they are genuine rapists. And if a man even touches you without your consent, it’s an assault and battery. Words alone constitute an assault. Men who are just looking for “a good time” soon learn to avoid the women they know have no tolerance, and word gets around.

Right. I have to consistently put myself in positions of personal, emotional, and financial strain and stress because I shouldn’t be allowed to just expect men to keep their hands to themselves.

And we wonder why people wait decades to come forward.

 

[ConstantLearner]

Sadly, overall most people believe self-restraint is an impossibility because of ‘biology’, the counterfeit version of it that many people believe in, and due to the pervasive hedonistic scripts that are everywhere. People are constantly told there’s nothing people can do and self-restraint is against nature.

Before I was engaged and then married I dated a man who told me it was “too hard” for a man to have restraint. He was always trying to touch me. I just kept telling him NO! and he got the message. I broke up with him for other reasons - just nothing in common, and I didn’t consider him a gentleman.

 

[ConstantLearner]

Right. I have to consistently put myself in positions of personal, emotional, and financial strain and stress because I shouldn’t be allowed to just expect men to keep their hands to themselves.

Tou have to let them know right away that you won’t tolerate that kind of behavior. Don’t wait to be harassed.

 

[casslean]

Tou have to let them know right away that you won’t tolerate that kind of behavior. Don’t wait to be harassed.

Where did they get the message that I would tolerate it?

This is why #metoo is needed. So no one starts with the assumption that it might be okay.

 

[ConstantLearner]

This is why #metoo is needed. So no one starts with the assumption that it might be okay.

So you think all men who harass read Twitter accounts and take them seriously?

I think the workplace climate is changing and tolerating less harassment.

 

[casslean]

So you think all men who harass read Twitter accounts and take them seriously?

I think many of them read the news. And if causes even one to stop because he might be held accountable for his actions, it is worth it.

 

[graciew]

unless they are genuine rapists.

Here is something sensitive too. And very tragic . Some are predators literally looking for victims.
And many followed by death.
Here there is this movement " Not one( woman) less".And for a very good reason,unfortunately.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

There is a valid reason why more modest attire is preferred by fathers of daughters.

If that’s the thought process then what those dads are saying is that they hope is someone else’s daughter is raped.

 

[DarkLight]

I guess you just have to be willing to say “no” firmly and stick to it. Men will give up, unless they are genuine rapists. And if a man even touches you without your consent, it’s an assault and battery. Words alone constitute an assault. Men who are just looking for “a good time” soon learn to avoid the women they know have no tolerance, and word gets around.

…I have no idea what you’re talking about here. The lesson I learned is that a firm “no” just means “keep trying to persuade me.” I’ve dealt with plenty of men for whom trying to get me to change my mind was a challenge. “No” just meant “try again in a few days.” Employment is also an issue - many women report being fired after rejecting advances.

#metoo isn’t actually aimed at those men. It’s aimed at the men who would never do something like that themselves, but are skeptical that it can be a real issue affecting women. It’s aimed to send them the message that it’s a real issue for women and that if they are getting reports that a woman is being harassed, especially from multiple women about the same guy, it’s worth acting on.

There’s a theory from a (very not CAF safe) blog called the “missing stair” theory. Basically it’s like living in a house with a missing stair. Everyone who lives there just gets used to the idea that you have to jump over the one missing stair, and tries to remember to warn new people to jump over the missing stair - and for some reason no one thinks to say, hey, why don’t we fix this? Groups of people can be like that. You get cases where everyone is saying, this guy is harassing women, and somehow it never occurs to the guys that maybe that means they should stop hanging out with a guy who harasses women, or keeping him at a job, or whatnot.

 

[ATraveller]

Before I was engaged and then married I dated a man who told me it was “too hard” for a man to have restraint. He was always trying to touch me. I just kept telling him NO! and he got the message. I broke up with him for other reasons - just nothing in common, and I didn’t consider him a gentleman.

Assuming he truly believed that, he got a good dose of reality. If not and was being manipulative, he learned women won’t put up with it.

---

I also mentioned scripts in that post. I would add sociologists make it clear scripts can be overridden.

 

[graciew]

I do not want to answer for Theo,but girls (and boys for the case,) move more about in group and we have been constantly trying to help them all as a bunch. It isn’ t their fault they are young and pretty or attractive,just some reality check that these things are happening .
So we try and throw some tips,go and stay in group,and any sort of proactive advice without getting to scare them to panick of course
Cell phones have helped a lot in that sense.
And we love them all,some have been around in our homes for a long time. “Daughters of the heart”,you know.

 

[Lea101]

You have said pretty tone-deaf things about this issue here, which either led me to believe you simply cannot relate to their pain or you simply do not know enough and cannot be bothered to evaluate your views. (see: 'Truama is no excuse for a grown man/woman not to immediately report harassment or abuse)

Nobody is saying that waiting forever is ideal.

Literally all of us would prefer it if victims feel empowered enough to step up immediately, which the general movement is aiming for (eg look at the Time’s Up movement that is based on MeToo)

But like we said before (which you ignored), it’s very unrealistic given the state they’re in, the fears they have etc. If you read up on this topic, you would be familiar with this. But alas. Anyway, if you think the person is lying sole based on the timing and not what the person is actually saying, the problem lies with you, my friend, for relying on weird benchmarks (which professionals will easily refute) rather than the details of the case itself.

 

[DarkLight]

The worry for a lot of us is when it gets flipped around, or when it gets to where we don’t have a lot of practical options that are “safe.” I’ve definitely had people whose first reaction would be to go over the details of what I was wearing with a fine-toothed comb, even when prior to finding out about the incident they had no reason to believe I was immodest. I’ve also had various points in my life where if I wanted to go to work or get to and from class, walking around late at night by myself was the only option, unless I was planning on taking a cab every day.

 

[ConstantLearner]

Literally all of us would prefer it if victims feel empowered enough to step up immediately, which the general movement is aiming for (eg look at the Time’s Up movement that is based on MeToo)

I rally don’t think “literally all of [you]”…

 

[Lea101]

I can remember a conversation between one of the posters here a while back…he said it was necessary for us to ask about a victim’s past sexual history to find out if she’s lying or not. That bruises and signs of attack could be due to BDSM. Oh jeez.