He who endures to the end will be saved!

[SHW]

i would not worry too much about TweetyMom, I have been reading her posts and many others to get a good fell of things here. Each person should focus on their own salvation and relationship with the Lord, for I see many teachers here in whom shoes I would not want to be in on the day I meet the Lord. You are correct to post what James has said though the Holy Spirit and maybe some will do as James said to avoid the warning in the second half of the verse.

**
Jesus chose to save us through His Church.** This is why He founded/built His Church before He returned to His Father in heaven Matthew 16:17-19, Ephesians 2:19-22. This is why His Church is the pillar (support) and ground (foundation) of the truth 1 Timothy 3:15. This is why His Church speaks for Him Luke 10:16. This is why if I do not listen to His Church and obey His Church, then He commands that I be treated as a heathen and a tax collector Matthew 18:17.

Hebrews 12:22-24
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to** the general assembly and church** of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,

This is speaking of Jesus’ Church on earth. All of these things in this passage describe His Bride which is His Church.

We are admonished to worship together in His Church. He never told anyone to read a Bible and then make up their own worship service in order to neglect His.

Hebrews 10:24-25
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

I’m happy to be in my own shoes.

 

[SHW]

God judges us by our deeds because those works are the evidence of a “saving faith”. Just as when James wrote “…that faith without works is dead” or “…I will shew thee my faith by my works”.

God judges all of our deeds whether good or bad/evil. A “saving faith” is a life lived in obedience to God’s commandments “until death.”

2 Corinthians 5:9-11
Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.

Galatians 6:7-9
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh (breaks God’s commandments) will of the flesh reap corruption (damnation/hellfire), but he who sows to the Spirit (does good works) will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart (sin).

Revelation 2:10
Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Jesus redeemed all men, but not all men will be saved and inherit eternal life.

Acts 14:21-23
And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” 23 So when they had appointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

 

[Rocket_Man]

The Lord paid the blood price for mankind’s freedom (collective redemption/salvation) from the consequences of Adam’s Sin. By His perfect sacrifice which He offered to His Father, He atoned for Adam’s Sin which had alienated all of mankind from God. His sacrifice reconciled all of mankind to God and this reconciliation now gives mankind hope of eternal life. It is not a guarantee of eternal life for every person.

Jesus Christ atoned not only for Adam’s sin but for the sins of all his children, past, present, and future.

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Rocket_Man]

God judges all of our deeds whether good or bad/evil. A “saving faith” is a life lived in obedience to God’s commandments “until death.”

Does your obedience and God’s judging them include all of these? This is a real question.

“And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”

“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven."

“Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two”

“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.”

“And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.”

“Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.”

“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;”

 

[SHW]

“In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”

This is in reference to accusations of misconduct against a person. The testimony of one person against another is not sufficient to prove the defendant’s guilt. Two or more witnesses must agree with the accuser in order to show proof of the defendant’s guilt.

Deuteronomy 17:6
Whoever is deserving of death shall be put to death on the testimony of two or three witnesses; he shall not be put to death on the testimony of one witness.

John 8:16-18
And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me. 17 It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.”

1 Corinthians 14:36-37
36 Or did the word of God come originally from you (Corinthians)? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 13:1-3
This will be the third time I am coming to you. “By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.” 2 I have told you before, and foretell as if I were present the second time, and now being absent I write to those who have sinned before, and to all the rest, that if I come again I will not spare— 3 since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you.

These Corinthians are not convinced that Paul was speaking the truth to them about the gospel in his two previous visits and in his previous epistle(s). They think that perhaps this is his own gospel and not the gospel of Jesus. So, the next time Paul visits them, he is going to bring two or three fellow Church leaders with him in order for them to testify to them that what he speaks is the truth. Paul wants to reassure them once and for all (by the testimony of two or three witnesses) that he speaks the truth to them.

Also, at his next visit, he will not spare the feelings of those who are now sinning again after their baptisms. He already warned them in his previous epistle(s), but they did not all heed his warnings, “that all persons who break God’s commandments after Baptism/justification are no longer righteous and so they will not inherit the kingdom of God” (unless they repent and obey until death). Matthew 3:8

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God (Baptized).

