Have you ever gotten in trouble at your parish for doing what's right?

[Phemie]

I am almost certain her actions would be the common practice today had I not shook things up. The very sort of practice that is terribly difficult to eradicate. And so you know,** leaving the key in the tabernacle during Mass gives a TERRIBLE sign value. It’s a horrible practice.**

I have to ask how does leaving the key in the tabernacle during mass give terrible sign value? The tabernacle is still closed & locked and nobody can see the key.

Note that I would much prefer that the tabernacle not need opening until the Blessed Sacrament was put there after Communion but such is not the case here. I’d be satisfied if I didn’t have to have my heart in my throat as Fr. dumps the Blessed Sacrament from his ciborium into the EMHCs ciborium while standing in the aisle before he goes to sit down to watch said EMHC give Communion to the choir.

 

[jrabs]

ANY properly catechized Catholic Christian should know that walking away from an open tabernacle with the Blessed Sacrament exposed is WRONG. They should also know that leaving the key in it is WRONG.

And that is where you make your mistake. Not all folks have been privey to being properly catechized. And THAT is the sad fact.

Great that you are so knowledgeable. Fabulous - consider yourself blessed. But not all are. Goes back to my statement - you don’t know what you don’t know.

Thus I really believe your actions are aggressive and there was a better way to deliver the message the slamming and harsh words.

Plus I am not sure what the “terrible sign value” is in your opinion about the key in the lock? There is a priest present on the altar, no? He has not left the tabernacle open and unattended. So educate me - without harsh words.

 

[Brother_John]

I don’t think you guys should criticize the OP for reacting the way she did… After all, it was in the heat of the moment- righteous anger, if you will. As another poster said, “Hindsight vision is 20/20!”

While it was possibly heat of the moment, righteous anger, coming to CAF to boast about it certainly is inappropriate, if not sinful.

 

[Brother_John]

Notice the focus on PC manners and not on protecting the Blessed Sacrament.

I think Christ is plenty capable of taking care of his body and blood just fine.

Leaving the tabernacle open is not a good thing, but MANY churches leave the key in it, especially churches with multiple priests.

What, you afraid somebody is gonna sneak some of the Blessed Sacrement?

 

[Brother_John]

ANY properly catechized Catholic Christian should know that walking away from an open tabernacle with the Blessed Sacrament exposed is WRONG. They should also know that leaving the key in it is WRONG.

Sorry, pal…I have seen, hundreds of times, tabernacles left open during the distribution of Communion when other ciboriums were in use by extra priests or Eucharistic Ministers. You’re way off base.

 

[Brother_John]

It seems to me that you’ve come to CAF looking for “kudos” for acting like a jerk.

Ask yourself…or better yet, go take a peek at scripture…would Christ have behaved the way you did, then boast about it?

 

[jimmie]

I replied by slamming-down the key harshly on the counter and saying “Don’t you EVER treat the Blessed Sacrament as you just did! Not ever!” With that I walked out of the sacristy.

Call me crazy - but don’t we become the Body of Christ through our reception of the Eucharist? So don’t we need to be mindful of how we are treating the Body of Christ?

 

[Father_Tom]

Have you ever gotten in trouble at your parish for doing what’s right? I have, more than once.

One time in particular stands out. 15 minutes before Mass I’m just about the only person in church when a senior EMHC (a EMHC “Mass Leader” with supposedly a great deal of training) came out to check the number of consecrated hosts in the tabernacle. After checking she walks away with the tabernacle wide open and the key in it! What the heck? Colossal senior moment? Sleep walking? They had taken to leaving the key in the tabernacle a few weeks earlier (and one of us would always remove it and put in in the sanctuary on the credence), but this was way over the top.

Reverently I locked the tabernacle and removed the key. I walked into the sacristy and instruct the EMHC that the tabernacle should never be left open, unlocked and/or with the key in it. She glared at me and hissed “that was on purpose! It makes things easier during Mass!”

I replied by slamming-down the key harshly on the counter and saying “Don’t you EVER treat the Blessed Sacrament as you just did! Not ever!” With that I walked out of the sacristy.

