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LongJourney
Guest
Yes. The more techniques that are used to demonstrate multiple recent authors, as well as plagiarism from Biblical and apocryphal sources, the better it gets, because they confirm each other.
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Returning_Home
Guest
Might the ‘inaccuracy’ in 3 Nephi be # Nephi 20:23-25 where the Mormon jesus mistakenly assigns Luke’s paraphrase (Acts 3:22-23) of Moses’ words (Deut 18:15) to Moses himself?
It was at that point that Parker put me on ignore; he simply couldn’t answer the question as to why this happened.
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Barbkw
Guest
Found some interesting info on Wiki about Kolob / Kobol:
Kolob as the inspiration for Kobol in Battlestar Galactica.
Some of the elements of the two Battlestar Galactica
science-fiction television shows seem to be derived
from the Mormon beliefs of its creator and chief producer,
Glen A. Larson.
In both the original series from 1978, and the 2003 new series,
the planet Kobol is the ancient and distant mother world
of the entire human race and the planet where life began,
and the “Lords of Kobol” are sacred figures to the human race.
They are treated as elders or patriarchs in the old series,
and versions of the Twelve Olympians in the new series.
According to Jana Riess, author of What Would Buffy Do?
“Kobol” is an anagram of “Kolob”, only one of many plot points
Larson has borrowed from Mormonism.
Also:
Kolob was the name of a short-lived record label/production
company founded by the Osmond Brothers in the 1970s.
Released in association with MGM Records
(which was absorbed by Polydor in 1976), the logo consisted
of a hand holding a ball of clay resembling the planet.
The Osmonds also recorded an album called The Plan which
deals with themes in Mormonism related to Kolob.
Zion National Park has a region known as Kolob Canyons.
Daniel Steven Crafts has a movement called The Great Arches of Kolob
in his Southwest Sinfonia, originally named after
Kolob Canyons in Zion National Park.
Kolob was also the name of the alien probe in the children’s sci-fi series
Children of the Dog Star, transmitted in 1984 in New Zealand.
In Levi Peterson’s The Backslider, released in 1986, the Mormon protagonist,
feeling distant from God, wonders
“how God is feeling this morning up on the royal star of Kolob.”
Kolob as the inspiration for Kobol in Battlestar Galactica.
Some of the elements of the two Battlestar Galactica
science-fiction television shows seem to be derived
from the Mormon beliefs of its creator and chief producer,
Glen A. Larson.
In both the original series from 1978, and the 2003 new series,
the planet Kobol is the ancient and distant mother world
of the entire human race and the planet where life began,
and the “Lords of Kobol” are sacred figures to the human race.
They are treated as elders or patriarchs in the old series,
and versions of the Twelve Olympians in the new series.
According to Jana Riess, author of What Would Buffy Do?
“Kobol” is an anagram of “Kolob”, only one of many plot points
Larson has borrowed from Mormonism.
Also:
Kolob was the name of a short-lived record label/production
company founded by the Osmond Brothers in the 1970s.
Released in association with MGM Records
(which was absorbed by Polydor in 1976), the logo consisted
of a hand holding a ball of clay resembling the planet.
The Osmonds also recorded an album called The Plan which
deals with themes in Mormonism related to Kolob.
Zion National Park has a region known as Kolob Canyons.
Daniel Steven Crafts has a movement called The Great Arches of Kolob
in his Southwest Sinfonia, originally named after
Kolob Canyons in Zion National Park.
Kolob was also the name of the alien probe in the children’s sci-fi series
Children of the Dog Star, transmitted in 1984 in New Zealand.
In Levi Peterson’s The Backslider, released in 1986, the Mormon protagonist,
feeling distant from God, wonders
“how God is feeling this morning up on the royal star of Kolob.”
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Pregustator
Guest
Mark Twain had a perspective on the Book of Mormon, which I echo:
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Returning_Home
Guest
The book Ancient America and The Book of Mormon by Milton Hunter and Thomas Stuart Ferguson was published by the Kolob Book Company in Oakland CA, 1950.
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PeanutBono
Guest
I don’t get your point here. In Deut 18 Moses is speaking of a prophet (Christ) that is to come, in Acts Christ quotes the prophesy from Deut 18 and states it is him who was prophesied about: and repeats this to the Nephites is 3rd Nephi.
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PeanutBono
Guest
Well this makes sense considering that through the Book word of Mormon Most of the writings are in 1st person although Mormon did interject a few thoughts into sections before Words of Mormon, but starting at the words of Mormon. Mormon the ancient Prophet abridged all of the writing and wrote in 3rd person. Then in Mormon he writes first person, then Ether is first person as this is a book about a people that came way before the nephites and then the final book is Moroni which is written in 1st person. Your graph seems to confirm this!
