Heaven cannot be timeless

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In a world full of people who never stop moving - their perpetual motion is the thing which remains constant, unchanging, timeless.

If they stopped moving, THAT would be the change.

I think you are guilty of special pleading about what “must” be in order for heaven to be considered timeless.
 
What is time?

What is Heaven?

What if you and I experience a time that is linear.

But what if in the heavenly dimension, time is not linear.

What if in heavenly time, if time was curved, then what if you could step from today to a hundred years ago or if you could step from today to a hundred years in the future.

You and I live in four dimenisons.

What if there are ten dimensions. Or eleven.
 
Human logic…

So basically if God wanted to he can transcend time. Even science suggests time is not truly constant in the grand scheme of things. While you can not personally transcend time, it doesn’t mean it cannot be done.

Jesus turned water into wine, within physics if one could control atoms than this is clearly possible. I cannot control atoms… doesn’t mean it isn’t a thing.

So in Heaven if given the ability a soul under the grace of God could simultaneously be here and there. Could see the final kindgom and the past of creation. Science has proven things can be in multiple places at once, science has proven that time is not constant… sooooo yeah everything can be everything both linear and transcendent at the same time. Can you not think of the universe in its entirety even while standing on a speck within it? And we are frail and lacking in transcendence. Imagine if you will picturing and comprehending the past history of the earth, the universes existence, the present, and the future… now imagine you can actually be there instead of just understanding them. The linear observation of time is then not an issue.

I would note if you cannot grasp the science that of times lack of consistency then grasping the heavenly state would be difficult to say the least. If you cannot grasp the science of electrons being in multiple places at once, the concept of altering atomic make up of things, etc… then that is why the church has the teachings that can be followed by those that are not equipped to understand things on their own in a sense. Theologically if one were to transcend to a level of understanding beyond human limits, at some point there would not be a “God doesn’t make sense to MY logic” but rather a “God makes sense to THE logic”.
 
Bahman said:
Yes.

It is a metaphysical requirement because you cannot have changes in a timeless thing.

It does of course change.
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Not if Heaven is simultaneously here and there. So in Heaven they are already in the end of time, the final kindom. If Bahman is destined to Heaven for example, then you are ALREADY there right now… you have always been because Bahman can be in the beginning and the end While being here and now. It has already come to pass but also hasn’t happened. Not predestined, just outside of time… like watching multiple tv screens of cameras, it all happens at once even if you can only view them compartmentalized. If you could fly in a helicopter you could maybe see them all at once… but not 400 miles away and so on… so you have a constant new way to see more of everything at once with the final true “Birdseye view” being heaven.
 
LethalMouse said:
Not if Heaven is simultaneously here and there. So in Heaven they are already in the end of time, the final kindom. If Bahman is destined to Heaven for example, then you are ALREADY there right now… you have always been because Bahman can be in the beginning and the end While being here and now. It has already come to pass but also hasn’t happened. Not predestined, just outside of time… like watching multiple tv screens of cameras, it all happens at once even if you can only view them compartmentalized. If you could fly in a helicopter you could maybe see them all at once… but not 400 miles away and so on… so you have a constant new way to see more of everything at once with the final true “Birdseye view” being heaven.
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That is totally nonsense. How I could be right in Heaven now without experiencing it!?
 
Bahman said:
What is the meaning of timeless?
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In the context of this discussion, timeless means literally without time. As another poster pointed out, time is part of creation. Heaven is not part of creation so time is not experienced there the same as it is here. Once you can wrap your head around that concept, hopefully things will fall into place for you.
 
seagal said:
In the context of this discussion, timeless means literally without time. As another poster pointed out, time is part of creation. Heaven is not part of creation so time is not experienced there the same as it is here. Once you can wrap your head around that concept, hopefully things will fall into place for you.
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I thought Heaven was part of creation.
paduard
 
Bahman said:
What is the meaning of timeless?
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Perhaps you ought to consider such things before writing an Op that makes declarations about the word “timeless”.

“…this is simple”

:cool:
Bahman said:
This is simple: The state of Heaven is subjected to change because individuals are going there. The timeless Heaven cannot change. Hence Heaven cannot be timeless.
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seagal said:
In the context of this discussion, timeless means literally without time. As another poster pointed out, time is part of creation. Heaven is not part of creation so time is not experienced there the same as it is here. Once you can wrap your head around that concept, hopefully things will fall into place for you.
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Timeless implements changeless. State of Heaven however changes when an individual enters there hence Heaven cannot be timeless.
 
Lion_IRC said:
Perhaps you ought to consider such things before writing an Op that makes declarations about the word “timeless”.

“…this is simple”

:cool:
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I know the meaning of timeless. I just want to know his/her opinion.
 
Bahman said:
Timeless implements changeless. State of Heaven however changes when an individual enters there hence Heaven cannot be timeless.
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You’re still trying to apply the laws of a material world to a spiritual one.
 
seagal said:
You’re still trying to apply the laws of a material world to a spiritual one.
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You believe that you enter to timeless Heaven. Don’t you? You know what timeless means. Don’t you?
 
seagal said:
Do you know the difference between material and spiritual?
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Yes. Spiritual is not subjected to time and space. I have no idea how it could be real.

By the way, why we are given a new body upon resurrection if Heaven is not space and time bound?
 
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