I received the obligatory phone call from my pastor early that week, apologizing for what happened but that I needed to be more tactful in such situations and that I scared the woman. Thankfully the call ended there. 4-5 people “quit” being EMsHC because I was “not punished.”

Would I change a thing? Nope. To this day it has never repeated.

Your reasons for your behavior during this incident, however uncharitable, are clear.

What is not clear, is your purpose for bringing this event to the attention of the members of CAF.

What is it you are seeking by doing so?

Recognition? Blessing?

Please elaborate.

Thanks, Fr T

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

I think Christ is plenty capable of taking care of his body and blood just fine.

Leaving the tabernacle open is not a good thing, but MANY churches leave the key in it, especially churches with multiple priests.

What, you afraid somebody is gonna sneak some of the Blessed Sacrement?

That’s a bad argument, one of which I’ve come across in other discussions with my friends.

Christ may be able to take care of His Body and Blood, but that doesn’t mean our obligation to Him to protect Him ceases.

I trust President Bush could easily fight off an attacker, yet he still has armed guards with him constantly. Heck, even some mayors and many actors have guards. Why not Jesus?

 

[Walking_Home]

vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20050707_instrlabor-xi-assembly_en.html
True and proper liturgical signs and gestures, aimed at expressing faith in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, have been used in Church tradition, for example, the attentive purification of sacred vessels after communion, the steps to be taken when the Eucharistic species might accidentally fall to the floor, genuflections before the tabernacle, the use of the communion plate, the regular replacement of consecrated hosts reserved in the tabernacle, **the keeping of the tabernacle key in a secure place **and the celebrant’s composure and concentration in keeping with the transcendent and divine character of the Sacrament. **Omitting or neglecting any of these sacred gestures, which are significantly important externally, would clearly not contribute to preserving a sound faith in Christ’s Real Presence in the Sacrament. **The responses therefore suggest that the gestures and signs expressing faith in the Real Presence be included in a proper mystagogy and liturgical catechesis.

 

[Phemie]

While I’m well aware that the key is supposed to be kept secure, we’re talking about 15 minutes before Mass as the EMHC is preparing. Part of those preparations in our parish is making sure the bread and wine are at the back to be brought up in procession, putting the key in the tabernacle so that it’s there at communion time and making sure the chalices/lavabo bowl/towel/water are put out on the credence table. The sacristan is then present in the church until she puts everything away after Mass.

 

[Heckesh]

Your reasons for your behavior during this incident, however uncharitable, are clear.

What is not clear, is your purpose for bringing this event to the attention of the members of CAF.

What is it you are seeking by doing so?

Recognition? Blessing?

Please elaborate.

Thanks, Fr T

That’s an excellent question. I started this thread for a few reasons. First, I think I wanted to gauge the level of reverence versus gentility in my parish with other peoples’ experiences.

I also wanted to see how people would respond here. My slamming down the key and being intensely direct with that lady was done on purpose. I had not lost control. I wanted to create a scene, particularly after her response. Not a great many are willing to do that in the USA. They are more willing in other cultures, however.

There is a great deal of hand-wringing and complaining about deformations that have crept into the Church since VCII. Sometimes I wonder if some or much of this could have been avoided over the years if the faithful would have shown a greater level of outright courage and verbal indignation?

Last and least, I wanted to read about other people trials.

 

[Heckesh]

While I’m well aware that the key is supposed to be kept secure, we’re talking about 15 minutes before Mass as the EMHC is preparing. Part of those preparations in our parish is making sure the bread and wine are at the back to be brought up in procession, **putting the key in the tabernacle **so that it’s there at communion time and making sure the chalices/lavabo bowl/towel/water are put out on the credence table. The sacristan is then present in the church until she puts everything away after Mass.

That is an exceedingly horrid practice unless someone is continually guarding the tabernacle.

Even then the sign value to the faithful is just terrible. It sends the wrong message – convenience before reverence. Someone in your parish is assigned at each Mass to go to the tabernacle. Why not have that person put it in their pocket? It’s not that big of a deal to access a pocket even with vestments on.