This is taken from the earlier epistle which we call 1 Corinthians. Some Corinthians that he had preached to on an earlier visit had repented and were baptized. However, in Paul’s epistle which we call 2 Corinthians, he is telling them that he will not spare any backsliders his wrath when he next visits them.

There must have been an even earlier epistle that was written to the Corinthians other than the one that we know today as 1 Corinthians as is evidenced by the following:

1 Corinthians 5:9-11**
I wrote to you in my epistle** not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person” (brother).

 

[SHW]

Jesus Christ atoned not only for Adam’s sin but for the sins of all his children, past, present, and future.

Jesus atoned on the cross for Adam’s sin and also atoned for every person’s personal sins that are on his/her soul at the time of his/her baptism. He also paid the blood price for the sins of mankind as a whole so that no more animal blood sacrifices would ever have to be continually offered for the forgiveness of our personal sins. Leviticus 4:21, Leviticus 5:1-9

However, our personal sins which we commit after baptism, for which we have repented, are now forgiven us by the re-presentation to His Father of His perpetual (once and for all) perfect offering of His Body and Blood by His priests during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass/Divine Liturgy.

Jesus’ priests of whom He is High Priest re-present the exact same sacrifice of Jesus on the cross in the same miraculous unbloody manner (His Body and Blood offered under the appearances of bread and wine) as He did offer Himself at His own Last Supper for the remission/forgiveness of our personal sins. This is not a new sacrifice nor is it a different sacrifice; it is the same exact sacrifice because it is a perpetual sacrifice Revelation 5:6. This miracle happens by the power of the Holy Spirit through the actions of His priests in the Mass/Divine Liturgy. This is done according to the commands of Jesus in Matthew 26:27-28 and Luke 22:19 and also to fulfill the prophecy of
Malachi 1:11
For from the rising of the sun, even to its going down (daily),
My name shall be great among the Gentiles (today in our present time);
In every place incense (during Mass/Divine Litugy) shall be offered to My name,
And a pure offering (Jesus’ Body and Blood under the appearances of Bread and Wine are re-presented to His Father during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass/Divine Liturgy);
For My name shall be great among the nations (throughout the world),”
Says the LORD of hosts.

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst…

John 6:53-55
Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed.

But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Father only gives those persons to Jesus whom He predestined. God knows who they are, but none of us can know with absolute certainty whether or not we are numbered among the predestined until we die 1 Timothy 3:5-7.
**
Before** the foundation (creation) of the world, God foresaw everything that would happen after He created the world.

He foresaw every single free will action of every single person whom He was going to create (from each person’s birth until each person’s death) before He created him/her. The persons whom He foresaw who would be obedient to His commandments until they died, these only did He predestine for eternal life. Therefore, He foreknew those who would be obedient to Him and work righteousness. Only these did He approve/predestine to inherit eternal life Acts 10:34-35. And only these whom He foreknew/predestined did He put into His hand, never to be snatched away John 10:27-29 Romans 8:29.

 

[SHW]

Does your obedience and God’s judging them include all of these? This is a real question.

“And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”

“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven."

“Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two”

“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.”

“And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.”

“Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.”

“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;”

These are all different ways, in the Semitic manner of speaking, of stressing the importance of the command to: **
Love your neighbor as yourself.** This is what all of these mean. Luke 10:27, Romans 13:8, 1 Timothy 5:8

 

[Rocket_Man]

These are all different ways, in the Semitic manner of speaking, of stressing the importance of the command to: **
Love your neighbor as yourself.** This is what all of these mean. Luke 10:27, Romans 13:8, 1 Timothy 5:8

In your quest for perfection, do you do all of them?

 

[guanophore]

I know that Jesus saved me and I am His.Sure would be scary to believe your story.

You make a very good point, Tweety. The doctrine of OSAS is based entirely upon the fear of not being saved. Those who developed it during the Reformation did so to refute fears that people had who lacked confidence in their position in Christ. Most of what precipitated this was poor teaching by the clerics living in Europe at the time. They did not teach the faithful that we can have moral certitude. On the contrary, they took advantage of people’s fears and used them as the basis for extortion.

The Apostles taught that we have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved, but that we do not come into our inheritance until we pass from this life. Until that happens, we can fall from grace, and fail to be united with it.

