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ConstantLearner
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I do not know what he did. He appears guilty to me, but I have not seen or heard all the evidence so am in no position to judge.
Has the #MeToo movement become a witch-hunt to a significant degree?
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Bruised_Reed
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Of course it does to you.
Ah, there it is. You think this is about intimidation. If it was, you’d be right, it wouldn’t make make sense. I can’t figure out how the intimidation thing is supposed to work though.
And the hashtag is to raise awareness so victims know that they aren’t alone. That’s how it started years ago, a woman wanting someone to know that they were not alone. I rarely share my witness, I want to more often than I do. I’m not looking for attention but solidarity.
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ConstantLearner
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Why do you need solidarity?
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pnewton
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I do not think kissing requires a verbal question and answer. The difference is one is casual, even common, depending on the culture. As someone pointed out, maybe the culture has changed. In the past, people who dated did not discuss what sort of affection they were about to express at every juncture. I still find that bizarre. The other (sex) is always a matter of physical unity. Period.
Ask a priest if he thinks their different.
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Theo520
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This is illogical. Drugging someone must be a felony offense in and of itself. Any subsequent action would only add to the crime.
Your clothes comment didn’t make sense, he drank it by accident, he wasn’t targeted for assault. People would have the same reaction if he was a girl given the circumstances.
Digging deeper, are you saying what a person is wearing does not give off non-verbal cues to other people? I strongly disagree with you. If either a man or women is dressed in a sexualized way, they are more likely to see passes thrown their direction. Clothing and mannerisms does have an impact in the dating game, but nothing justifies assault.
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Edmundus1581
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Absolutely. And for many of us the trauma has no possibility of ever being redressed. Obviously, if one has the opportunity at the time, or the opportunity comes up later, then one can act, but for those of us unable to act we attempt to get on with our own lives, do the best we can for our children (if relevant), be decent, honest, cheerful people, and, if we have a faith, keep turning it to God. Every time I go to confession I am reminded that the power in God’s mercy is greater than any human power.phil19034:
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We are ALL traumatized by certain things, in childhood and adulthood. If we aren’t, we are machines, not humans.
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It also helps to remember that much worse things have happened to other people (and families), and continue to happen every day.
I am reminded of a moment in a homily soon after my divorce, and its traumatic impact on myself and our children (ex-wife was having a blast!). The priest mentioned as an aside - “Everyone will have something they can’t cope with - divorce, the death of a child, poverty, injustice. If it hasn’t happened to you yet, it will”. My eldest daughter turned to me and and smiled knowingly.
Easy to say. Hard to do.
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starshiptrooper
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Xantippe was the one who claimed it was about intimidation, not me.
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Bruised_Reed
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Do you think adults should force children to gives hugs and kisses to others when they don’t want to? I think this is common in many cultures but we know that the child’s agency needs to be respected early on, that his or her “no” means something. It’s one of the first lessons of many.
So if we are teaching children that they can opt out of physical affection why do adults need to dodge unwanted kisses nearly falling out of a car (it wasn’t moving), because, gross.
So if we are teaching children that they can opt out of physical affection why do adults need to dodge unwanted kisses nearly falling out of a car (it wasn’t moving), because, gross.
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ConstantLearner
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Absolutely right! A very wise post! Thank you.
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Lea101
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I remember the first few tweets of #metoo. The goal back then was to simply show how common women faced such instances. I can remember a tweet saying something along the lines of ‘if we tell our experiences with the hashtag, maybe it’ll show men that this isn’t just a problem in Hollywood and they should help us’…something like that.
Hence the tweets without the abuser’s name.
Seems fine if that’s the goal, because they clearly do not want to pursue this any further, but in the long term I would love to see people holding their abusers accountable. I’m sure this movement have encouraged some, but we have a long way to go.
Hence the tweets without the abuser’s name.
Seems fine if that’s the goal, because they clearly do not want to pursue this any further, but in the long term I would love to see people holding their abusers accountable. I’m sure this movement have encouraged some, but we have a long way to go.
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Lea101
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Again, either you have 0 empathy or you are simply ignorant about what happens to someone during a traumatic experience (especially rape, where a human’s basic need for autonomy is taken away).
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Bruised_Reed
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Which part? My post is a mess.
And? I don’t disagree. What I was leaving room for in my reply to SST is that he wasn’t drugged but got passed-out drunk by his own volition. Either way there is a crime of theft. He should not feel like he can’t report that for some reason.
Nope. Read too many comments, replies, heard it with my own ears, etc in which that does happen.
