Healthy contraception ?

[mikew262]

Faithbound:

Everybody who has posted here is well meaning (including me). Some of my advice strayed from the official “Catholic” position, and I got blasted for it. I expected it, but I thought you needed some unbiased advice as well.

As Catholics, you should strive to adhere to Catholic Doctrine as much as you can. Talk to your priest and get the best medical advice possible. Pray and seek God’s guidance. He will lead you to the right decision, whatever that may be.

Good Luck and God Bless!

 

[AlbertaRose]

setter:

See my amended post – If future pregnancy poses a serious/lethal health risk to the mother, then any form of ABC or NFP leaves open the possibility of pregnancy. To give the poster 100% CERTAINTY of no chances of pregnancy with NFP is misleading, however minute the chance of pregnancy when properly used.

If you have already ovulated in the cycle, and have allowed for the possibility of 2 or 3 eggs being released at that time, and allowed for 24 hours for each egg to die off, then the period after ovulation until the beginning of the next menstrual cycle is safe. Again it goes back to knowing the rules and strictly adhering to them.

You have to know how to difinitively identify ovulation.

 

[TZiggy]

LeahInancsi:

After reading your question carefully, I don’t see that your wife’s life had been at risk in the last two pregnancies. If she wants to contracept, it’s possibly because see doesn’t want to endure the suffering involved with difficult pregnancies. That’s a pretty lame reason for artifical contraception.

In this case, I would recommend NFP and consult medical specialists on how to prevent any future pregnancies from the difficulties encountered with the 2nd and 3rd pregnancies.

If your wife’s life were truly at jeopardy, I would tell you to follow your conscience since three children would be left without a mother. As it is, I think you still have viable alternatives before you turn to artificial contraception.

How about a little Charity here???
Are you personally in this situation?
Do you understand at all what it feels like?
Try asking questions before making assumptions, and understand there are medical reasons that allow for morally acceptable use of hormone therapy. Albeit contraception isn’t one of them.
Your post is harsh.

 

[Corki]

kamz:

are you seriously suggesting the op should abstain for good??

I think that is totally wrong, if I did that to my husband I know at some point my marriage would suffer greatly.

The op really needs to post this question to ask an apologist.

Let’s try to be christian and charitable

Abstinence isn’t something you DO to someone. It is a choice you make together. There are many reasons that a **couple ** might choose abstinence. Women are not always capable of conceiving. So abstinence is only a consideration during those times when she is able to conceive. If it is really important to avoid or postpone pregnancy, those times can be calculated using one of the NFP methods or you can just wait it out (menopause).

Lack of sex will hurt your marriage only if you (plural) believe that it is THE most important thing in your marriage. If you value your love and life more than your passion, periodic abstinence does not have to be detrimental and (like many types of adversity) even strengthen the bond.

 

[kamz]

Corki:

Abstinence isn’t something you DO to someone. It is a choice you make together. There are many reasons that a couple might choose abstinence. Women are not always capable of conceiving. So abstinence is only a consideration during those times when she is able to conceive. If it is really important to avoid or postpone pregnancy, those times can be calculated using one of the NFP methods or you can just wait it out (menopause).

Lack of sex will hurt your marriage only if you (plural) believe that it is THE most important thing in your marriage. If you value your love and life more than your passion, periodic abstinence does not have to be detrimental and (like many types of adversity) even strengthen the bond.

I’m not talking about abstince during fertile times, I was asking if it meant abstinence until the woman was no longer fertile, like even if that meant 20 years??? I’m sorry, my husband would object if I told him that we would not have sex until I hit menopause, I’m 31 for goodness sakes, that is what I was talking about, like years and years and if you don’t mind that is fine, I have already stated that personally I could go without sex for the rest of my life and not mind it one bit but my Lutheran husband most certainly would have a problem going one year let alone 20

 

[vluvski]

Personal experience:
My mother nearly died when she was pregnant with my brother. While she would love to have more, the reality of her high risk pregnancy has guided my parents to periodic abstinence with NFP in order to avoid indefinitely.

My brother will be 11 this year, and there have been no surprise pregnancies. They had practiced NFP from the beginning of their marriage, which undoubtedly helped in knowing how to interpret the signs. They have been married for 28 years. She has admitted that it has been hard at times, but my parents love for one another and us kids is great enough to overcome the difficulty of abstaining to follow only the most conservative NFP rules.

Find an NFP method you’re comfortable with, and try it out for awhile. Unlike other forms of contraception, it is not permanent and YOU control how effective it will be in avoiding a pregnancy.

Peace!