 

[tweetymom]

You make a very good point, Tweety. The doctrine of OSAS is based entirely upon the fear of not being saved. Those who developed it during the Reformation did so to refute fears that people had who lacked confidence in their position in Christ. Most of what precipitated this was poor teaching by the clerics living in Europe at the time. They did not teach the faithful that we can have moral certitude. On the contrary, they took advantage of people’s fears and used them as the basis for extortion.

The Apostles taught that we have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved, but that we do not come into our inheritance until we pass from this life. Until that happens, we can fall from grace, and fail to be united with it.

Number one I do not believe osas. I knoe that i am saved and that sometimes it is a daily struggle to stay there. It is not easy but praise be to God I’ve been working and know I have Jesus in my corner.

 

[MacDaddy]

It is the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Luke 13:23-24
Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”
And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able Matthew 7:13-14.

It is true that none of us deserved to be redeemed. We humans all inherited Adam’s Sin which made all of us sinners (except for Mary and Jesus). This is why redemption is His free gift to us. No human could ever redeem us from Adam’s Sin. None of our works could ever be holy enough to atone for Adam’s Sin which had alienated us from God (made us enemies of God). Only Jesus, who is both God and Man, could mediate our reconciliation with God. This is why He alone is called the “One Mediator,” but He also intercedes for us now Romans 8:27, and Christians are also strongly admonished to intercede on behalf of others 1 Timothy 2:1-3.

Jesus does not forsake us. We can choose to forsake him any time we desire. He will not force us to love Him.

What does “to love Him” mean?

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
EDIT for post space

Those who truly love Him and prove their love for Him by obeying His commandments until they die (they endure to the end) are approved by Him and they then inherit the crown of eternal life which He promised to only those who loved Him (obeyed Him) until the end of their lives Hebrews 5:9.

Matthew 24:12-13
And because lawlessness (sinfulness) will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end (of his life on earth) shall be saved.

I can’t agree; he who strived to enter the gate and were able to enter because they completely denied self. Once in their in the gate, will they then turn around to strive to leave? “He who began a good work will complete it till the day of the Lord”

Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. … For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace…But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification…But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you **derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. **23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6

"Truly, truly, I say to you,*** he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.*** John 5:24

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Romans 5:24

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Romans 8:2

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Romans 9:11

This is the God that never forsakes me and protects me and has given me eternal life and no one, including myself, is able to take me from my Fathers hand. All that the Father has give to the Son, He loses none and raises them on the last day. This is my God, my Lord and my Savior. I am so thankful to my Father who is in Heaven and for the Holy Spirit who teaches me about my Father ways and about the Son and for the Son who was willing to take my sin and nail it to the cross so when the Father sees me, He sees Jesus in me…praise God. Amen

 

[guanophore]

I was baptized and confirmed in the CC. My sealing didn’t occur until I was 29 years old and repented of my sinful life, asked Christ to save me from the wrath I deserved.

The recognition by the individual of what God has done does not change what He has done. I am glad that you were both able to come into the intheritance of that into which you were sealed in baptism. Better late than never! However, the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable, and the gift of the sealing of the HS given to you in baptism was not “taken back” by God just because you did not walk according to it.

Remember how many years it was between the time David was sealed and he actually came into his kingship?

 

[guanophore]

thank you again but nothing you have said has made any impression on me in a positive way.

It is regrettable that you cannot receive the genuine attempts of your brothers and sisters in Christ in a positive way. However, it is very hard for someone who has been victimized in the past to trust other people.

The ability to receive the Truth depends upon the condition of the heart of the one to whom it is given. As Jesus teaches in the parable of the seeds/soils, the heart that is ready to receive Him is the one that will bear much fruit. The fact that the Truth does not bring forth any good fruit in this situation is a reflection on the condition of the heart.

I don’t say this to you alone, Tweety, but it applies to all of us as a spiritual principle. As I have testified to you, I also was suffering from a similar hardness of heart, and got very angry and hurt when Catholics would tell me that I was outside of the Teachings of the Church. This was still the case only a short time ago when I joined CAF. I am pleased that they did not shrink back from the Truth, until I could come into it.