 

[Father_Tom]

My slamming down the key and being intensely direct with that lady was done on purpose. I had not lost control. I wanted to create a scene, particularly after her response. Not a great many are willing to do that in the USA.

So, you freely admit that your actions were INTENDED to be uncharitable, which makes you a good Catholic or Christian in what way?

Were you attempting to illustrate the example set forth to us by Christ?

 

[Heckesh]

vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20050707_instrlabor-xi-assembly_en.html
True and proper liturgical signs and gestures, aimed at expressing faith in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, have been used in Church tradition, for example, the attentive purification of sacred vessels after communion, the steps to be taken when the Eucharistic species might accidentally fall to the floor, genuflections before the tabernacle, the use of the communion plate, the regular replacement of consecrated hosts reserved in the tabernacle, **the keeping of the tabernacle key in a secure place **and the celebrant’s composure and concentration in keeping with the transcendent and divine character of the Sacrament. **Omitting or neglecting any of these sacred gestures, which are significantly important externally, would clearly not contribute to preserving a sound faith in Christ’s Real Presence in the Sacrament. **The responses therefore suggest that the gestures and signs expressing faith in the Real Presence be included in a proper mystagogy and liturgical catechesis.

Ah, you beat me to it. Yes, the SIGN VALUE is huge during the Mass. That’s the very reason we are encouraged to receive Holy Communion under both species.

These little things really add-up after a while.

For a sacristan to stick the key in the tabernacle and have it there during the Mass is very bad sign value. I really have no idea why anyone would do it, except to make things a tiny bit easier for themselves. Even leaving it on the credence next to the sacred vessels would be far, far better from a sign value standpoint.

 

[jrabs]

I also wanted to see how people would respond here. My slamming down the key and being intensely direct with that lady was done on purpose. I had not lost control. I wanted to create a scene, particularly after her response. Not a great many are willing to do that in the USA. They are more willing in other cultures, however.

I think the delivery or your message was inappropriate. You would create a scene on purpose to deflate this woman?
There are not a great many who are willing to create scenes on purpose. AMEN to that!

Is it possible that there is some bad blood between you and this woman and this was your way of putting her in her place?

 

[Heckesh]

This thread brings out a very interesting matter.

The notion that a practice is OK because “everyone” or “many others” do it. It is so very sad to see people actually type that sort of response.

No, it’s not OK to leave the tabernacle open (unless it’s empty of the Blessed Sacrament.) No it’s not OK to leave the key in the tabernacle.

Again, just because others do it does not make it OK.

 

[stbruno]

You really think so?

Yup, but I gave the problem to God and you know what he said…if you are willing to pick up your cross and follow me, then I will carry yours. Come to me you who are burdened and I will give you rest. Thank you God…

I still bring up Hispanic ministry, not only within the parish but with our bishop. I hope the seed I am planting falls one day on fertile soil.

 

[Phemie]

Yup, but I gave the problem to God and you know what he said…if you are willing to pick up your cross and follow me, then I will carry yours. Come to me you who are burdened and I will give you rest. Thank you God…

I still bring up Hispanic ministry, not only within the parish but with our bishop. I hope the seed I am planting falls one day on fertile soil.

You really got nailed to a cross? I’ve heard that some volunteer for that on Good Friday.

 

[Heckesh]

I think the delivery or your message was inappropriate. You would create a scene on purpose to deflate this woman?
There are not a great many who are willing to create scenes on purpose. AMEN to that!

Is it possible that there is some bad blood between you and this woman and this was your way of putting her in her place?

Nope. I created the scene so people would know not to replicate her actions. Put them on the defensive so they would actually think about their actions, rather than dismissing someone’s valid concerns. It worked, when the dust settled, no one was doing what that lady did before the confrontation. While I am not 100% certain, I think that bringing-up this matter off-line with my pastor would have yielded zero results.

(While I knew this lady to nod my head and say “hello” in passing, that was it prior to this situation.)