Has the #MeToo movement become a witch-hunt to a significant degree?

[pnewton]

In other words, “I can do anything I want. If you accuse me of assaulting you, I will accuse you of lying, because people will automatically assume your motives for telling the whole world you were sexually assaulted and my possible motives for denying it carry the exactly the same weight because people think the two scenarios have the same likelihood.”

I do not know where you learned English, but this is the worst misrepresentation of what someone else has said I have seen yet here. Specifically:

I did not say, “I can do anything I want.”
I did not say, “I will accuse you of lying because…” anything. The justification to accuse someone of lying is the same justification to accuse someone of anything; because it is true.
I made no statement about “weight.” As has been pointed out, this is not a court of law so weight is nothing more than an individual decides to give.

Going that way, men do not need to be too concerned about committing a sexual assault in private, provided that it does not cause bruising. That sounds like a very low bar to me

I am suggesting the same standard (bar) be used for all. Rape is traumatic. Being accuses of being a sexual predator is also traumatic. If one is a sexual predator, then it is a just trauma. If one is not, he should have the same ability to publicly state that as the one who said he was. The exact same. Women can be as calloused as any man.

 

[pnewton]

I would really rather hear that unmarried people have to be extremely careful about who they are sexually active with, since they have to develop a trust that the person has the integrity to not make up any false reports about what went on between them sexually.

Hmm. Would you accept someone saying that unmarried people have to be extremely careful about who they are romantically involved with, or friendly to, since they have to develop a trust that the person has the integrity not to attempt to force themselves onto them? Of course not. This is too close to the the “she was asking for it” stuff. It sounds no better saying "he was asking for it.

 

[PetraG]

I do not know where you learned English, but this is the dumbest misrepresentation of what someone else has said I have seen yet here.

I’m done. Bye.

 

[Maxirad]

When asked on Facebook if he thought the #MeToo movement had become a witch-hunt, Hollywood actor A Martinez (Santa Barbara, Longmire) responded by saying the following:

No, I don’t, [name redacted]. I think the #MeToo movement is one of the best things that’s happened in my lifetime. The people who are telling their stories are not hunting witches. They’re hunting a world where bullies cannot get away with cruelty because they have more power than the victims. And anybody who is calling this movement a witch-hunt is immediately someone I cease to trust.

 

[Xantippe]

That was not the impression I got, though I will let him clarify if he wishes. For me, I think there should be a pass for one with whom one has some sort of relationship that might be interpreted as romantic. Than a pass should be given and a little charity to ease the embarrassment of the male or female that misunderstood. Callousness can take more than one form.

That might have been enough 20 or 30 years ago, but nowadays a lot of women expect to be asked first.

 

[Xantippe]

If the women posting to the MeToo movement is okay, which I agree it is, then it should be equally acceptable for men to post when a woman has falsely accused them of similar acts with the same amount of evidence, which is zero. One cannot be wrong and the other right.

They’re free to, but it might give more publicity to a false accusation.

 

[Theo520]

Or, you know, he could use his words and ASK.

That may be the method going forward, it wasn’t in years past.

 

[Xantippe]

Do you think “We Are All Go Until You Yell Stop” is a metric that anyone on this forum ought to approve of in the least?

Yeah.

That’s a default yes standard, which is a very peculiar one for serious Christians to adopt.

 

[Xantippe]

What we cannot have is a standard by which women are assumed to be pathological liars until there is evidence otherwise or, at the other extreme, the standard by which it is assumed that no one could ever have a motive for lying about being sexually assaulted.

Right.

You have to demonstrate that the person is a liar about other things, not just assume that because it’s a rape accusation, it is automatically a lie.

There’s a scene from The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe where Professor Kirk is explaining this to Peter and Susan. They believe that Lucy must be lying because she said something unlikely that was contradicted by their brother Edmund. Professor Kirk tells the children that Lucy is either lying, crazy or telling the truth. And if she isn’t crazy and she is generally more truthful than her brother, then Peter and Susan need to accept the possibility that she is telling the truth.

(I would footnote this to add that a) mentally ill does not necessarily mean untruthful and b) a mentally ill person could still be sexually assaulted, but the point is that in the absence of any prior concerns about the speaker’s truthfulness or grasp on reality, we should believe her.)

 

[pnewton]

That might have been enough 20 or 30 years ago, but nowadays a lot of women expect to be asked first.

I find that surprising, especially as the culture seems more relaxed with such casualness. I mean, I wish we were getting more puritanical, but I do not see it. Is this universal, do you think? Any females here ever asked a male date if she could kiss, or visa versa? Any one else surprised by this?

Back decades ago, one did not go out on a date without either some expectation of exploring a romantic relationship, or stating up front it was only as friends. If one did not want to kiss, that was usually stated before the awkward time came.

 

[Xantippe]

I find that surprising, especially as the culture seems more relaxed with such casualness. I mean, I wish we were getting more puritanical, but I do not see it. Is this universal, do you think? Any females here ever asked a male date if she could kiss, or visa versa? Any one else surprised by this?

