Has the #Metoo movement made men more unsure how to relate with women?

[PetraG]

I didn’t say Gods laws are arbitrary. But in today’s society it’ll harder to find a spouse by abiding by them.

What I meant by the comment is that the decision to be single or married ought to depend on what you believe your vocation is, not a fear of commitment based on the spectre of the societal tolerance of those who unilaterally file for a legal no-fault divorce.

Aziz IS single and yet seeking the privileges reserved for the married. Don’t use him as an example of the hazards of trying to find a spouse. There is no evidence he was looking for one.

 

[SacredHeartBassist]

The point I was making is that there are consequences to misreading signals. His case was very sexual. But there can be ramifications to simply asking out a coworker

 

[SacredHeartBassist]

The reality is we all have to listen to our conscience and mine tells me it’s not worth it. It’s better to be alone

 

[PetraG]

The reality is we all have to listen to our conscience and mine tells me it’s not worth it. It’s better to be alone

As St. Paul put it, marriage is a good option for those on fire. He pointed out that the worldly anxiety does not end when someone gets married. He would agree that if you can remain moral without marrying, that is an excellent option.

 

[Xantippe]

Aziz IS single and yet seeking the privileges reserved for the married. Don’t use him as an example of the hazards of trying to find a spouse. There is no evidence he was looking for one.

That is an excellent point.

 

[Xantippe]

The point I was making is that there are consequences to misreading signals. His case was very sexual. But there can be ramifications to simply asking out a coworker

If it’s a job job, there’s little harm, but if it’s a career-and-benefits position, a lot more caution is in order. Look into company rules, make sure she’s not your subordinate, not somebody you have to have a lot of contact with, etc.

But if it’s not a practicing Catholic woman, why would you be asking her out at all?

 

[Xantippe]

The reality is we all have to listen to our conscience and mine tells me it’s not worth it. It’s better to be alone

Is that your conscience or depression?

I’m not telling you you have to ask women out, but a lot of times, the sort of thing you’re saying tends to come from a place of depression and despair, which is not spiritual health.

In today’s day and age it’s better to be single than married because it’ll likely end in divorce.

That’s not really what the stats say. You can look them up.

The Divorce-Proof Marriage - The Atlantic

There are a lot of demographic factors that greatly reduce the divorce rate: college educated, good income, Catholic, Catholic married to Catholic, not too young/not too old, etc. A lot of this stuff is under your control.

Neither person was describing a way anyone with any sense looks for a spouse or acts if they want to be seen as marriage material!

Yeah. There’s really nothing in common between Aziz and Grace’s bad date and any first date I’ve ever gone on aside from maybe eating dinner.

That is why I would caution Catholic men not to judge the reception they are likely to get by the receptions reported by aggressive men who don’t respect women enough to establish something like real personal relationship before pursuing a sexual relationship. They are not operating anything like you do! You are not going to run into the same problems with women that they do!!

Exactly.

 

[Xantippe]

Or they just never got any offers. Not that I would know…

I know that when I was a young woman (a little younger than you), I seemed to be more or less invisible to guys. Nowadays, I suspect that my wardrobe of FLDS-escape type clothes did not do me any favors–if I showed you my clothes from that era, you’d laugh and laugh.

With a bit of time, nicer clothes, nicer hair and makeup and a bit more social self-confidence, the guys started appearing.

Plus, you’re working at a school. Unless you’re Florida Woman, that’s as good as a convent with a 10 foot wall. (I worked two years at a Russian school in the Peace Corps after college and didn’t date at all and didn’t get any offers, either, unless we’re counting the foot-loving pervert that I once encountered while changing shoes in public after work.)

I also think that some people aren’t destined to date a whole lot, just because they’re a bit unusual and won’t have a lot of interest from people who aren’t a good match. My dating career was (compared to a lot of people) pretty brief. Before I met my husband at 22, there was roughly a one year period of me dating (from 18.5 to almost 20) a grand total of three guys. That yielded: one coffee date, one month of dating and one roughly half a year period of dating, which lots of marriage proposals from the last guy. So, I dated only four guys total and two of them wanted to marry me. And I’m not exactly Natalie Portman. You might be the same way.

 

[PetraG]

Yeah. There’s really nothing in common between Aziz and Grace’s bad date and any first date I’ve ever gone on aside from maybe eating dinner.

I would hope that no fellow posting here approves of even a pagan pursuing a sexual relationship before the charge for his first dinner out with his “romantic interest” even showed up on his VISA statement. It is not just outside the Gospel but even outside the realm of the most obvious common sense.

 

[Xantippe]

I would hope that no fellow posting here approves of even a pagan pursuing a sexual relationship before the charge for his first dinner out with his “romantic interest” even showed up on his VISA statement. It is not just outside the Gospel but even outside the realm of the most obvious common sense.

Come to think of it, one of the things Aziz Ansari would have perhaps discovered if he’d paced himself a little would be the odds of their evening together turning up on the internet in excruciating detail–something that a public figure should care a lot about.

Just a little bit more patience and getting-to-know-you could have spared both of them a bad date and Ansari a lot of embarrassment.

 

[PetraG]

Come to think of it, one of the things Aziz Ansari would have perhaps discovered if he’d paced himself a little would be the odds of their evening together turning up on the internet in excruciating detail–something that a public figure should care a lot about.

Just a little bit more patience and getting-to-know-you could have spared both of them a bad date and Ansari a lot of embarrassment.

It is unfortunate, but the famous have a rough time of it when it comes to interpersonal relations.