 

[johntkd]

kamz:

I’m not talking about abstince during fertile times, I was asking if it meant abstinence until the woman was no longer fertile, like even if that meant 20 years??? I’m sorry, my husband would object if I told him that we would not have sex until I hit menopause, I’m 31 for goodness sakes, that is what I was talking about, like years and years and if you don’t mind that is fine, I have already stated that personally I could go without sex for the rest of my life and not mind it one bit but my Lutheran husband most certainly would have a problem going one year let alone 20

Most men have serious problems with any kind of abstinence.
sexual issues are the number one cause of divorce in the USA.
finance is next.

you make it sound like your husband has a disease because he is Lutheran, Lutheran and Catholic are so close its almost funny.

Now to original poster, relize this! you and your wife need to sit down and talk this out, talk with a priest, whom can give you contact info for an experienced NFP teacher,thats option #1
after talking with this NFP teacher you may have to use other options anyways.depending on her medical condition.

also relize what lots of people tell you or demand you to do is not always what they themselves would follow if they were in your shoes, but it sounds real good on the forum.

as a previous user of ABC I can say they are not 100% and other things can contribute to them reducing effectivness such as the #1 reason women become pregnant on the pill…antibiotics.
so that “danger” still exists.

Just like normally I would say that to me My family is always #1
so I would step up and get sterilized, however I wont say that on this forum as it would probably get me banned on the basis that I am giving a recommendation that is against the church.
because they want us to put God first and Family second,
which i am unable to do.I have faith,but My family is still my first responsibility, if this causes me to be condemned to hell then I guess i deserve it and accept it as well.because I will not ask forgiveness for putting my Family first, I feel no need to,
I am 3rd in the line of what I care about…

good luck to you in finding your answers
John

 

[johntkd]

kamz:

OH, I understand what your saying

I know myself I could easily abstain without any problems but my husband would not be so cool about that, he takes it so personally, he assumes it means I don’t love him or want to be with him, I know thats sounds dumb, but in that area he is very low self esteem and he takes it totally wrong. But I can see totally abstaining during her fertile times but they first need to go to a really good class so they can learn about “when” her really fertile times are, so many people haven’t any idea, so I would try to find a really good NFP class and until then I would abstain until we totally understood what we were doing.

For NFP to be effective both parties HAVE to be in agreement, If only one wants it then in fact its a denial to the other and will most likely cause major issues, I have seen it over and over again.
women who use the saying well if you loved and cared for me,well thats works for a while with most men then they get sick of it,then the hashing out well you agreed to do this a long time ago arguement, when in reality they were guilted into agreeing…

make darn sure you talk about it forst and are in total agreement or it will cause big problems.
remember the biggest reasons for divorce in the USA are sexually related. the #2 reasons are financial.
sex shouldnt be the most important thing in a marriage, even though its the most talked about and worried about by the church

But it also shouldnt be used a “potty” treat either.
Be adult about dealing with these things.
and make it a mutual decision that can be lived with by both.
will save a lot of problems down the road…
John

 

[pira114]

As far as I know, if the “contraception” is intended to save the life of the mother, and not necessarily just to prevent pregnancy, then it’s O.K.

At any rate, I would do whatever it took to protect the life of my wife if I were in this situation. Take that for what it is.

 

[kamz]

johntkd:

Most men have serious problems with any kind of abstinence.
sexual issues are the number one cause of divorce in the USA.
finance is next.

you make it sound like your husband has a disease because he is Lutheran, Lutheran and Catholic are so close its almost funny.

Now to original poster, relize this! you and your wife need to sit down and talk this out, talk with a priest, whom can give you contact info for an experienced NFP teacher,thats option #1
after talking with this NFP teacher you may have to use other options anyways.depending on her medical condition.

also relize what lots of people tell you or demand you to do is not always what they themselves would follow if they were in your shoes, but it sounds real good on the forum.

as a previous user of ABC I can say they are not 100% and other things can contribute to them reducing effectivness such as the #1 reason women become pregnant on the pill…antibiotics.
so that “danger” still exists.

Just like normally I would say that to me My family is always #1
so I would step up and get sterilized, however I wont say that on this forum as it would probably get me banned on the basis that I am giving a recommendation that is against the church.
because they want us to put God first and Family second,
which i am unable to do.I have faith,but My family is still my first responsibility, if this causes me to be condemned to hell then I guess i deserve it and accept it as well.because I will not ask forgiveness for putting my Family first, I feel no need to,
I am 3rd in the line of what I care about…

good luck to you in finding your answers

                                   John

I beg your pardon, the LCMS church would beg to differ, in fact my husbands minister and I have had some major discussions and he has made it crystal clear that the LCMS is not even close to the Catholic faith, this is not the time to get into this but I know many LCMS people who are totally anti Catholic, anyways, my point is that my husband as a Lutheran does not believe that contraception is wrong, you see the Lutheran church does not take a stand against bc like the Catholic church does so we have my idea of what is right and wrong and my husbands idea of what is right and wrong, and yes, I believe that the only church is the Catholic church, I have a right to my opinion so if I am irritated that my husband is Lutheran and that he and I don’t see eye to eye on the bc issue, that is also my right, this is my life, I am leading it and you don’t know what my life is like and I find your post very hurtful to me.