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Returning_Home
Guest
Unfortunately for you, the church has revised its opinion on just about everything over the years: the nature of God, the Furst Vision, polygamy, blacks holding the priesthood, and so on. What you have now is the current, whitewashed version of LDS history and doctrine, not the whole picture.
You state that the things we critics say don’t exist actually do. I assume you can list them and the sources that have confirmed exactly that, right? The only problem here is that FAIR and FARMS won’t count because they’re not exactly impartial and objective since they’re both likely funded by the church, directly or otherwise.
Before we get too far off topic, you should read the entire Cumorah thread if it’s still accessible. Not only are we able to prove over and over that the Hill Cumorah in New York is the one and only Hill, we can also prove that it has been made clear by the church and its leaders that it is indeed the one at which some 2.5 million people fought and died.
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PeanutBono
Guest
I don’t have the legend to the chart but much of 3rd Nephi should be 100% compared to the bible especially chapters 12-18 . your graph does not seem to indicate this but without the legend I may be missing something.
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JHow
Guest
I think this is the point: Nephi is a straight lift from Acts (KJV) not Deut (KJV).
Deuteronomy 18:15 (King James Version)
15The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Acts 3:22 (King James Version)
22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, ** A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.**
3 Nephi 20:23
23 Behold, I am he of whom Moses spake, saying: aA prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass that every soul who will not hear that prophet shall be cut off from among the people.
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PeanutBono
Guest
I am failing to see the error
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Returning_Home
Guest
I’m sure you are. The Mormon jesus is quoting words that hadn’t yet been written by someone that the fictional Nephites wouldn’t have known anything about. Not only that, but since the Bible as we know it wouldn’t be officially compiled until about 300 AD, some 270 years in the future, the ancient Americans wouldn’t have been able to relate because those words are Luke *paraphrase *of Moses’ words, summarizing them for another audience.
Now this wouldn’t be impossible for God, true, but the fact that the Mormon jesus assigns the to Moses when they are, in reality, Luke’s is a telling error. The person who wrote the BOM, Joseph Smith, didn’t know his Bible quite as well as he’d have us believe.
Not only that, but we find Luke’s paraphrase in Elizabethan English, would really puts this out of reach of the Nephite’s intellect since it wouldn’t be published for another 1,577 years.
Does that make sense PB&J?
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LongJourney
Guest
The legend is at the top of the chart!! There is some spotty evidence of Spalding early in III Nephi. Much of later III Nephi is a combination of Rigdon’s scripture salad and Bible. Spalding is red, Rigdon is blue, Bible is grey with black pinstripes.
As for the grammar errors in the BoM, if JS translated it, there would have been some of his characteristic grammar errors (translator effects) throughout. However, we see big changes in the type of grammar errors. Ergo, JS was not the “translator”, or the sole author.
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JHow
Guest
Yes. This simplest explanation for this is that the writer of Nephi copied the KJV text, because Nephi is not a translation of anything, it is a book written in the 19th century, copying a 17th century English Bible.
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PeanutBono
Guest
shouldn’t chapters 12 and 13 be 100% grey then?
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LongJourney
Guest
You are right. They come up as Rigdon mixes and Cowdery. But the Biblical wordprint is based on Isaiah/Malachi of the KJV.
Different translators were delegated to translate different section of the KJV. Again, translator effects.
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Esdra
Guest
Hi
I have another good site: www.restoredscriptures.com.
That’s from the RLDS Churches. I know, they are seen as heretics in the eyes of the LDS Utah Church, but I think this website is pretty good.
It also has a search function for the Inspired Version of the Bible by J. Smith btw.
If you have seen some posts from me concerning Mormons you already might have realised: I am fond of the RLDS Churches (esp. Community of Christ).
Esdra
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Esdra
Guest
Oh gettin’ a BoM is rather simple!
Just go to a LDS missionar. When they are out in the streets they have copies to gift in their rucksacks!
Or you buy the RLDS Version (other verse- und chapters than in the LDS Edition!) for $ 10!
Esdra
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LongJourney
Guest
So am I. They never bought into polygamy or BY, and many believe that JS started out good, but became a “fallen prophet,” Always much more moderate, and now mainstreaming and placing even the BoM on a much lower level of prominence.
It is usually very easy to find a BoM cheap in a used bookstore, and of course, they are also available in libraries and large bookstores. I understand that the RLDS now has an edition in modern English.
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Esdra
Guest
barkb:
I have always thought that Mormons themselves don’t refer themselves to be Christians?
They are, so they say, Saints.
I have read from an RLDS poster somewhere in the internet (not this forum!) writing: “One of the basic differences is that we don’t call ourselves Saints but Christians!”
**
EDIT: **So why should he write that if LDS Mormons see themselves as Saints and not as Christians…?
(Sorry my mistake: Now the sentence is correct!!)
Esdra
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