 

[BoyGenius]

You inject abortion into the middle of a thread that has nothing to do with abortion

The thread is about a metoo campaign mainly involving women who suffer under sexual harassment. There are among those women, who support abortion, that call out the wrongs of sexual harassment, but nonetheless judge it is okay to abort a chlid (i…e in utero.) Thus, it does call to question the judgement, mind, and character of those women, since they do not apply the Golden Rule to the unborn child.

The other relation is sexual harassment (not saying it doesn’t affect men also. But it has mainly affected women) is a woman’s issue. And so is the dilemma of being pro-choice, has become mainly an issue affecting woman. So it does relate by the judgement, mind, character, and will of women who support abortion (i.e. inappropriately touching the body of an unborn human being’s life to death), but nonetheless do not want any action which violates the dignity and respect to themselves. Which for they do not warrant for the unborn. So that does relate by that pool of the population who contradict the Golden Rule. Wherefore that does involve the MeToo campaign.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Sounds like an excuse to dismiss hardships other people suffer. You wanna talk about abortion? Make an abortion thread.

 

[BoyGenius]

Sounds like an excuse to dismiss hardships other people suffer. You wanna talk about abortion? Make an abortion thread.

Sexual harassment relates to abortion, because it is mainly an issue that affects women. That’s one correlation. The other correlation, as was what was pointed out. Is that women who support abortion also speak out against sexual harassment. And thus brings into question of those women who believe the Golden Rule applies only to being sexually harassed, but not to the unborn. And thus pointed that they do themselves a dis-service. Because, allowing for something so alienating and evil to a human being is a contradiction to the Golden Rule. Which is why sexual harassment is wrong. Again, as I have illustrated (sexual harassment) violates the dignity and respect owed to all person’s (particularly to women.)

Which is the correlation of the two.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Sexual harassment relates to abortion, because it is mainly issue that affects women. That’s one correlation. The other correlation, as was what was pointed out. Is that women who support abortion also speak out against sexual harassment.

Invalid. I’m pro-life, and I’m against sexual harassment. Your argument doesn’t help me at all.

 

[BoyGenius]

Invalid. I’m pro-life, and I’m against sexual harassment. Your argument doesn’t help me at all.

The topic, unless I am mistaken, was a forum topic. I expressed a contradiction among women who support abortion, but yet follow the MeToo campaign. It was a general view. Which about every topic on a forum opens a question to: the public.

I don’t think the topic specified who in the MeToo campaign this applied to (i.e. pro-life or non-pro-life.) But to the general public. And that is inclusive to those who support abortion. So, do you think in a forum soneone doesn’t have the right to call out that apparent contradiction of a certain group people in the MeToo movement?

 

[DarkLight]

I was thinking more of the simple fact that it can be easier to follow strict rules, than to truly develop virtue. Virginity is an easy yes/no question for someone to ask themselves. A lot of other rules require a good development of prudence and the ability to avoid justifying yourself.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

The topic, unless I am mistaken, was a forum topic. I expressed a contradiction among women who support abortion, but yet follow the MeToo campaign. It was a general view. Which about every topic on a forum opens a question to: the public.

Most social movements are inclusive to people who support abortion just by virtue of being inclusive to people. That doesn’t automatically make them wrong, invalid, or contradictory. Again, your focus on abortion does nothing for pro-life women who fall victim to harassment.

 

[BoyGenius]

That doesn’t automatically make them wrong, invalid, or contradictory

Am I saying someone who might be mistaken on one point of view (morally) is necessarily wrong in another moral point of view? I think not. Could someone be wrong to say that stealing is wrong, but nonetheless they are for owning slaves (to use as an analogy from the time of southern owned slaves)? I am therefore not saying a women who is pro-choice (i.e. abortion) is wrong when she is against sexual harassment. However, there is a clear contradiction for if they want people to respect them (as people ought to, and should), for it very well falls into the standard and the norm (i.e. the Golden Rule) to treat the unborn in the utmost respect to their dignity, and not violate ti with abortion. And yes, that is a contradiction among those women.

Thus, yes, by contradiction, women who support abortion render harm to the helpless, but themselves do not want to be helpless to a predator. And that I find conflicting and contradictory. One question to ponder, do you think it is possibly sexually harassing a woman expecting a child when a man pressures her to get an abortion? I do. Because, pressuring her to do something against her own body, welfare, and dignity not only to herself, but also the small living creature in her womb, is harassing her to abort her child, Which nevertheless was formed through a pro-creative act.

 

[DarkLight]

I don’t think the topic specified who in the MeToo campaign this applied to (i.e. pro-life or non-pro-life.) But to the general public. And that is inclusive to those who support abortion. So, do you think in a forum soneone doesn’t have the right to call out that apparent contradiction of people in the MeToo movement?

I don’t think it’s an apparent contradiction, unless you’re counting every case where someone believes one thing that is right and another that is wrong as a contradiction - in which case every one of us is guilty. It seems more like a topic change: “People who support this also support other thing that’s bad, so we can’t take them seriously.”

I also think a lot of pro-life people fall victim to the idea that pro-choice people really believe that a fetus is a person, and have just decided that category of persons doesn’t count. In my experience, most pro-choice people simply believe a fetus is a potential person, not an actual person - usually due to some idea of consciousness or something similar being an integral part of being an actual person. Many actually find it very hard to understand how someone could see a fetus that doesn’t even have a brain yet as a human being in the relevant moral sense.