 

[anna1978]

AlbertaRose:

I don’t agree with that. With NFP you can be CERTAIN that you have ovulated so in Phase III of you cycle, you can be assured that you wouldn’t get pregnant. But you have to get proper instruction and be highly motivated to follow the rules to the T.

AlbertaRose

Absolutely! I’m sure it works for most people, and you soon get the hang of it.

However, from a personal point of view: my NFP-teacher made me realise that I have 2 ‘safe’ days between my period and the onset of cm…and around 5 ‘safe’ days a couple of days after peak-day before my next period. That makes for 7 days in the whole month…and although she is VERY conservative in her judgment of what constitutes a ‘safe day’, I do agree with her…because my body seems to take an awful long time to gear up for ovulation, and no amount of medication has so far ‘fixed’ this hormonal imbalance. Needless to say, 7 days to ‘play’ with, at a time of the month where I suffer PMT and we are as-good-as-abstaining. So, I do understand the OP in that sense. I also agree with the man who said ‘I wonder how many of you have been in this situation’…

Anna x

 

[AlbertaRose]

anna1978:

Absolutely! I’m sure it works for most people, and you soon get the hang of it.

However, from a personal point of view: my NFP-teacher made me realise that I have 2 ‘safe’ days between my period and the onset of cm…and around 5 ‘safe’ days a couple of days after peak-day before my next period. That makes for 7 days in the whole month…and although she is VERY conservative in her judgment of what constitutes a ‘safe day’, I do agree with her…because my body seems to take an awful long time to gear up for ovulation, and no amount of medication has so far ‘fixed’ this hormonal imbalance. Needless to say, 7 days to ‘play’ with, at a time of the month where I suffer PMT and we are as-good-as-abstaining. So, I do understand the OP in that sense. I also agree with the man who said ‘I wonder how many of you have been in this situation’…

Anna x

I didn’t say that there would be a LOT of days. I’m just saying that in dire circumstances it WOULD work. I have been in this situation. There are Catholics in China who use NFP in a case where babies would be forcibly aborted at 8.5 months of pregnancy causing the death of the baby and likely the mother. They have high motivation to use NFP and those with serious motivation tend to do so effectively.

Thanks for your comment.

AlbertaRose

 

[jrabs]

pira114:

As far as I know, if the “contraception” is intended to save the life of the mother, and not necessarily just to prevent pregnancy, then it’s O.K.

I am curious if you read any of previous posts. Only NFP is allowed in the Catholic Church.

 

[setter]

Most men have serious problems with any kind of abstinence.

Extrapolation based on your personal sampling or do you have a study to back up this assertion? Most faithful and serious Catholic men should NOT be having “serious problems with any kind of abstinence”. See these CCC citations regarding the the virtue of chastity and the apprenticeship in self-mastery befitting to a Catholic man, married or otherwise:

Self-mastery is a long and exacting work

. One can never consider it acquired once and for all. It presupposes renewed effort at all stages of life. The effort required can be more intense in certain periods, such as when the personality is being formed during childhood and adolescence. (CCC 2342)

Chastity includes an *apprenticeship in self-mastery *

which is a training in human freedom. The alternative is clear: either man governs his passions and finds peace, or he lets himself be dominated by them and becomes unhappy. “Man’s dignity therefore requires him to act out of conscious and free choice, as moved and drawn in a personal way from within, and not by blind impulses in himself or by mere external constraint. Man gains such dignity when, ridding himself of all slavery to the passions, he presses forward to his goal by freely choosing what is good and, by his diligence and skill, effectively secures for himself the means suited to this end.” (CCC** 2339**)

sexual issues are the number one cause of divorce in the USA.
finance is next.

Depending upon which study you source, study variables of number years of marriage, subsequent remarriage, … are all variables that affect the identified primary “reason” for divorce. What these studies often fail to study are the underlying causes for divorce, of which time, sexual and lifestyle incompatability, money, etc, are but symptoms. I tend to agree with the below article (see link) that a more sophistocated analyses reveals lack of communication and the inability and/or unwillingness to put one’s spouse and marriage first before self and other competing factors.