 

[tweetymom]

romans 14"4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up; for God is able to make him stand.

 

[MacDaddy]

**
Jesus chose to save us through His Church.** This is why He founded/built His Church before He returned to His Father in heaven Matthew 16:17-19, Ephesians 2:19-22. This is why His Church is the pillar (support) and ground (foundation) of the truth 1 Timothy 3:15. This is why His Church speaks for Him Luke 10:16. This is why if I do not listen to His Church and obey His Church, then He commands that I be treated as a heathen and a tax collector Matthew 18:17.

Hebrews 12:22-24
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to** the general assembly and church** of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,

This is speaking of Jesus’ Church on earth. All of these things in this passage describe His Bride which is His Church.

We are admonished to worship together in His Church. He never told anyone to read a Bible and then make up their own worship service in order to neglect His.

Hebrews 10:24-25
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

I’m happy to be in my own shoes.

I read the passage on Ephesian 2 and it is very good at defining what the church is, which is the collection of the saints and citizens that make up the household of God, which is the church I belong to. I believe it is worth noting that the text reads “having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets” with the word “built” having to do with building onto that which exists, which of course is Jesus, which is the foundation of the church I belong to. Being built or laid upon by the prophets and ALL of the apostles contradicts the Matthew 16 understanding as Peter being the foundation. If this were true, then should we not then toss out a large portion of Scripture because of the direct contradiction?

 

[guanophore]

But you are not Jesus

No, but he is representing the Teaching of Jesus that was committed to the Church. We are obligated to pass on this Teaching whole, and entire. We are not at liberty to excise the parts that do not comfort us.

You still are not Jesus and in doing so you are very rude. In all things do in LOVE. And that is what is missing in your so called admonishments. Oh and just because one does not agree with you doen’t mean you are rught and they are wrong.

1Co 13:6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.

Tweety, it seems that you are confusing love with affection and emotional warmth. It is not loving to confirm our brothers and sisters in error.

Your posts consistently rejoice in doctrine that departs from the Catholic faith. From our perspective, this is not loving. It is even more scandalous for a person who claims to be Catholic to do such things.

You are right, just because two people disagree does not mean one is right, and the other wrong. However, that is not the case here. What you are disagreeing with is not from any of the individuals here on CAF (though that is also the case) but with the doctrines of the Church, that were handed down to us by the Apostles. The HS has preserved the Church from error, so we are not at liberty to abandon these Truths in order to make you (or anyone) feel warm and fuzzy.

Nobody said you had to agree with ME.
But - you have to agree with Christ’s Church, which is the “pillar and foundation of truth” (1 Tim. 3:15).

On the contrary, elvisman, I think Tweety has consistently demonstrated that she does NOT have to agree with what the Apostles believed and taught. She has demonstrated that she can be a rebellious subject of the Roman Pontiff. She has demonstrated that it is possible to be Protestant, and pretend you are Catholic in your local parish and to the public in a Catholic forum.

 

[tweetymom]

romans 14"4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up; for God is able to make him stand.

 

[guanophore]

No I don’t, I agree with the Bible. Does it say Catholic Church?

For someone who claims to be Catholic, it is interesting that you seem motivated to repudiate that the Church of the NT is actually Catholic. Such denial of the heritage of the Church is part of the rebellion characteristic of the Reformation. It is a protesting activity.

The Church being the Catholic Church is not mentioned.

It is true that the use of the term formally as a title or a name did not develop for several decades. However, by the early second century it was in common use. we see the word “catholic” used first in the book of Acts to describe the One Church founded by Christ:

Act 9:31 So **the church throughout **all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had peace and was being built up. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it multiplied.

If you look at the Gk. words used here, you will find “kath holos”, transliterated as Catholic.

Neither are the words, Trinity or Bible, but you believe those things now, *don’t *you? These were words that came from the Catholic Church, which was already being called the Catholic Church in the 1st Century:

"Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Ummm, call me crazy, but I just don’t see, Baptist, Lutheran, Assemblies of God, Evangelical, Pentecostal or non-denominational in this or any other Early Church letter . . .

Sorry I have never seen Catholic Church mentioned.

Ummm . . . I just showed you - in the Letter of Ignatius to the Smyrneans 8:2 . . .