Not saying that at all but I will say that a lot of people are willfully ignorant about these clues.
I can only recall one time seeing a man dressed sexily enough that it inspired a reaction from me. But since he was on a stage and clearly enjoying the reaction I’m thinking I didn’t violate his sensibilities.
OTOH look up websites/projects with photos if what women were wearing when they were assaulted the videos recording the non-stop harrassment of a woman walking down the street. Many if the earliest stories shared to the #metoo movement were from women who as children received comments from creepy men.
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Lea101
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Just had another thought to add regarding the weird idea that real victims come forth earlier…
Well, they don’t and it’s unrealistic to expect them to if you’re not giving them strong emotional support and they’re not hearing stupid statements about victim blaming (eg if she was really wearing skimpy clothing and she hears comments like this from the people she knows…). Also they’re hardly willing to come out if the abuser is someone in a higher position because they might perceive they won’t get any support blah blah blah
Personally I didn’t even tell my family when a guy followed me home (I had to run and hide). My sister was unwilling to tell my dad and file a report when someone sexually assaulted her. My friend was molested as a child and she still doesn’t want to tell her family about it. Using a weird benchmark to tell if they’re lying or not is a really dumb move imo. Best if we look at the individual cases and learn as much information we can get before calling the victim a liar.
I can see the metoo movement attempting to address this and they are actually doing something besides most people complaining about the ineffectiveness of the movement. I don’t think this movement is without flaws of course (ie I don’t believe that every single claim was truthful)
Well, they don’t and it’s unrealistic to expect them to if you’re not giving them strong emotional support and they’re not hearing stupid statements about victim blaming (eg if she was really wearing skimpy clothing and she hears comments like this from the people she knows…). Also they’re hardly willing to come out if the abuser is someone in a higher position because they might perceive they won’t get any support blah blah blah
Personally I didn’t even tell my family when a guy followed me home (I had to run and hide). My sister was unwilling to tell my dad and file a report when someone sexually assaulted her. My friend was molested as a child and she still doesn’t want to tell her family about it. Using a weird benchmark to tell if they’re lying or not is a really dumb move imo. Best if we look at the individual cases and learn as much information we can get before calling the victim a liar.
I can see the metoo movement attempting to address this and they are actually doing something besides most people complaining about the ineffectiveness of the movement. I don’t think this movement is without flaws of course (ie I don’t believe that every single claim was truthful)
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casslean
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Right. Let’s go back to the “good old days”, when husbands couldn’t rape their wives, or when what a woman was wearing determined whether or not she was raped, or when women were hired to make a place “look good” and then fired when they had the audacity to get married and/or pregnant.
And while we’re at it, let’s go ahead and pretend that it wasn’t generations of men and their “dumb ideas” about women that got us here today.
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Theo520
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Yea, the ‘clothes’ comment has been used as an excuse by some people, I didn’t mean to defend them.
My perception though is some go to the opposite direction and say attire doesn’t or shouldn’t matter. Nothing justifies assault but attire will change the number of passes thrown. There is a valid reason why more modest attire is preferred by fathers of daughters.
My perception though is some go to the opposite direction and say attire doesn’t or shouldn’t matter. Nothing justifies assault but attire will change the number of passes thrown. There is a valid reason why more modest attire is preferred by fathers of daughters.
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casslean
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Will it? Yes. Should it? No.
I’m sorry, but the whole attire argument is ridiculous. I see good-looking, well-dressed men every day. I’ve managed to go through my whole life without sexually harassing any of them.
It’s called practicing self-control and being respectful.
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Theo520
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If it didn’t have an impact, people wouldn’t dress a specific way. Wishing it didn’t have an impact just ignores biology. And practiced restraint is more about mental maturity, something I fully admit a large number of men lack.
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casslean
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Sorry, willpower and restraint are not about mental maturity. I can teach a four-month old puppy not to touch a steak sitting on the floor. And in a lot less time than this thread has consumed.
What it takes is a willingness to accept responsibility for one’s own actions. Blaming the victim because they had the audacity to dress well shows an unwillingness to take responsibility.
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TheAmazingGrace
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Who are these accusers? From whence is this epidemic of false accusations coming?
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ConstantLearner
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Well, that’s an ad hominem attack if I ever saw one! LOL I either have zero empathy or I’m ignorant!
I can assure you, I am neither. But I do not take something at face value when a person waits 20, 30 years to bring it up and especially when it’s going to impact the life of the accused in an extraordinary way.
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