Now to original poster, relize this! you and your wife need to sit down and talk this out, talk with a priest, whom can give you contact info for an experienced NFP teacher,thats option #1
after talking with this NFP teacher you may have to use other options anyways

.depending on her medical condition.
What “other options” are there other than abstinence that do not offend the dignity of one’s spouse and God?

also relize what lots of people tell you or demand you to do is not always what they themselves would follow if they were in your shoes, but it sounds real good on the forum.

All that forum members can do in good conscience is offer sound and authoritative Church teaching as the only charitable and compassionate suggestions. Subjective experience does not change what is charitable and good for all Catholic married couples regardless of the specific personal challenges confronting them.

Just like normally I would say that to me My family is always #1
so I would step up and get sterilized, however I wont say that on this forum as it would probably get me banned on the basis that I am giving a recommendation that is against the church.
because they want us to put God first and Family second,
which i am unable to do.I have faith,but My family is still my first responsibility, if this causes me to be condemned to hell then I guess i deserve it and accept it as well.because I will not ask forgiveness for putting my Family first, I feel no need to,
I am 3rd in the line of what I care about…

Funny how you pit God against Family as if there is a competition for loyalties of what is in the best interest of one’s family. What this disorted perspective needs is a conversion of heart and mind to establish/restore such a Catholic/Christian marriage on the foundation rock of Jesus Christ.

BTW – You are correct that there are no “medical reasons” for direct sterilization (i.e., sterilization for the primary intended purpose to render sterility).

 

[1ke]

pira114:

As far as I know, if the “contraception” is intended to save the life of the mother, and not necessarily just to prevent pregnancy, then it’s O.K.

This is incorrect.

If a medical treatment for a disease or physical ailment has the effect of temporary or permanent sterility it is not prohibited. For example, cancer treatments can cause sterility. The goal is to treat the cancer, not cause sterility.

There is not such thing as “contraception” to save the life of the mother. The purpose of contraception is contraception. That is not the same as treating a disease with a medicine that causes sterility as an unintended side effect. In this scenario you propose, sterility is the targeted outcome-- this is never acceptable.

 

[Seatuck]

pira114:

As far as I know, if the “contraception” is intended to save the life of the mother, and not necessarily just to prevent pregnancy, then it’s O.K.

At any rate, I would do whatever it took to protect the life of my wife if I were in this situation. Take that for what it is.

No this is incorrect. The Pill or other form of hormonal birth control is allowed if there is a medical condiditon present that it is used to treat. It is not allowed in the condition you describe.

 

[Seatuck]

faithbound:

My wife had major complications with our 2nd child and that was 6 years ago, and with our 3rd child, even worse to where our baby girl was born after 6 mo. at 2lbs. 2oz. but THANKS to God she’s doing great now at age 2. My problem is that my wife wants to use contraception now for fear of her life if she should get pregnant again and I’m on the fence on which way to go. I know that God disapproves but then again I don’t want to jeopordise my wifes health. I need help, please.

Thanks be to God for the life of your wife and those two blessings he gave to you and your wife.

You are concerned about you wife’s well being as well you should be. You have two options as far as church teaching . One is total abstinence. You can get spiritual advice on this and learn how to please each other in non sexual ways to stay close. It’s been done by many of couples since the beginning of time… 2) NFP
You should do you best to study up on all the NFP methods and follow them strictly. There are classes to take and you can get counselors to go over charts and methods. The names of the methods are SymptoThermal, Billings and there is another called standard days I believe.Be aware NFP is not what people out there call the rythm method . What we have today is much better.

Pray , Pray , Pray.

www.ccli.org

Call your diocese and ask what classes they have available.

 

[setter]

johntkd:

For NFP to be effective both parties HAVE to be in agreement, …

make darn sure you talk about it forst and are in total agreement or it will cause big problems.

But it also shouldnt be used a “potty” treat either.
Be adult about dealing with these things.
and make it a mutual decision that can be lived with by both.
will save a lot of problems down the road…

I am not sure what road you are suggesting that couples head down but I do hear you recommending Catholic couples “be adult” and optionally morally licit in their “mutual decision” making. This will absolutley NOT save alot of problems down the road if they make morally illicit decisons for their married life together. To suggest or recommend to a Catholic couple immoral sin options as a “solution” to a challenge confronting their married life together is at best hellish advice. :tsktsk:

 

[mikew262]

Setter, are you married?

 

[setter]

mikew262:

Setter, are you married?

A reference to the primacy of subjective personal experience as the paramount criteria to speaking with authority in matters of faith and morals? Disclosure of personal information is not relevent to the discussion at hand.

I can see how one would ask the Pope such a question as a basis for over ruling the Church in favor of personal subjectively formed and informed conscience.