There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

Tweety, I am curious to know, why do you think that Ignatius, a direct disciple of the Apostles writing just after the book of Revelation was written, uses this term? Why do you think this was used for 1000 years by all Christians who adopted the Apostolic faith?

Ignatius is not in the Bible, He is just a man who had these thoughts. You know what elvis I respect you for what you think is true , But as for me I choose to believe the Bible period, not what ignatius wrote on what he thought or Joe Blow down the street. I do not critize you in you belief. I 100% believe the Bible and nowhere does it say Catholic. God Bless

No, Tweety, this is not a reference by “just a man who had these thoughts”. He is using the language of the Church, explaining the Teachings of the Apostles. He was a bishop, entrusted with the responsibility of preserving and promulgating what was entrusted to him by the Apostles.

You are criticizing our beliefs, Tweety. When you say that Catholic Bishops teaching the Apostolic faith are “just men with their thoughts” you insult our faith tradition. Luke used the word catholic to describe the Church. The descriptor stuck, and became a formal name.

 

[guanophore]

And in all these guan, it is the fire within that keeps burning that gives us our endurance. “Because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us”. (Romans 5:4)

Indeed, we are in agreement on this point. :extrahappy::dancing::clapping:

Where you have departed from the Apostolic Teaching is that the commission of a moral sin separates us from that fire, and grieves the HS, pushing Him away from us. That is why a person in mortal sin is unable to endure. Unless they are able to reconcile with God, they fail to gain their heavenly inheritance.

Why He would do the first work (reconciliation) why we were yet His enemy and then not do the second work (save us) now that we are His children? Do you get the much more?

Indeed, if we remain in Him we get the “much more” !

Those who begin in the Spirit and end in the flesh do not.

Was Paul confident of His salvation before His death? How about the others who longed for His appearing?

Yes, Paul was confident that He who began a good work in Him was faithful to complete it. Nevertheless, He does not consider that he has “arrived”. This attitude (having arrived) is what the Latin Rite calls the 'sin of presumption".

If he had already gained everything, why would he say "in order that I may gain Christ
and be found in him,’

Php 3:11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
Php 3:12 and be found in him,

This is what is called a “conditional” phrase. It indicates that a condition exists which must be met in order for the outcome to occur.

but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
Php 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.
Php 3:16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

Why does the Apostle, if he knows he is already in Christ, say "in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, "Php 3:9 ?
If it is not possible to find oneself no longer in Christ, what would be the point of such a statement?

If final salvation already belongs to Paul, why would he say " but I press on to make it my own"?

If he has already possessed it, as the Reformers claim, why does he say “Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own”.

We are saved past, present, and future. We are continually being saved. That is His promise and hope we have within.

It is very Catholic of you to say this.

It is possible that one may not be united with the promise that is the goal of one’s hope.

 

[tweetymom]

For someone who claims to be Catholic, it is interesting that you seem motivated to repudiate that the Church of the NT is actually Catholic. Such denial of the heritage of the Church is part of the rebellion characteristic of the Reformation. It is a protesting activity.

It is true that the use of the term formally as a title or a name did not develop for several decades. However, by the early second century it was in common use. we see the word “catholic” used first in the book of Acts to describe the One Church founded by Christ:

Act 9:31 So **the church throughout **all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had peace and was being built up. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it multiplied.

If you look at the Gk. words used here, you will find “kath holos”, transliterated as Catholic.

There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

Tweety, I am curious to know, why do you think that Ignatius, a direct disciple of the Apostles writing just after the book of Revelation was written, uses this term? Why do you think this was used for 1000 years by all Christians who adopted the Apostolic faith?

No, Tweety, this is not a reference by “just a man who had these thoughts”. He is using the language of the Church, explaining the Teachings of the Apostles. He was a bishop, entrusted with the responsibility of preserving and promulgating what was entrusted to him by the Apostles.

You are criticizing our beliefs, Tweety. When you say that Catholic Bishops teaching the Apostolic faith are “just men with their thoughts” you insult our faith tradition. Luke used the word catholic to describe the Church. The descriptor stuck, and became a formal name.

PLease do not critize me one more time I will report you thank you and God Bless. Exactly what do you see by my name?