First of all I wish to thank most here for the cordial way you are speaking to me and how the lack of ad-hominem attacks against me personally are lacking. I try to understand that an attack against what I believe can lead to a more biblical understanding of scripture. Now with this in mind I do not want to totally separate my beliefs from myself because if I am conveying true simple exegesis of His Word, the attack is against God Himself. So let us strive to convey what a text of scripture says with the idea that His Word (the bible) is conveying a single thought of meaning.
So Earl, here’s the problem we instantly run into: how is the Bible to be interpreted? You see, it is very obvious to anyone who discusses scripture that the bible can be interpreted in different ways by well meaning people. And we all read scripture through the lenses of the Traditions we believe. As an example, Calvinist will understand Romans 9 to indicated that people are predestined prior to birth to be either saved or condemned because that is how Calvin read that passage and it has been passed down that way from Generation to Generation. Catholic tradition, however teaches that while some men are predestined for heaven, all men have the opportunity to be saved and so we read those passages to say that God bears with great patience the objects of his wrath (those that turn away from God through sin) - prepared for distruction. You see, it doesn’t have to mean that he predestined them to Hell. After all, earlier in the letter, Romans 2, Paul says the following:
1* Therefore, you are without excuse,a every one of you who passes judgment.* For by the standard by which you judge another you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the very same things. 2We know that the judgment of God on those who do such things is true. 3Do you suppose, then, you who judge those who engage in such things and yet do them yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?b 4Or do you hold his priceless kindness, forbearance, and patience in low esteem, unaware that the kindness of God would lead you to repentance?c 5By your stubbornness and impenitent heart,d you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, 6e who will repay everyone according to his works:* 7eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, 8but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.f 9Yes, affliction and distress will come upon every human being who does evil, Jew first and then Greek. 10g But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, Jew first and then Greek. 11* h There is no partiality with God.
So Earl, how do we arbitrate how to understand the letter to the Romans? Doesn’t it go back to the credibility of the Traditions through which we understand these verses? We would say that Catholic tradition was initiated by Jesus through the Apostles and we can show through the writings of the Early Church Fathers that it has been understood the same way throughout the centuries. Calvin, on the other hand, was clear that he was the one that came up with his particular brand of theology and his followers call themselves Calvinists as a result. Why is his understanding of this more credible than that which was taught exclusively for 1500 years prior to his birth?
I agree that we (those that believe and will eventually believe in Him) were created for a purpose. That is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. This I think we agree on. Now if so you will note I said “enjoy” and this does not mean everyone will enjoy Him in Hell.
I do indeed note that you said “enjoy” and I wonder how you came up with that. While it is true that there is joy in heaven, that is a by product of fulfilling our purpose, not the purpose itself. Our purpose is very clear in scripture. It is the great commandment: Love God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself. And by love, I mean serving God and neighbor selflessly. If you doubt this, read 1 Corinthians 13.
Those that end up there will glorify God without joy by displaying the just judgement they deserve. this also was His purpose (or will) as in Romans 9 it says…
“22 What if God, although** choosing **to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—”
I must admit, I don’t understand what you are driving for here. Can you clarify?