I don’t think it is universal even among “young people today,” but the needle has moved, and a large minority of women now expect to be asked. So it’s safer to ask.

 

[Xantippe]

Another idea that “young people today” have is enthusiastic consent. Here’s an explanation from a secular site:

What is consent?

Consent is how we make sure that people feel safe, comfortable and respected! It’s a mutual, ongoing and enthusiastic agreement without threats or head games. Listening when someone says “yes” or “no”…

www.yesmeansyes.com

Again, this isn’t universal, but these ideas are in the water now, and I think they have a lot of merit.

When I was in college back in the 90s, “no means no” was pretty revolutionary at the time (and there were all sorts of dumb arguments against it), but this is one step forward from that.

 

[Theo520]

I wholeheartedly agree with the direction, but it’s pretty darn vague to say they must be equally ‘enthusiastic’ as a requirement. Far better to stick to a clear verbal “Yes” and not get caught up in “I said yes but I wasn’t really into it, I felt obligated”.

Remember a lot of issues arise simply because we aren’t thinking clearly in the midst of what one party might feel is a mutually passionate encounter. Clear and definitive signals are needed, not another level of vagueness on interpretation.

If someone isn’t enthusiastic, they need to recognize their feelings and express a clear “no”.

 

[phil19034]

I don’t know if it as become a witch hunt yet, but I fear that it might.

I do believe that radical feminists will use this to their advantage.

Also, I am afraid of a society that uses the court of public opinion to punish someone who cannot be punished in a court of law due to lack of evidence, circumstantial evidence, or statute of limitations

 

[Bruised_Reed]

find that surprising, especially as the culture seems more relaxed with such casualness.

You’re kind of equating getting consent with being formal (vs. casual.) A lot of people think kissing, putting their hands on a woman without her consent is acceptable but then draw the line at sex. Do you think sex requires consent? Why that and not kissing?

 

[casslean]

If someone isn’t enthusiastic, they need to recognize their feelings and express a clear “no”.

If you genuinely care for someone, you need to be alert to how they are feeling. If they aren’t enthusiastic, that duty of care would say you should err on the side of caution and stop.

 

[Theo520]

If you genuinely care for someone, you need to be alert to how they are feeling. If they aren’t enthusiastic, that duty of care would say you should err on the side of caution and stop.

Your “IF” statement disqualified your response from being relevant to the problem.
This problem rarely arises between a caring and loving couple, they already get your position and know how to accurately read one another.

We need guidance that works when you don’t know the person deeply, guidance that will reduce harm even when both parties met at a bar and perhaps just see sex as recreational. For this the consent must be clear, not vague and open to interpretation. Judging the level of ‘enthusiasm’ is always going to be extremely vague but learning to say or hear “no” is clear and explicit.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I don’t know if it as become a witch hunt yet, but I fear that it might

I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the irony of calling the #metoo movement a “witch hunt.”

I do believe that radical feminists will use this to their advantage.

Radical feminists or just feminists? And what do you fear exactly?

Also, I am afraid of a society that uses the court of public opinion to punish someone who cannot be punished in a court of law due to lack of evidence, circumstantial evidence, or statute of limitations

Well, then maybe victims needed to be listened to and supported in the first place. This has been going on for millenia; it wasn’t invented by Weinstein. No one should be surprised that the witches are pushing back. And a reminder: The majority saying “me too” are not calling out their abusers by name or even identifying themselves. I think the scope of this is what is making people uncomfortable. I don’t trust men who aren’t more angry at the number of victims and kind if abuse but worried about rare false accusations. The numbers on the poll tell me a lot about Catholic men and it ain’t good.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

I don’t know if it as become a witch hunt yet, but I fear that it might

I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the irony of calling the #metoo movement a “witch hunt.”

I do believe that radical feminists will use this to their advantage.

Radical feminists or just feminists? And what do you fear exactly?

Also, I am afraid of a society that uses the court of public opinion to punish someone who cannot be punished in a court of law due to lack of evidence, circumstantial evidence, or statute of limitations

Well, then maybe victims needed to be listened to and supported in the first place. This has been going on for millenia; it wasn’t invented by Weinstein. No one should be surprised that the witches are pushing back. And a reminder: The majority saying “me too” are not calling out their abusers by name or even identifying themselves. I think the scope of this is what is making people uncomfortable. I don’t trust men who aren’t more angry at the number of victims and kind if abuse but worried about rare false accusations. The numbers on the poll tell me a lot about Catholic men and it ain’t good.

OK, time out.

1. I voted “NO” on the pool.
2. I agree with everything you said about victims, and I find the numbers to be horrific.
3. I wrote “radical feminists” and that’s what I meant. I’m referring to the ones who don’t want equal rights, but want to punish men.
4. regarding the irony of the term “witch hunt” … well, if there is a synonym for “witch hunt” I will gladly use it.

God bless.

 

[ConstantLearner]

I think CAF has a lot of MRAs/Red Pill people who are invested in the idea that women are usually lying about sexual harassment and assault.

Do not know what MRAs and Red Pill people are. Sorry.